Dorset Rolling Road Day at WRC Technologies - Sat 23rd April - New thread!
Originally Posted by IPALMER
Gerry,
I will need another remap soon(ish) as well - got my injectors - just need to decide on a turbo.
Iain
I will need another remap soon(ish) as well - got my injectors - just need to decide on a turbo.
Iain
Sooner the better for me
You could do worse than ask Andy's advice on turbos.
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From: Hampshire - now trying an M3
Originally Posted by Houghton
Iain,
Sooner the better for me You could do worse than ask Andy's advice on turbos.
Sooner the better for me
You could do worse than ask Andy's advice on turbos.realisticly i'd like 360 without too much lag ( don't want much then
)i want to keep the torque up as well - my crossover point of bhp / torque is at a healthy 5250 reading 300 / 300
figures for last weekend were with a sh@gged maf as well - new one in today - runs MUCH better.
BTW Any one here entered for Scooby Shoot Out? Never done a 1/4 mile before but thought I'd go and support it. The numbers are down this year and they're talking of inviting other marques. I suppose if that happens it won't be much of a SCOOBY Shoot Out.
Anyway, it'd be a chance to really see how much power we have. £45 for a day out
Anyway, it'd be a chance to really see how much power we have. £45 for a day out
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From: Hampshire - now trying an M3
Originally Posted by blueyzfr1
Mr Palmer,
I saw you waving that bloody hat at me as I was leaving, I'll be back
P.S. Your new turbo, injectors and remap should see you with some real big figures!
I saw you waving that bloody hat at me as I was leaving, I'll be back
P.S. Your new turbo, injectors and remap should see you with some real big figures!
at least i didn't wear my hat ALL the way home - Terry went to bed in his i think
Originally Posted by IPALMER
It's a toss up really - between 18g or 20g or look at the Garrett options.
realisticly i'd like 360 without too much lag ( don't want much then )
i want to keep the torque up as well - my crossover point of bhp / torque is at a healthy 5250 reading 300 / 300
figures for last weekend were with a sh@gged maf as well - new one in today - runs MUCH better.
realisticly i'd like 360 without too much lag ( don't want much then
)i want to keep the torque up as well - my crossover point of bhp / torque is at a healthy 5250 reading 300 / 300
figures for last weekend were with a sh@gged maf as well - new one in today - runs MUCH better.
My TD05/06 20G starts to spool at 2700 but the 2.5 has more torque anyway.
Take a look here, there's some interesting reading on turbos:
andyforrestperformance.co.uk
for future reference, or for those that aren't aware, if you have a commander unit you can display the voltage accross the MAF, iirc a voltage (at warm idle) between 1000mV and 1300mV is a-ok, if (at warm idle) its over 1600mV then chances are its a *******.
Im sure thats what Andy would have told Iain, cos thats what he told me
Im sure thats what Andy would have told Iain, cos thats what he told me
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From: Hampshire - now trying an M3
Originally Posted by Peanuts
for future reference, or for those that aren't aware, if you have a commander unit you can display the voltage accross the MAF, iirc a voltage (at warm idle) between 1000mV and 1300mV is a-ok, if (at warm idle) its over 1600mV then chances are its a *******.
Im sure thats what Andy would have told Iain, cos thats what he told me
Im sure thats what Andy would have told Iain, cos thats what he told me
I was running 1500mV on warm idle - the Afr was through the roof ( furthest green on the l/link ) and chuffing black smoke ( unburnt fuel ) on idle .
All better now
Originally Posted by Peanuts
for future reference, or for those that aren't aware, if you have a commander unit you can display the voltage accross the MAF, iirc a voltage (at warm idle) between 1000mV and 1300mV is a-ok, if (at warm idle) its over 1600mV then chances are its a *******.
Im sure thats what Andy would have told Iain, cos thats what he told me
Im sure thats what Andy would have told Iain, cos thats what he told me
I have a Datalogit permanently connected so can set the rev limit and then un-plug the commander and take it with me. I was thinking of fitting a plug & socket into the commander cable, or buying an extension cable until I managed to get the D/l
Some one called me Inspector Gadget on Saturday
but it's all to either preserve the engine or my licence
Originally Posted by Soulgirl
That sounds interesting Houghton...... NO! I'm not buying one! Not just yet anyway - I'm now busy saving for the next four months for my apexi
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Ah, but I have already spent May and Junes money LOL - damn forward planning! Ive got a full exterior detail on 7 May by ***** (member here) and June heralds the UK's most poignant Northern Soul Weekender up in dire Cleethorpes - need additional pocket money for that So, October it is.
