pslewis

Its market forces, mummy and daddy have made so much money on their houses that they can borrow against that wealth to help their children out (and if they do, the prices go UP!)

If they didn't the prices would adjust accordingly.

The prices are such that they attract a buyer, so the prices are right (you might not like it if you can't afford it) BUT the price IS right for seller and buyer alike.

So? what do you do if you cannot buy when all around seem to be managing?? You get money, get a better paid job, move to another area, ask mummy and daddy, rent

Its your CHOICE!

And all this cr4p about taxes .... there is £x to buy a house, either ALL the £x goes to the seller OR some of £x goes to the seller and some goes to the government to help the elderly, young and sufferring ... its a complete MYTH to think that the price that had to be paid would be any different! (its the split that differs!) Nothing else!

So, make your choices - do something if you don't like what you have got - but STOP Moaning and Whinging and Whineing and Bleeting On, ON, ON and ON!!

Pete

Diesel

Best nonsense for a while Pete - congrats!

Explain to me again how you get your hands on these rich mummies and daddies that so many lack? Does access depend on mamma and papa voting labour whilst happily downgrading to a smaller house to release some equity?

Or maybe you would happily have pensioners paying mortagages to fund this new 'new-socialist' kiddy-friendly 'roof over yer head' equation. [PS pensions took a hammering btw]

Bring Michael Foot-in-the-door back I say - you new Labour loons talk even more doo doo D

pslewis

Sorry you don't understand simple economics .... maybe your lack of intelligence will hold you back far more than any government would?

Pete

Chip

Now we know your having a laugh.

Chip

Deep Singh

We are being screwd by Labour taxatiion far more than Tories ever did. Example;
I pay 40% tax on my income, I save some money grab my ***** and buy an investment property. The money I put down as a deposit has already been taxed,but I pay stamp duty on top of that for the pleasure.\I also pay VAT on the estates agent fees and the solicitors fees. I now have to\pay tax on a proportion of the rental income!
When I come to sell 40% capital gains tax and inheritance tax if I'm dead and it goes to a relative!!!!!!!
If I lose money at any point the Govt does'nt want to know or help,I'm just a Capitalist who took a risk and failed. If I make a penny the govt will bleed me dry.
WHEN WILL THIS COUNTRY LEARN LABOUR IS NOT GOOD FOR NEW BUSINESS AND THE ENTREPENEUR!!

andy1505

I have been to the tory site, still have trouble understanding their policy's most of their policy is just saying how badly labour are doing and not what they would do, you know facts and figures. Just a tip from an ex accountant look at the tax laws closely from 12 years ago and you will see that realistically the laws have been tweaked but not changed. You earn it you pay tax on it simple.

pslewis

Can't see anything wrong with the above .... you are clearly very wealthy - the very least you can do is to share some of your good fortune on those less able to fund themselves?! Surely?

Unless, of course, you are a true Tory - and couldn't give a flying fukc about anyone else except yourself?!

I, for one, am glad those Tory days are OVER!! Just pay your due and stop crying you big baby!!

Pete

unclebuck

Oh.... why can't you shutup....

pslewis

Oh .... why cant you stop posting on threads you don't want to read?

Pete

antera309

It's the lack of changes that's the problem. The taxation thresholds have not changed in line with inflation or the state of the market. This applies to income tax, inheritance tax and stamp duty.

It's particularly noticable in those taxes linked to property value, due to the wildly inflated prices. 10 years ago, only the very largest and most desirable residences breached the £250k higher stamp duty threshold. Now your average 3-bed semi in the South East is worth more than this.

The Government are making a mint out of the property boom, and ensuring they continue to do so by restricting the supply of housing.

It's all a way of raising taxes without having to announce that they are doing so. Stealth Taxation at it's worst.

We all accept that we have to pay tax. We all accept that we have to pay more than we did before to finance improvements to the NHS etc. But it's the devious, underhanded methods that this Government use to make the increases that really annoys me.

I enjoy a good Political debate, me. Of course, anyone who wants to duck out of this discussion and go and sit in the corner like a good little boy blindly eating whatever bullsh*t propaganda the Government decides to feed them is welcome to do so.

Diesel

Would SN's very own 'Robin Hood' brainbox therefore be good enough to further simplify his simplistic economics then? Is it 'having cash rich parents = everything in house buying economics is fair since Toneee got in' - dohhhh, soreeeee; now I gettit!!!

People like me and Deep (and millions of others) thrive DESPITE this government, certainly not cos of it

Chip - he's always having a laugh m8 as you say, but that's ok, and I shouldnt rise to it However I'm stuck at work at 22:10 on a Sunday with a few minutes to spare. I'm here cos I'm a grafter not a sponger - that probably makes me a selfish nasty capitalist in PS's 'pound of flesh' book !!!

Off to count my precious, MY money LOL!!!

andy1505

What Governments underhand, no never!! lol.

antera309

So, assuming that one (as a first time buyer) is not fortunate enough to have wealthy and generous parents (or even have parents at all), that just leaves:

get a better paid job, move to another area, rent

Then you find out that getting a well paid job and moving to a cheaper area are mutually exclusive.

