highlander68k

Agreed.

We don't know the full story and many of us are making assumptions.

It has been known for bankers drafts to be cleared, the money spent, and the bank comes back weeks later identifying a problem. The car (or whatever) is nowhere to be found and the seller is left with a monster bill.

pslewis

Sorry, but thats complete rubbish!!

I will repeat what I said previously, the bankers Draft is the BANKS money drawn on the BANKS own account!!

NOTHING can go wrong with that!!

There is no ifs, no buts, no maybes ...... get confirmation that the draft is genuine and you are holding the securest form of payment known to man!!

Pete

mart360

buy a fake note pen, fan the notes, and run a line down them

fakes spotted before deposit

M

jbwrx300

Pete, agreed -

Financial Services Compensation scheme
Banking Code
Financial Services Authority
Anti Money Laundering Regulations

4 reasons why a bank can't come back to a customer when IT has issued a draft. If there are suspicions about the source of money or funds aren't available, the draft can't be issued as a draft is made up of real time cleared funds in the customer's account - then transferred to the branch's holding account, which is also done real time.

Not wanting to be too harsh on the chap who has just been done over - but who would honestly part with several grands worth of car on what is basically an uncleared cheque until you have confirmed its authenticity with the issuing bank. Its common sense FFS.

If its a fake draft obviously it wont clear, dont hand over the goods, no problem.

I suspect that those who know people who have said the bank have been billed over a bank draft dispute have actually been done in another manner but are too embarrassed to admit it.

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Awful. Feel very sorry for the chap.

Personally, I'd insist on Chaps transfer now and wouldn't release the car untill the funds had cleared!

Sad that you have to go to such lengths.

NS04

Scoobychick

iTrader: (1)

I sell boats for a living and prefer CHAPS payments, the keys don't get handed over until the money is in my account.

However I'm a legit business with a separate Client Account for these transactions. If you were buying a car from Joe Public and set up a CHAPS payment then I suppose there is always the possibility that Joe could do a runner with your money and the car once the payment was in the system. I'd want to see proof of address and ID before setting up such a payment for a car.

bioforger

iTrader: (1)

Yeh CHAPS is pretty much as secure as you can get. As the cash xferred needs to have a valid originating account and beneficiary of course. The clearance is same day value as well, so theres not alot that could go wrong with this method.

WRXPete

I can see it coming a mile off....he's gonna sell it to another poor sod, who'll buy it in good faith and lose his money too when the car is eventually seized.

Either that or it's gonna be used as getaway car in a series of ram raids....scoobies are No. 1 for that

ScooByer Trade

I know a lad from Stoke worked behind me in an m.o.t station bought a evo 6 ralliart, he was shown all the service history etc and hpi certificate but turns out the hpi is fake and the car was wrote off on 4 previous occasions before he bought it, what a B*****d. He paid £18k for this.

Q Dog

iTrader: (1)

Thanks to all of you for the varied comments.
I was shown a fake driving licence too (he did the same thing with a different car in february in Bristol)
I genuinely thought the guy was genuine as did my girlfriend, turns out he was just really good at his job.
I had every intention of checking the draft and had asked for the sort and account number from it the morning he was due.
He conveniently had his girlfriend (or whoever) phone me to say he left his phone behind in a rush and that he had missed his flight (therefore turning up to late for me to phone the bank)

I must say once again this guy was good he really had me fooled.

On insurance, i am covered but have to give details to a private investigator who then submits a report to my insurer so please all fingers crossed.

I dont think there is much chance of him being caught but you never know your luck.

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Sunds like a real "pro scumbag" at work here. I hope you get the insurance money ok Qdog. It's not like you were negligent or anything, you just got caught out by someone who shafts people for a living and is obviously very adept at it!

Don't know how Scumbags like that sleep at night!

He'll get caught eventually, they always get too greedy!

Really sorry to hear of your bad luck again mate!

NS04

PS. This case should serve to warn anyone who is considering buying a Scooby 2nd hand: HPI check!!!!! these Scumbags will get fake ID for stolen cars and it may be your only defence against paying for a car in good faith and loosing your money on it!

maci

iTrader: (3)

Not long ago when I tried to sel my old car I got contacted by one of these f*ers. Luck me, when he entered into the check story all my warning signals in my head lighted red So I searched a bit on the net and found a forum dedicated to this kind of scam. It is in fact quite shocking that this frauds started long time ago around 2000 and they are still happening. Their target seems to be honest trustfully people, for obvious reasons....

B.

Aztec Performance Ltd

iTrader: (234)

I would be suprised if insurance will cover you tbh. Afterall you handed the keys over without being forced.

I had an incident of a car going walkabouts after trusting the keys to someone and the Police didnt want to know and said its just a civil case.

I do feel for you mate.

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

It would hope it would cover him. The car was obtained by illegal means (even though force was not used) the seller would not have handed over the keys had he not been given a fraudulent bankers draft as full payment for the vehicle. It probably rests on whether -in the insurance companies view- the seller had been negligent and not taken reasonable precautions to prevent the car from being obtained illegally. It's not like he left the car unattended with the keys in the ignition and the door open or anything like that though. Even in a case like that there is still hope.

