Dark Blue Mark

Ignorance is bliss with some of you lot on here, im not going to argue, just let you get on with your merry ways of tuning without a clue.

How you coud ever fit something without fully understanding worries me.

Edited as im not rising to the bait Bye!

MB

Olly Powers

Very interesting. I believe API to be a very reputable company from what I've read on here, so why would they link themselves to, or market a product which is inherently(sp) bad for the car.

I guess Blitz, Hks, Forge etc also don't know what you lot know

Peanuts

iTrader: (15)

but that doesnt make any sense???

either they both have them and your trying to point out an irony, or they dont and your concurring with the Chav label.

which is it?

David_Wallis

VTA Dumpvalves should be left to the RS Turbos.

No dumpvalve on my car.

David

Olly Powers

quote
Olly,
30
low crime nice enough area in southern Hampshire
same does apply IMHO

Andy,
32
Nice part of Zummerzet,
Wife has to drive a Nova because I keep spending all the money on the Scoob

scoobyjohn2000

does fitting bigger wheels make u a chav....yes or no!!!

does putting stickers on ur car make u a chav....yes or no!!!

does fitting spoilers make u a chav....yes or no!!!
does changing the body work make u a chav...yes or no!!!
does tinting the windows make u a chav...yes or no!!!
does fitting gauges make u a chav....yes or no!!!
does fitting diff lights make u a chav....yes or no!!!
does fitting a big ice install make u a chav....yes or no!!!
does fitting crome in the engine make u a chav....yes or no!!!
answers on a post card.

Olly Powers

And off we go again.
What the hell has an RS turbo got to do with it?
Why is it acceptable to bash any other make of car on here but if someone mentions a disliking of the Impreza, you all have a coronary?

Peanuts

iTrader: (15)

aah, the loverly Zider apples!
Father lives none too far from the Quantocks.

Irrespective of all the banter on this and every other vta thread, my purpose is to get a positive reason for fitting them.
if it is for noise to please the owner then thats fair enough, but thus far, no one has offered a single positive reason.
Rather they have tried to defend their camp, which creates a sort of "Mexican stand off" with the none vta crowd.

Peanuts

iTrader: (15)

does fitting bigger wheels make u a chav....yes
does putting stickers on ur car make u a chav....yes
does fitting bigger spoilers make u a chav....yes
does changing the body work make u a chav...yes
does tinting the windows make u a chav...yes
does fitting gauges make u a chav.... no!!!
does fitting diff lights make u a chav....yes
does fitting a big ice install (and driving round with it at excessively loud levels) make u a chav....yes
does fitting crome in the engine make u a chav....yes
answers on a post card. no!!!

scoobyjohn2000

i will see if its possable to fit both one on each side of the intercooler

then everyone will be happy and we can all hold hands and play nicely

Dark Blue Mark

David, what power are you running without a DV?

MB

Olly Powers

If "we" do it, then its chav.
If "they" do it, then its performance and style.
I tell you what.......Show me an Impreza that is completley standard, and I'll show you an owner that is either not knowledgable or not interested. If you fall into that class, what the hell are doing on this "enthusiasts" bbs?
According to the most touted definitions we are all chavs.
Get used to it.

scoobyjohn2000

senseable answer time i did have a recirc on my impreza.

i was at well lane turbo on a rr day, was on my 2nd run on the rollers
and my recirc got blown apart so rather then buy another one
i got a hks one.

Dark Blue Mark

Some mods are tasteful, some are definately not, including VTA's. All my mods are purely performance which is what the car is about, not sounding and looking like something from Max Power. Give us all a bad name



MB

scoobyjohn2000

so can i ask u mark if u have any of the above items???

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

Totally agree Mark, obviously I have upset some people by saying that dumpvalves are not there to increase power, they are used to dump excess pressure, end of story.
Yes, the makers will say that it will increase spool up time etc. I believed all the hype and bought myself one (turbo xs). What a load of cr%p! My sti was jerky and actually slower spooling up. I did get some pops and bangs which sounded great, but all that meant was that the vta was causing my car to run rich (possibly bore wash etc)

Don't get me wrong, I like the sound of a good VTA, and if mapped properly, a car running one will have no probs. What I find amusing is the way people will believe all the manufacturers hype, even when, in their own minds, they know their car hasnt been improved.

'My induction kit gives me 20bhp cause that what they told me!!!'

Come on peeps, use your own judgement. If you like VTA's, fine. Just don't try and convince anyone that it gives a performance benifit.

originally posted by scoobyjohn 2000;
'chris if i wanted ur lip i would rip it off ur face?'

Oh, and ScoobyJohn2000, if you are easily offended, I suggest you watch what you type. We can't always wrap you in cotton wool.

David_Wallis

Mark, over 500 at a guess.

The question is, does the mod serve a worthwhile purpose on the car?

My car:

Bigger wheels - For the bigger brakes
Changing bodywork.. loose weight and improve airflow
tinting windows - not done, but would keep the sun out.
Gauges - Protect my investment in the engine.
Diff lights.. - Dont serve anypurpose for me.
Big ICE install - Mine has been removed, but I listen to my music whilst driving so I want it to sound its best where I listen to it the most, except 5 amps = Slow car.
Chrome in engine bay is GAY!

{big wooden spoon}
VTA Dumpvalves have no place on a car runing a maf. They should only be fitted on Map based cars imho.

