Surrey Rolling Road Day - Saturday 19th March 2005
23 March 2005, 08:03 AM
#151
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Here are the figures for G-Force roling road day that drumsterphil held last April.
Fangoria - 409.4
Pickle - 347.8
Drumsterphil - 333.1
R.B. - 332.3
Stu Page - 298.8
WRX888 - 288.0
Urbanmyth - 276.7
John S. - 274.4
Andy Pugh - 268.9
Mat Fitzpatrick - 262.2
Kev (RB5309) - 255.1
Richard - 253.4
V5 Man - 249.3
Neilo - 247.8
Scottywrx - 244.6
Monkey Boy 2 - 237.7
Steve R - 234.0
Songmasterbob - 232.4
Frenchboy - 227.4
If you check out the figures for urbanmyth, this car was a STi MY03 PPP
Nick ran exactly the same spec car on saturday and made 276 bhp
Coincidence??
My car ran 268 on the above run but made 284 on saturday with a VF28 turbo instead of the TD04 so IMHO the figures from saturday aren't a million miles away
Fangoria - 409.4
Pickle - 347.8
Drumsterphil - 333.1
R.B. - 332.3
Stu Page - 298.8
WRX888 - 288.0
Urbanmyth - 276.7
John S. - 274.4
Andy Pugh - 268.9
Mat Fitzpatrick - 262.2
Kev (RB5309) - 255.1
Richard - 253.4
V5 Man - 249.3
Neilo - 247.8
Scottywrx - 244.6
Monkey Boy 2 - 237.7
Steve R - 234.0
Songmasterbob - 232.4
Frenchboy - 227.4
If you check out the figures for urbanmyth, this car was a STi MY03 PPP
Nick ran exactly the same spec car on saturday and made 276 bhp
Coincidence??
My car ran 268 on the above run but made 284 on saturday with a VF28 turbo instead of the TD04 so IMHO the figures from saturday aren't a million miles away
Last edited by andypugh2000; 23 March 2005 at 08:05 AM.
23 March 2005, 09:22 AM
#152
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Fair comment Andy.
Do you remember what Neilo got on Saturday? Maybe Neil would like to comment and how it compares with the G-Force run?
I know that the MY99/00 PPP car (Tuckers) got book figure.
Also the automatic Legacy and Forester, seem to be in the right ball park.
Do you remember what Neilo got on Saturday? Maybe Neil would like to comment and how it compares with the G-Force run?
I know that the MY99/00 PPP car (Tuckers) got book figure.
Also the automatic Legacy and Forester, seem to be in the right ball park.
23 March 2005, 09:26 AM
#153
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Can you explain why I got 10% higher figures at PE than I got at Surrey Rolling Road ?
over the history of my Subaru Ownership the PE rollers have been very consistent ! Now it seems like they are being doubted ?! Seems like Respected members of the community like Bob & Pat trust the PE rollers & Seem to think they are similar to the readings you will get on the G force rollers !
Which rollers did your Classic make its 350 ish run on Andy Tango man ?
over the history of my Subaru Ownership the PE rollers have been very consistent ! Now it seems like they are being doubted ?! Seems like Respected members of the community like Bob & Pat trust the PE rollers & Seem to think they are similar to the readings you will get on the G force rollers !
Which rollers did your Classic make its 350 ish run on Andy Tango man
?
23 March 2005, 09:42 AM
#154
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Originally Posted by Andy Tang
Fair comment Andy.
Do you remember what Neilo got on Saturday? Maybe Neil would like to comment and how it compares with the G-Force run?
I know that the MY99/00 PPP car (Tuckers) got book figure.
Also the automatic Legacy and Forester, seem to be in the right ball park.
Do you remember what Neilo got on Saturday? Maybe Neil would like to comment and how it compares with the G-Force run?
I know that the MY99/00 PPP car (Tuckers) got book figure.
Also the automatic Legacy and Forester, seem to be in the right ball park.
Now it has a bigger turbo (APS SR30) running 1.4bar, bigger intercooler, bigger injectors, full decat, and a BRD Tek 3 map. The car is infinitely quicker that 247bhp, and at that time the wheels figure was 184.
On saturday the wheels figure (given all of the above work) was 191???
With a previous map with the turbo running 1.2bar it made 295 at PEand 224 at the wheels, so i was expecting it to be around the 310-315mark, and about 240 at the wheels....the car certainly feels that fast (considerably quicker than when tested at 295 at least.)
Cheers,
Neil.