So, October it is.
Originally Posted by Soulgirl
Ah, but I have already spent May and Junes money LOL - damn forward planning! Ive got a full exterior detail on 7 May by ***** (member here) and June heralds the UK's most poignant Northern Soul Weekender up in dire Cleethorpes - need additional pocket money for that So, October it is.
So, October it is.
That's what you get for swanning off enjoying yourself in a nice looking car
Hougthon
Does your car have standard 2.5Litre Internals? (- std in the sense that the pistons/rods, etc on a 2.5litre have not been binned) and is this the reason for running the td05/06?
I ran this Turbo and would say that yes its good for someone with std 2 litre internals as it can take so much boost and gives a realistic 350bhp (dependent on rollers!) on Optimax and maybe Millers........ and spools up reasonably well...........
But surprised to see it on a 2.5litre - think John Banks went this way before on his 2.5litre - he changed to a bigger garrett Turbo and I think he then subsequently changed that one as well
Does your car have standard 2.5Litre Internals? (- std in the sense that the pistons/rods, etc on a 2.5litre have not been binned) and is this the reason for running the td05/06?
I ran this Turbo and would say that yes its good for someone with std 2 litre internals as it can take so much boost and gives a realistic 350bhp (dependent on rollers!) on Optimax and maybe Millers........ and spools up reasonably well...........
But surprised to see it on a 2.5litre - think John Banks went this way before on his 2.5litre - he changed to a bigger garrett Turbo and I think he then subsequently changed that one as well
Originally Posted by Fangoria
Hougthon
Does your car have standard 2.5Litre Internals? (- std in the sense that the pistons/rods, etc on a 2.5litre have not been binned) and is this the reason for running the td05/06?
I ran this Turbo and would say that yes its good for someone with std 2 litre internals as it can take so much boost and gives a realistic 350bhp (dependent on rollers!) on Optimax and maybe Millers........ and spools up reasonably well...........
But surprised to see it on a 2.5litre - think John Banks went this way before on his 2.5litre - he changed to a bigger garrett Turbo and I think he then subsequently changed that one as well
Does your car have standard 2.5Litre Internals? (- std in the sense that the pistons/rods, etc on a 2.5litre have not been binned) and is this the reason for running the td05/06?
I ran this Turbo and would say that yes its good for someone with std 2 litre internals as it can take so much boost and gives a realistic 350bhp (dependent on rollers!) on Optimax and maybe Millers........ and spools up reasonably well...........
But surprised to see it on a 2.5litre - think John Banks went this way before on his 2.5litre - he changed to a bigger garrett Turbo and I think he then subsequently changed that one as well
Yes it's standard internals, done on a budget. i know you have a downer on this particular turbo, for some reason, but it was chosen as it suited my needs for the car. I do 25K or so a year so wanted something that would be OK for traffic or track day. It's very driveable and I like it.
Unfortunately I don't have John Banks expertise, dedication, ability or wedge
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From: Denmead
Originally Posted by IPALMER
Ricky - your car did well on the day - it was as it should be
at least i didn't wear my hat ALL the way home - Terry went to bed in his i think
at least i didn't wear my hat ALL the way home - Terry went to bed in his i think
Well I am on a mission now (to get a hat), I think I'll sell mine and get a later model, I'll be sticking mine up for sale at the weekend, don't know how much it's worth really but I'll aim high as I'm not desperate yet ;-)
R.
Houghton
Meant to say ...good for someone with std 2 litre internals as it cant take so much boost
Fine for you as you say, you have ok power and very useable torque from the 2.5 litre
I dont really have a downwe as such........ I guess I was disappointed have changed from a hybrid VF22 to this and it was not as powerful......but then it spooled up quiker than the hybrid VF22.......
Its a great Turbo for the money for someone not wanting the £xxxxx conversion and as stated has std internals
Only problem with me is that I'm never satisfied and want more power.....but I think I now understand the limitations of the Subaru and ultimately its not a daily 450+bhp driver on a 2litre engine, so I have to keep considering which car to go for next.......