{/big wooden spoon}

Olly Powers

Agreed, so I shall tell you what I know from my point of view.
I have a 94UK turbo which has the dump valve pre-intercooler. If I use a recirc version it will recycle the already heated air back through the turbo to be heated again. This in my opinion is far more dangerous than the tiny amount of overfuelling which occurrs as a result of having a VTA.
The marketing behind them states that they reduce back pressure on lift off which helps to keep the turbo spinning to reduce lag. I appreciate that this applies to both sorts of dump valve. Has this been proven to not be true?
Can we also clarify what we're discussing?
Is it: Dump valve V's No dump valve?
Or: Recirculating V's Vent to Atmosphere?

Dark Blue Mark

Answer I was expectind David

Chris,

John, if your recirc blew apart, what doeas that tell you? Do you think it was maybe leaking boost as it was not in a good state? Putting a different one on there probably just stopped a small boost leak, hence you got a few bhp back. Its like I said, you really need some engineering knowledge before you bolt these bits on and make your own informed judgement. No way id be conned into fitting a £250 DV

Also, it may be something of nothing, ive seen my car vary up to 5bhp throughout the day on a RR due to ambients temps and ecu learning etc.

I have no external mods other than some darg grey P1 wheels - which in effect are OE items and lighter than standard.

MB

Dark Blue Mark

Olly, I dont think you get it. Heated air back to the turbo cannot be then heated further than the rest of it in theory. Its not going to exponentially heat up.

Dangerous? I think not. And yes, the claim that they improve spool is fine, but better over the standard? I think not - if so it would be marginal and insignificant.

If it was a saftey issue would Subaru / Mitubishi / Nissan not had fitted a VTA?

If you need it for performance reasons, why do the following not have a VTA?

Litchfield Type 25 - 1.4 bar and over 350 bhp
Spec C Subaru STi - Similar
Harvey's STi with nearly 600 bhp
TSL's 330 bhp 22B
John banks 400 bhp uk car
BRD's STi V5
David Wallis's monster

I need not continue, the list above are some of the most powerful cars in the UK - not restricted by a recirc DV.

Conclusion - you do it for the noise alone...

MB

scoobyjohn2000

i do see ur point mark but i didnt want to risk another one going **** up as there not cheap... now on the first run it ran fine if it was leaking then they should of picked up on it but i cant say for sure. now when i went back a few weeks later with hks on, did 3 runs outside air temp was 3 deg more then first time but could of been running leaner but when u have the graphs side by side when the boost came in and on gear change it was a lot smooter then first run with recirc so in my own (matchstick) thoughts is that my car personaly runs better with it?

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

'If I use a recirc version it will recycle the already heated air back through the turbo to be heated again. This in my opinion is far more dangerous than the tiny amount of overfuelling which occurrs as a result of having a VTA.'


This thread should be framed! This is so much more enjoyable than going down the gym!!!

Jay m A

iTrader: (2)

I can't believe nobody in the VTA camp has mentioned VTAs are worthwhile if youre running big boost, to protect over pressurisation on lift off.

Depending on turbo used anything over 1.5 bar may benefit from a VTA if setup and mapped correctly (non MAF)

Personally I once had the mispleasure of driving one of my scoobs home (when I first bought it) with one of these things attached to it. I actually felt embarressed on gear change LOL

Because it gives the impression its something that it isn't

Olly Powers

Sorry Mark you must be right.
If I have a volume of air at X temp and I add another volume of air at a significantly higher temp, it will make the overall temp higher.
What am I missing?
I appreciate we might be talking small potatoes here but isn't it the same for the VTA's?
P.s Mine is mapped for it, so is it acceptable now?

David_Wallis

The air is post intercooler anyway..

And you may be suprised what temps your seeing at the inlet of the TD05 anyway.

David

Dark Blue Mark

John, if you're happy with it, keep it. I personally dont think its going to kill the car but just trying to get across that I think they are pointless from a performance perspective.

It may be smoother die to the fact the old one way on its way out? I founf mine far too jerky with a VTA and won't be trying one again. Plus my bird laughed at the noise (note- I was 23 at the time!)

MB

redwrx

Do the wrc rally cars have vta dump valves..??? cos they seem to make a swoosh sound, and a bit of chatter..!! so that would make them chav???


ive got lexus lights and a bailey dump valve .....and i couldnt give a flying **** what people think.

'I' like the lights
'I' like the vta

'I' paid for them ..... if some else dont like them, 'you' pay for what you want to see on my car.

if being liked or disliked about what i do and dont have on my scoob makes me a chav or anything else, i really couldnt care. Its your car, and your individuality ...... if vta's do or dont make more mpg, so what.. the price of fuel goes up and down... you dont buy scoobs for economy..!!

As for vta'a making more power?? even if they did, what's 2bhp in 300 ......like your going to notice.


Since when did being a scoob owner make you a robot that has do do what every one else tells you.

ive got an my93, does that make me any less of a scoob owner than someone who's spent £30k on one?

ive had a vta for 3 years .... and the car runs fine with it.


Its pretty shallow to judge someone on the basis of a £100 or so piece of kit......So does waving to someone, in a scoob you dont know, make you a chav?? ....oh look there's another scoob, i better wave.


Unless there is solid evidence to prove vta's knacker engines, in which case they wouldnt be sold. Roads knacker tyres.

Who cares ..... be individual.

Dark Blue Mark

Jay MA - See my list of big power / boost cars. Remember, Forge do an uprated recirc.

Olly, see David's answer. And how did they map the fuelling on throttle lift? Id be most keen to know if they stopped the overfuel if its MAF based

MB

Olly Powers

Not on my car it isn't.
94UK

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Actually damage would most likely be caused to the catalytic converters (presuming they are fitted)...they really do not take well to unburnt fuel and backfiring on a regular basis.