23 March 2005, 09:47 AM
#155
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Neil It would be interesting to see what it was producing on a different set of rollers Ie G force or PE
I would love to be able to run mine now on G Forces rollers but I have spent over £80 in 4 days just comparing PE & Surrey Rolling Road ! Anyone want to contribute towards at run at G force so we can compare the results there too ? LOL
I would love to be able to run mine now on G Forces rollers but I have spent over £80 in 4 days just comparing PE & Surrey Rolling Road ! Anyone want to contribute towards at run at G force so we can compare the results there too ? LOL
23 March 2005, 09:51 AM
#156
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Originally Posted by Fulham71
Neil It would be interesting to see what it was producing on a different set of rollers Ie G force or PE
I would love to be able to run mine now on G Forces rollers but I have spent over £80 in 4 days just comparing PE & Surrey Rolling Road ! Anyone want to contribute towards at run at G force so we can compare the results there too ? LOL
I would love to be able to run mine now on G Forces rollers but I have spent over £80 in 4 days just comparing PE & Surrey Rolling Road ! Anyone want to contribute towards at run at G force so we can compare the results there too ? LOL
23 March 2005, 10:13 AM
#157
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No chance for Saturday Andy
I have spoken to G force & they are trying to find a suitable time when we canrun my car there !
This will onviously never be conclusive but will give more of an idea ! Depending on the G force rolling figures we will have an idea of where this thread is going ! OBVIOUSLY I KNOW THAT THE CAR hasnt been rin on the same day same conditions etc etc but the car will be in the same spec on all 3 runs (No changes at all) & it will give us an IDEA of the accuracy of different rolling roads !
I have spoken to G force & they are trying to find a suitable time when we canrun my car there !
This will onviously never be conclusive but will give more of an idea ! Depending on the G force rolling figures we will have an idea of where this thread is going ! OBVIOUSLY I KNOW THAT THE CAR hasnt been rin on the same day same conditions etc etc but the car will be in the same spec on all 3 runs (No changes at all) & it will give us an IDEA of the accuracy of different rolling roads !
23 March 2005, 10:21 AM
#158
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Paul,
For the record my old silver car made:
[Full De-cat and filter]
239bhp - 223lb/ft - Powerstation
271bhp - 249lb/ft - Power Engineering
[The full monty - Runs were done 1 week apart with the same tank of fuel, tyre pressures and similar temperatures]
340.5bhp - [Can't remember torque] - Tuning Japanese
354bhp - 298lb/ft - Power Engineering
Everyone will swear blind that their rolling roads are the most accurate, as when they run "this or that" standard car, it makes the manufacturers figures.
With the TJ and PE runs, the figures were within 5% of each other. I'm happy to write that off as temperature or humidity differences.
Only issue is that PE can't run automatics, so there is no way of me knowing if there are differences with my car on different rollers.
For the record my old silver car made:
[Full De-cat and filter]
239bhp - 223lb/ft - Powerstation
271bhp - 249lb/ft - Power Engineering
[The full monty - Runs were done 1 week apart with the same tank of fuel, tyre pressures and similar temperatures]
340.5bhp - [Can't remember torque] - Tuning Japanese
354bhp - 298lb/ft - Power Engineering
Everyone will swear blind that their rolling roads are the most accurate, as when they run "this or that" standard car, it makes the manufacturers figures.
With the TJ and PE runs, the figures were within 5% of each other. I'm happy to write that off as temperature or humidity differences.
Only issue is that PE can't run automatics, so there is no way of me knowing if there are differences with my car on different rollers.
Last edited by Andy Tang; 23 March 2005 at 10:26 AM.
23 March 2005, 10:26 AM
#159
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So by your comments above are you saying that the rollers at PE are reading high & therefore your car might have been a sub 350 bhp car
Obviously by the results I have recieved on the two dynos, one has to be reading high or low If you are saying that you think the Surrey Rolling Road ones were right on Sat, then that means that the PE ones must be high & therefore can we cast doubt on your 356 at PE
Only a bit of fun mate !
Obviously by the results I have recieved on the two dynos, one has to be reading high or low
If you are saying that you think the Surrey Rolling Road ones were right on Sat, then that means that the PE ones must be high & therefore can we cast doubt on your 356 at PE Only a bit of fun mate !
23 March 2005, 10:28 AM
#160
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My figure pissed other people off, as their highly modified Japanese and UK cars could not beat the figures on the same day!
Sub-350bhp or not, it annoyed enough people to make me chuckle all the way home! 
Sub-350bhp or not, it annoyed enough people to make me chuckle all the way home!
23 March 2005, 10:30 AM
#161
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i would be interested if someone could get something organised.....althoguh i am down to do one at WRC tech, which is operated by chris (ex g-force) so would hope that it would be similar?