Meant to say ...good for someone with std 2 litre internals as it cant take so much boost
Fine for you as you say, you have ok power and very useable torque from the 2.5 litre
I dont really have a downwe as such........ I guess I was disappointed have changed from a hybrid VF22 to this and it was not as powerful......but then it spooled up quiker than the hybrid VF22.......
Its a great Turbo for the money for someone not wanting the £xxxxx conversion and as stated has std internals
Only problem with me is that I'm never satisfied and want more power.....but I think I now understand the limitations of the Subaru and ultimately its not a daily 450+bhp driver on a 2litre engine, so I have to keep considering which car to go for next.......
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From: in motoring nirvana.....
Originally Posted by Houghton
BTW Any one here entered for Scooby Shoot Out? Never done a 1/4 mile before but thought I'd go and support it. The numbers are down this year and they're talking of inviting other marques. I suppose if that happens it won't be much of a SCOOBY Shoot Out.
Anyway, it'd be a chance to really see how much power we have. £45 for a day out
Anyway, it'd be a chance to really see how much power we have. £45 for a day out
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From: Swindon
On the subject of rolling roads and their variances there is a good exchange going on 22B in Pickles thread, now we have stopped getting emotional (meaning me) its turning into a good discussion, I was at G Force today and the one thing that was critical was to input correct rpm and speed settings for the chosen gear, since most speedo's are inaccurate and read fast and virtualy all tachos read 100 rpm high then this info is invariably at odds. I use speed from my GPS and rpm read straight out of the ecu rather than the tacho, I use these figures at any rolling road so having visited PE last Friday the same set of numbers were used today at G Force. At PE my car made 457 bhp and 375 ft lbs, we couldn't get full boost and it ran 0.15 bar down on the norm of 1.85. At G Force no such problem and it ran mapped boost. Chrge temp maximums were much higher at G Force due to the different fan used so peak power was lower and at lower rpm, although the power at that rpm was almost the same as at PE at that rpm (iyswim), PE fans produce a high air velocity with reasonable volume, I always have two on the car. G Force figures were 446.1 bhp and 400.1 ft lbs. I have an issue with my induction which is restricting air flow as at 75% throttle it made 441 bhp !! and at 50% throttle it made 393 bhp. So definatly restricted by the filter.
The point of the post was two fold, first to Steve, this is a 2 litre 450 bhp car that is used every day, runs Optimax with the usual 3mls per litre of NF.
As a general comment, at WRC, did the operator actually load in the correct speed and rpm figs for your cars dependant on gearing, if not then your figures are fiction. If he did and the errors in speedo were as normal then still not as they should have been.
bob
The point of the post was two fold, first to Steve, this is a 2 litre 450 bhp car that is used every day, runs Optimax with the usual 3mls per litre of NF.
As a general comment, at WRC, did the operator actually load in the correct speed and rpm figs for your cars dependant on gearing, if not then your figures are fiction. If he did and the errors in speedo were as normal then still not as they should have been.
bob
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From: Leicestershire
Originally Posted by colin c
1) Lee - EVO6 TME....................319bhp/319lbs
2) Matt - EVO 7 RS2..................306bhp/300lbs
3) Glen4 - EVO 8 MR.................322bhp/320lbs
4) Gooner - Legacy Spec B...................210bhp/210lbs
5) Dark Blue Mark - S2000........232bhp/
6) Robocop............................284bhp/270lbs
7) IPalmer.............................306bhp/318lbs
8) Scooby - TC.......................285bhp/260lbs
9) Drinkywrx.........................268bhp/280lbs
10) WaveyRA.........................243bhp/240lbs
11) BlueYZFR1........................258bhp/
12) TerryB............................300bhp/300lbs
14) Colin C............................328bhp/321lbs
15) marklemac......................268bhp/270lbs
16) Soulgirl...........................262bhp/259lbs
17) Pickle..............................346bhp/290lbs
18) Houghton.........................355bhp/350lbs
19)UrbanMyth Uk300................273bhp/300lbs
20)p1mark...........................
21)Fangoria...........................249bhp/270lbs
22)prelude(Dan).....................
23)nice'tints'..........................233bhp/
24)Jeremy.............................237bhp/241
25)555JRA...........................303bhp/310lbs
26)flat four boxer..................193bhp
27)sean adams-spec c.(Sadam)............306.1bhp/335lbs
28)iwan.................................320bhp/305lbs
29)PeteS-MY99.......................215bhp/253lbs
30) Aston...............................