Will have my fingers crossed for ya!

NS04

Q Dog

iTrader: (1)

Cheers NS 04
I hope you are right.
As I see it though the Police are doing everything they can as he has done it before with the same fake driving licence and the fact that it has been seen by the bank early means he may not be rushing to pass it on yet.
Its been alerted to both Northern and Southern Ireland Police.
And I am, at the end of the day a victim of a crime, I just hope the insurance see it that way.
I will know tomorrow as I have an investigator coming out to speak to me, I did try to avoid by checking things out but got conned by a real good un.

Be nice to bump into the scumbag one day

Aztec Performance Ltd

iTrader: (234)

I do hope the insurance pays up for you but I really cant see it happening.

Did the police record the car as 'stolen' on crime ref or was it recorded as some fraud?

You may have an outside chance if its recorded as stolen.

Bob

Q Dog

iTrader: (1)

No its been recorded as stolen
I just have to wait now.

MeshMark

Sh*t I thought i had saw your scoob on the internet for sale
but there reg is R372 XKR
sorry m8 it was the xkr that i noticed and the fact it was a blue type r which is the type that i am looking to buy
sorry it wasnt the same reg q dog
the website was www.motorzoneuk.com if you want to have a look at there car that is for sale
mark

Hol

iTrader: (1)

XKR is a popular reg. *K* regs are all Kent anyway, but that particular combination appears on a number of Subaru and Evo imports.

MattPiece

Unlucky Q-Dog

This happened to a mate last year selling his BMW. But a few months later the scum was caught in act by the rozzers . Miracles do happen....And he got his money back.

TonyFlow

Q DOg - YHPM RE the possibility of this scumbag trying it on again!

pp27sti

Must say this has been a real eye opener for me and i have learnt alot from it as i am sure a few others have , so the more people that hear about these things the less chance these scum operators have of ripping us off.

Sorry to hear of your misfortune anyway , and hope you do manage to claim on your insurance .

Paul.

Scrappydoo2003

Fingers crossed things work out for you Q dog..

nakedjem

Pure and simple. All the new criminal recovery acts do not cover this scenario.

A banker's draft as many have said already is ring fenced in the originating bank. It is paid into the seller's bank, and the seller's bank rather than the seller can be asked to check the authenticity of the cheque. Once done the money is yours, and the banking system is left to sort out any further issues of theft or stolen car.

The buyers bank are required to inform the authorities of any suspicious cash transactions anyway, so it's very unlikely that a man can walk into a bank and deposit £20K in stolen cash, even over a short period of time.

The best advice remains. Take cash or banker's cheque. Take it to the bank. Wait until it is counted or authorized. Hand over the keys. Don't buy a Mitsubishi Carisma.

Jerry

Pootle

Building Society cheques can also be stolen (without any amount, or payee details on them - it happens!!), or forged, or altered. If so, they simply will not be honoured.

A Bankers Draft should be as good as cash, but obviously only if it's not stolen, forged, or altered. Again, if there is anything irregular about it, it will not be honoured and the money will be taken back out of the receivers account, sometimes months later.

Even cash isn't always safe as there are some forged notes out there that are very difficult to spot - holograms, solid/broken silver foil strips etc.

Handle all the notes - forged ones feel different. And be prepared to call 999 if you think you're being passed duff ones - I've seen criminals allowed to walk away with apologies because noone wanted to make a scene!!

Best advice? Get the buyer to bring a Passport and Driving Licence as proof of ID (although they can be forged too..!) and look at them! Go to the bank and transfer cash from their account to your account. That way you have a nice audit-trail and their mug might be on the bank's security cameras if it all goes ****-up!

If that isn't practical, go halves on the cost of a same-day CHAPS transfer from their account direct into your account and don't release the keys until you've confirmed with someone at your bank that the money is "clear and available".

HOWY

Just a wild shot, did you get any phone numbers from them that could be traced?

jpmason33

Another wild shot, did the car have a tracker fitted? You could trace the car through that.

J

cheeky69er

No its not as good as cash IMO, I had a row with Yorkshire and Barclays bank over this when buying my last car.
I was paid with a genuine Barclays bankers draft for the sale of one of my cars, I went into the bank to deposit the money and asked when I could draw the money out (to purchase my next car) I needed the money the next day so as not to loose my deposit on a car I'd seen. Bank said 5 working days to clear. I asked why if it was guarantee'd funds - apparently they are not guarantee'd into your account until it has cleared after 5 days. Before this time there is still the risk of the funds not clearing.

I spoke to the Manager at 3 branches of both Yorkshire and Barclays to be given the same story. Luckily I gave the guy another deposit and got the 2nd car i wanted, although it was 8 days later when I finally managed to get to the money due to wekeends and waiting for the draft to clear.

I alwasy stick to cash now when I need to move money around. Banks are just r0bbing b@stards who take their time to do anything and don't know their **** from their elbow.

Brun

Nowt like dragging an old post up

elgaz

Q Dog - could you pm me a description of the guy. Just found out something which may be relevant to this.

Thanks