23 March 2005, 10:53 AM
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That what its all about mate
Would be nice to compare the rollers though!
Impossible to get an exact science as its never possible to runt he same car in exactly the same conditions at the same time etc etc
BUT We might be able to get a fair comparison if we can get the same car/cars on a few rollers !
Just a cash issue as these things are expensive !!
Would be nice to compare the rollers though!
Impossible to get an exact science as its never possible to runt he same car in exactly the same conditions at the same time etc etc
BUT We might be able to get a fair comparison if we can get the same car/cars on a few rollers !
Just a cash issue as these things are expensive !!
23 March 2005, 11:17 AM
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Fulham71,
As I and others had stated, you can NOT compare the flywheel figs on the P/E and Dyno Dynodynamics Roads. You can only compare the wheel figs, even then the two roads use different atmos correction systems so i would expect this to be a little higher on the P/E run on Monday.
Since the Wheel fig is the only this a RR can measure, you have stated that myn under reads by 10%. Please publish the wheel fig you got at P/E on Monday, so that EVERYONE can judge about the rollers using fact, or remove your comments.
As I and others had stated, you can NOT compare the flywheel figs on the P/E and Dyno Dynodynamics Roads. You can only compare the wheel figs, even then the two roads use different atmos correction systems so i would expect this to be a little higher on the P/E run on Monday.
Since the Wheel fig is the only this a RR can measure, you have stated that myn under reads by 10%. Please publish the wheel fig you got at P/E on Monday, so that EVERYONE can judge about the rollers using fact, or remove your comments.
23 March 2005, 11:25 AM
#167
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OK booked in for a session at G Force so will publish the results of that run too !
Apparently G Force run the 5 speed cars in 3rd Gear in shoot out 44. (6 gear cars will be run in 4th) Mine is a 5 speed car so not sure why you ran it in 4th & not 3rd !
I will speak to the technician after the run to see what difference this will make ! (maybe thats why your figures are lower !)
As I have said all along I am not here to take a pop out you or youre rolling road but maybe this is a learning experience for all of us !
Apparently G Force run the 5 speed cars in 3rd Gear in shoot out 44. (6 gear cars will be run in 4th) Mine is a 5 speed car so not sure why you ran it in 4th & not 3rd !
I will speak to the technician after the run to see what difference this will make ! (maybe thats why your figures are lower !)
As I have said all along I am not here to take a pop out you or youre rolling road but maybe this is a learning experience for all of us !
23 March 2005, 11:28 AM
#168
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Originally Posted by Fulham71
OK booked in for a session at G Force so will publish the results of that run too !
Apparently G Force run the 5 speed cars in 3rd Gear in shoot out 44. (6 gear cars will be run in 4th) Mine is a 5 speed car so not sure why you ran it in 4th & not 3rd !
I will speak to the technician after the run to see what difference this will make ! (maybe thats why your figures are lower !)
As I have said all along I am not here to take a pop out you or youre rolling road but maybe this is a learning experience for all of us !
Apparently G Force run the 5 speed cars in 3rd Gear in shoot out 44. (6 gear cars will be run in 4th) Mine is a 5 speed car so not sure why you ran it in 4th & not 3rd !
I will speak to the technician after the run to see what difference this will make ! (maybe thats why your figures are lower !)
As I have said all along I am not here to take a pop out you or youre rolling road but maybe this is a learning experience for all of us !
I repeat, PUBLISH YOUR WHEEL FIGS, or remove your comments!
Don't start being all friendly now either.
23 March 2005, 11:37 AM
#169
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Originally Posted by vixpy1
We ran it in 4rd because YOU asked us too, however, we would have done it anyway.
I repeat, PUBLISH YOUR WHEEL FIGS, or remove your comments!
Don't start being all friendly now either.
I repeat, PUBLISH YOUR WHEEL FIGS, or remove your comments!
Don't start being all friendly now either.
23 March 2005, 11:40 AM
#170
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NO I didnt ask you to ! I trusted that you knew what you were doing as it is your business & I am not an expert on rolling roads & have never said I am !
I had grave worries when I was told that the two guys running the rollers were a paint sprayer & a computer technician & this rolling road is a part time job (correct me if I am wrong as this is just pure hearsay !) Also when you didnt know how to measure boost pressure on my car hence why I told you not to bother & to leave it alone !
I am not being friendly or otherwise ! As quoted by yourself in a private mail from you you dont give a toss what I think & You will not be publishing any comments about your rolling road on any public forums ! Why start now !? I make judgements on people based on respect ! There are plenty of guys on here whos views I respect. Some have posted on here.