31) Nixon..............................
32) J1nxy..............................284.6bhp/295(ish)lbs
Mark, yes I'm runing a FMIC and so is Pickle, but 500+ is possible on a top mount if your name is Andy Forrest.
Houghton can you please PM me all your mods as Marklemac and myself are trying to get all the details up together of the day and send them to Banzai for them to hopefully feature it. I,m also after an under bonnet pic of your car and Astons.
2) Matt - EVO 7 RS2..................306bhp/300lbs
3) Glen4 - EVO 8 MR.................322bhp/320lbs
4) Gooner - Legacy Spec B...................210bhp/210lbs
5) Dark Blue Mark - S2000........232bhp/
6) Robocop............................284bhp/270lbs
7) IPalmer.............................306bhp/318lbs
8) Scooby - TC.......................285bhp/260lbs
9) Drinkywrx.........................268bhp/280lbs
10) WaveyRA.........................243bhp/240lbs
11) BlueYZFR1........................258bhp/
12) TerryB............................300bhp/300lbs
14) Colin C............................328bhp/321lbs
15) marklemac......................268bhp/270lbs
16) Soulgirl...........................262bhp/259lbs
17) Pickle..............................346bhp/290lbs
18) Houghton.........................355bhp/350lbs
19)UrbanMyth Uk300................273bhp/300lbs
20)p1mark...........................
21)Fangoria...........................249bhp/270lbs
22)prelude(Dan).....................
23)nice'tints'..........................233bhp/
24)Jeremy.............................237bhp/241
25)555JRA...........................303bhp/310lbs
26)flat four boxer..................193bhp
27)sean adams-spec c.(Sadam)............306.1bhp/335lbs
28)iwan.................................320bhp/305lbs
29)PeteS-MY99.......................215bhp/253lbs
30) Aston...............................
31) Nixon..............................
32) J1nxy..............................284.6bhp/295(ish)lbs
Mark, yes I'm runing a FMIC and so is Pickle, but 500+ is possible on a top mount if your name is Andy Forrest.
Houghton can you please PM me all your mods as Marklemac and myself are trying to get all the details up together of the day and send them to Banzai for them to hopefully feature it. I,m also after an under bonnet pic of your car and Astons.
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That's interesting Bob. But would a lower figure in the beginning mean a smaller margin of error? For example, you have a whopping (which I hate you for) figure to begin with. If another car only had 198BHP would their 'real' figure be only slightly different? Am I making sense?
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From: Swindon
The difference in numbers would be proportional to the levels run, so higher figs would give more error, however it depends on how far out things are compared to reality for any given car, it would be the torque figure that suffers the most. its the same foe any rolling road of course, the prompt to post came from the fact that my own car is pretty erroneous in this respect, its only due to haveing gps that exposed the issue, any rollijg road operator will assume that speedo is "near", 10% at 150 mph is alot.
bob
bob
bob
bob
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From: Denmead
Power/Torque
1) Lee - EVO6 TME....................319bhp/319lbs
2) Matt - EVO 7 RS2..................306bhp/300lbs
3) Glen4 - EVO 8 MR.................322bhp/320lbs
4) Gooner - Legacy Spec B...................210bhp/210lbs
5) Dark Blue Mark - S2000........232bhp/
6) Robocop............................284bhp/270lbs this is incorrect?
7) IPalmer.............................306bhp/318lbs
8) Scooby - TC.......................285bhp/260lbs
9) Drinkywrx.........................268bhp/280lbs
10) WaveyRA.........................243bhp/240lbs
11) BlueYZFR1........................258bhp/238lbs
12) TerryB............................300bhp/300lbs
14) Colin C............................328bhp/321lbs
15) marklemac......................268bhp/270lbs
16) Soulgirl...........................262bhp/259lbs
17) Pickle..............................346bhp/290lbs
18) Houghton.........................355bhp/350lbs
19)UrbanMyth Uk300................273bhp/300lbs
20)p1mark...........................
21)Fangoria...........................249bhp/270lbs
22)prelude(Dan).....................
23)nice'tints'..........................233bhp/
24)Jeremy.............................237bhp/241
25)555JRA...........................303bhp/310lbs
26)flat four boxer..................193bhp
27)sean adams-spec c.(Sadam)............306.1bhp/335lbs
28)iwan.................................320bhp/305lbs
29)PeteS-MY99.......................215bhp/253lbs
30) Aston...............................
31) Nixon..............................
32) J1nxy..............................284.6bhp/295(ish)lbs
2) Matt - EVO 7 RS2..................306bhp/300lbs
3) Glen4 - EVO 8 MR.................322bhp/320lbs
4) Gooner - Legacy Spec B...................210bhp/210lbs
5) Dark Blue Mark - S2000........232bhp/
6) Robocop............................284bhp/270lbs this is incorrect?
7) IPalmer.............................306bhp/318lbs
8) Scooby - TC.......................285bhp/260lbs
9) Drinkywrx.........................268bhp/280lbs
10) WaveyRA.........................243bhp/240lbs
11) BlueYZFR1........................258bhp/238lbs
12) TerryB............................300bhp/300lbs
14) Colin C............................328bhp/321lbs
15) marklemac......................268bhp/270lbs
16) Soulgirl...........................262bhp/259lbs
17) Pickle..............................346bhp/290lbs
18) Houghton.........................355bhp/350lbs
19)UrbanMyth Uk300................273bhp/300lbs
20)p1mark...........................
21)Fangoria...........................249bhp/270lbs
22)prelude(Dan).....................
23)nice'tints'..........................233bhp/
24)Jeremy.............................237bhp/241
25)555JRA...........................303bhp/310lbs
26)flat four boxer..................193bhp
27)sean adams-spec c.(Sadam)............306.1bhp/335lbs
28)iwan.................................320bhp/305lbs
29)PeteS-MY99.......................215bhp/253lbs
30) Aston...............................
31) Nixon..............................
32) J1nxy..............................284.6bhp/295(ish)lbs
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Hi All,
Firstly, thanks again to all those that came to the dyno day. This is a very late reply - we've had some problems with our email system recently, so if anyone has an un-replied email please re-send it and I will contact you asap. We had a server go down and lost a lot of emails from our system.
There is a group buy on ECU remapping at the moment. One of our customers has started it in the group buy section. Covers all models from 97-05.
On the issue of dyno accuracy. The RPM readout on the tacho is referenced against roller speed - not your in-accurate speedo. The tacho may be up to 200 rpm out, but at 3000rpm, the inaccuracy does not effect the final figures too much. The dyno measures force application - as tractive effort at the wheels. These figures are converted into bhp at the wheels. The rate of force application as the power test is being conducted determnines the transmission losses, and the flywheel bhp figures are calculated as a result.
If the rpm readings are out, the torque figures are affected - not BHP -
as this systems determines bhp, and works backwards to determine torque figures. I've run these dynos myself for more than 3 years, and been involved in tuning on these rollers since 1997. I am the most experience Dyno Dynamics operator in the UK, and I can assure you we do not make 'schoolboy errors'.
That aside, by all means post or email questions and I will be more than happy to help you out.
Regards,
Chris Davies
Firstly, thanks again to all those that came to the dyno day. This is a very late reply - we've had some problems with our email system recently, so if anyone has an un-replied email please re-send it and I will contact you asap. We had a server go down and lost a lot of emails from our system.
There is a group buy on ECU remapping at the moment. One of our customers has started it in the group buy section. Covers all models from 97-05.
On the issue of dyno accuracy. The RPM readout on the tacho is referenced against roller speed - not your in-accurate speedo. The tacho may be up to 200 rpm out, but at 3000rpm, the inaccuracy does not effect the final figures too much. The dyno measures force application - as tractive effort at the wheels. These figures are converted into bhp at the wheels. The rate of force application as the power test is being conducted determnines the transmission losses, and the flywheel bhp figures are calculated as a result.
If the rpm readings are out, the torque figures are affected - not BHP -
as this systems determines bhp, and works backwards to determine torque figures. I've run these dynos myself for more than 3 years, and been involved in tuning on these rollers since 1997. I am the most experience Dyno Dynamics operator in the UK, and I can assure you we do not make 'schoolboy errors'.
That aside, by all means post or email questions and I will be more than happy to help you out.
Regards,
Chris Davies
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From: Bournemouth - 5x Ex Impreza owner. 997 GT3 CS.
Chris, thanks for all the hard work the 3 of you put in on the day, on behalf of everyone. Most impressed and I feel an STi coming on again come the winter (S2000 is a bit slippy!) with the WRC conversion....
Ta,
MB
Ta,
MB