I will not be posting on here until the car has been on the rollers at G force as I am worried that you are turning this thread the wrong way ! The figures will talk for themselves ! I will publish the graphs & Then will not comment again & it will be for others to make judgements ! BUT it appears to me that you MIGHT be running cars in the wrong gear in the mode that you are using BUT then again it could be that G Force are doing it wrong !
As far as I am concerned this has dragged on too long. Once I have the print out for G force I will publish your graph, the one from PE & The G force one !
I WONT post anything else ! I am bored of this now ! I have spent too much time & money on this !
You are happy with your rollers & thats all that counts ! People chose what rollers they run their cars on & again thats their choice.
I had never heard of your company before this rolling road was arranged ! I had heard of PE & G Force & their reputation speaks for itself !
For all I know G force could produce the same figures as yours & Then I will be man enough to publish on here to that effect !
I had grave worries when I was told that the two guys running the rollers were a paint sprayer & a computer technician & this rolling road is a part time job (correct me if I am wrong as this is just pure hearsay !) Also when you didnt know how to measure boost pressure on my car hence why I told you not to bother & to leave it alone !
I am not being friendly or otherwise ! As quoted by yourself in a private mail from you you dont give a toss what I think & You will not be publishing any comments about your rolling road on any public forums ! Why start now !? I make judgements on people based on respect ! There are plenty of guys on here whos views I respect. Some have posted on here.
I will not be posting on here until the car has been on the rollers at G force as I am worried that you are turning this thread the wrong way ! The figures will talk for themselves ! I will publish the graphs & Then will not comment again & it will be for others to make judgements ! BUT it appears to me that you MIGHT be running cars in the wrong gear in the mode that you are using BUT then again it could be that G Force are doing it wrong !
As far as I am concerned this has dragged on too long. Once I have the print out for G force I will publish your graph, the one from PE & The G force one !
I WONT post anything else ! I am bored of this now ! I have spent too much time & money on this !
You are happy with your rollers & thats all that counts ! People chose what rollers they run their cars on & again thats their choice.
I had never heard of your company before this rolling road was arranged ! I had heard of PE & G Force & their reputation speaks for itself !
For all I know G force could produce the same figures as yours & Then I will be man enough to publish on here to that effect !
23 March 2005, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Fulham71
NO I didnt ask you to ! I trusted that you knew what you were doing as it is your business & I am not an expert on rolling roads & have never said I am !
I had grave worries when I was told that the two guys running the rollers were a paint sprayer & a computer technician & this rolling road is a part time job (correct me if I am wrong as this is just pure hearsay !) Also when you didnt know how to measure boost pressure on my car hence why I told you not to bother & to leave it alone !
I am not being friendly or otherwise ! As quoted by yourself in a private mail from you you dont give a toss what I think & You will not be publishing any comments about your rolling road on any public forums ! Why start now !? I make judgements on people based on respect ! There are plenty of guys on here whos views I respect. Some have posted on here.
I will not be posting on here until the car has been on the rollers at G force as I am worried that you are turning this thread the wrong way ! The figures will talk for themselves ! I will publish the graphs & Then will not comment again & it will be for others to make judgements ! BUT it appears to me that you MIGHT be running cars in the wrong gear in the mode that you are using BUT then again it could be that G Force are doing it wrong !
As far as I am concerned this has dragged on too long. Once I have the print out for G force I will publish your graph, the one from PE & The G force one !
I WONT post anything else ! I am bored of this now ! I have spent too much time & money on this !
You are happy with your rollers & thats all that counts ! People chose what rollers they run their cars on & again thats their choice.
I had never heard of your company before this rolling road was arranged ! I had heard of PE & G Force & their reputation speaks for itself !
For all I know G force could produce the same figures as yours & Then I will be man enough to publish on here to that effect !
I had grave worries when I was told that the two guys running the rollers were a paint sprayer & a computer technician & this rolling road is a part time job (correct me if I am wrong as this is just pure hearsay !) Also when you didnt know how to measure boost pressure on my car hence why I told you not to bother & to leave it alone !
I am not being friendly or otherwise ! As quoted by yourself in a private mail from you you dont give a toss what I think & You will not be publishing any comments about your rolling road on any public forums ! Why start now !? I make judgements on people based on respect ! There are plenty of guys on here whos views I respect. Some have posted on here.
I will not be posting on here until the car has been on the rollers at G force as I am worried that you are turning this thread the wrong way ! The figures will talk for themselves ! I will publish the graphs & Then will not comment again & it will be for others to make judgements ! BUT it appears to me that you MIGHT be running cars in the wrong gear in the mode that you are using BUT then again it could be that G Force are doing it wrong !
As far as I am concerned this has dragged on too long. Once I have the print out for G force I will publish your graph, the one from PE & The G force one !
I WONT post anything else ! I am bored of this now ! I have spent too much time & money on this !
You are happy with your rollers & thats all that counts ! People chose what rollers they run their cars on & again thats their choice.
I had never heard of your company before this rolling road was arranged ! I had heard of PE & G Force & their reputation speaks for itself !
For all I know G force could produce the same figures as yours & Then I will be man enough to publish on here to that effect !
Who says i did'nt know how to join the boost up? You told me not to bother before i had a chance to fix it up!
You won't publish the wheels fig from P/E becuase I suspect its probably about 10whp over the figs you recieved on myn. I know the two sets of rollers and how they perform. P/E don't run atmos correction on the wheel figs, and it was a colder day. So in my mind if this is true it exonterates both me, my company and my rollers.
Either Deny that the wheel H/p figs were not that far away from mine. Publish the wheel figs you recieved at P/E. Or Apolagise!!!!!
23 March 2005, 12:11 PM
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I know you are trying to find out my at the wheels figures as you are on the phone to Power Engineering asking for them now !
The wheels figure was 247 compared to 227 on your rollers apparently ie 8.8% difference !
You didnt know where to connect the boost pipe as you called me over for assistance !
I apologise for doubting that this is your job ! MY MISTAKE !
I didnt feel necessary to publish them as a) You havent paid for the session & this whole saga will have cost ME over £250 by te time I have visited G Force ! b) I dont think I should be paying for your research & development costs ! c) What is to stop you taking your car to the three rollers I am using !
The wheels figure was 247 compared to 227 on your rollers apparently ie 8.8% difference !
You didnt know where to connect the boost pipe as you called me over for assistance !
I apologise for doubting that this is your job ! MY MISTAKE !
I didnt feel necessary to publish them as a) You havent paid for the session & this whole saga will have cost ME over £250 by te time I have visited G Force ! b) I dont think I should be paying for your research & development costs ! c) What is to stop you taking your car to the three rollers I am using !
23 March 2005, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Fulham71
I know you are trying to find out my at the wheels figures as you are on the phone to Power Engineering asking for them now !
The wheels figure was 247 compared to 227 on your rollers apparently ie 8.8% difference !
You didnt know where to connect the boost pipe as you called me over for assistance !
I apologise for doubting that this is your job ! MY MISTAKE !
I didnt feel necessary to publish them as a) You havent paid for the session & this whole saga will have cost ME over £250 by te time I have visited G Force ! b) I dont think I should be paying for your research & development costs ! c) What is to stop you taking your car to the three rollers I am using !
The wheels figure was 247 compared to 227 on your rollers apparently ie 8.8% difference !
You didnt know where to connect the boost pipe as you called me over for assistance !
I apologise for doubting that this is your job ! MY MISTAKE !
I didnt feel necessary to publish them as a) You havent paid for the session & this whole saga will have cost ME over £250 by te time I have visited G Force ! b) I dont think I should be paying for your research & development costs ! c) What is to stop you taking your car to the three rollers I am using !
23 March 2005, 12:26 PM
#178
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Right chaps I think the only way to resolve this is to wait for all the relevent info to be collected by running the cars and posting the graphs, then compare notes, no point bitching until then 
AP
AP
23 March 2005, 12:27 PM
#179
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Originally Posted by Fulham71
The wheels figure was 247 compared to 227 on your rollers apparently ie 8.8% difference !
I'm off to P/E and my road to compare the same roads on the same day. As i have said. I will publish the results.
23 March 2005, 02:31 PM
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it would be interesting to know what car you are going to take ? is there any chance you could take something thats standard ? That would also give a benchmark manufacturers figure to compare to !
Can you arrange this ?
Why not also go to G Force as you have spent the last 4 days on Surrey Scoobies comparing your rollers to theirs & stating that yours are indentical in every way !!
I am sure that G Force will try to & fit you in if you want to go there !
If I am wrong then I will admit it but if your rollers are found to be reading incorrectly I would appreciate it if you gave my running money to Charity !
Can you arrange this ?
Why not also go to G Force as you have spent the last 4 days on Surrey Scoobies comparing your rollers to theirs & stating that yours are indentical in every way !!
I am sure that G Force will try to & fit you in if you want to go there !
If I am wrong then I will admit it but if your rollers are found to be reading incorrectly I would appreciate it if you gave my running money to Charity !