So, what CHOICE are you left with?

I'm not surprised there's a consumer spending boom. I'm part of it. Because I cannot possibly afford to buy a house and renting is so cheap, my money goes on other things.

Thinking about it, as long as I never have Children, my lifestyle is perfectly sustainable. So maybe I shouldn't be complaining at all! Anyone want to sell me a mint STi v8? :-) lol

antera309

New Labour are just as bad, they're just better at getting away with it!!

I vote Conservative because they don't fly the "Motorists are Evil" banner like Labour do, and feedom to travel is important to me. But they're not perfect by any means.

As for stealth taxation, now that Labour have shown how easy it is to get away with, any future Government is likely to follow suit anyway.

blueone

Our society is morally corrupt; it is this corruption that has created a feeding frenzy of consumerism which has not been seen since the Industrial Revolution. How was the boom of the IR fuelled? By the exploitation of the peoples for their labour. While the poor people are working for the rich people, who or what is looking after their children and providing them with their socialisation?
But on the back of this, who are the first to complain that the poor people’s children are out of control, with no morals, cause trouble and commit crimes. That’s right it’s the very ones who created the situation by exploiting the poor people for their labour. As long as our value system allows financial wealth to be based on accommodation our society will be in an unbalanced state of flux, where the lucky are only lucky at the expense of others need for a basic human right. To remove poverty, we have to remove the association of wealth with what people need to survive. Wealth in itself is not wrong; it is the exploitation of basic human needs to gain wealth which is morally abhorrent. The sooner mankind grows up and stops this dogma of exploitation of basic need the sooner we will see a true and lasting peace in the World. Q.E.D.

antera309

Well said blueone. Can't argue with any of that.

julian N/W wrx my93

my house cost me £23k 20 months ago on the estate i grew up on.
i made a CHOICE to buy a cheaper house and keep my scooby cos i "only" earn £18k a year.

so do i sacrifice the scooby for a overpriced house in a different area.....?

oh, you can get em for as little as £13k where i live a couple of months wages to some of you lot!

pslewis

Well done, that man .... made a choice and sticks by it, no blubberring!!

Life is full of choices, some hard, some easy - we make them each day, if you get it wrong its not the governments fault!

About time we all stood up and took responsibilty for our actions rather than take the easy route of blaming Labour!!

The way of the world is that those who have, have - those who don't, either go out and get or sit crying and do BU99ER ALL!!

If you can't afford what you want, tough - get up AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!!

Pete

pbee

I agree with a lot that has been written on this thread.

To be honest I feel the government has very little effect on our day to day lives allthough this is slowly changing. Yes I do feel that labour has done this country a misfortune, with numerous tax rises and public spending gone out of control, (how many billions are the public coffers in debt since labour has been in power) and for what, are any services actually any better ?. fiddled figures may say so but in reality no.

The housing boom would of happened under any government, global economics have made this happen, as for demand for houses the labour government has made so much more brown and greenfield land available for building, but no developer would touch them due to costs and profit calculations. And of course there are developmental costs building schools road improvements, libraries. every big developer is aware of the blackmailing policies of the government and councils in regard to development. You want to build 400 houses sure you must build a school a recreation centre improve roads x y z. this all adds up to inflated house prices that we pay for, yet what has happened to the money being payed in taxes for these neccesary items. and pslewis says labour are not corrupt. every government is corrup it is just how good they are at covering it up, and at what level it affects the people voting for them.

ok so we are one of the highest taxxed people in the world and have one of the most degraded infrastructures and lack of investment in the western world. So where is all our tax money going ???. And it seems when it is invested it is so badly spent it doesnt have any affect.

My major grudge isnt agaisnt tax this will never change whats the point in argueing about it. You earn you pay, the amount you have left it is upto you how you spend. Everything I have I pay for, Ok I have a big mortgage but who doesnt now days. The amount of people I know living beyond their means is crazy. i know 2 couples who both had in excess of 30k of debt. they remortgaged their house payed off the debt and started again, That is not the governments fault allthough I do believe there should be controls on the amount of debt misguided people can get themselves into.

oh yes back to the grudge, the Political meddling and controls this government want to impose tracking, ID cards. persecution of motorists (allthough i see this as a stealth tax), this really gets my groat they have a thirst for power and will abbolish rights and freedom of speech to get what they want. I can see civil action of some degree in the future if this trend continues.

If you dont like it dont vote labour, i will not and never will vote labour, the tories may be toffe nosed ***** but at least they now what they are doing to some degree, Gordon Brown's abacus must be missing its ***** cos that muppet cannot keep book. labour if not stopped will destroy this country and everything it stands for. Anybody who cannot see this is a fool.

Pete I am suprised you are a continous labour supporter, with all this PC bollocks that surrounds the labour party nuclear weapons / power is a thing of the past, with the ever decreasing defence budgets we will have no need for large weapons and contractors who look after them just pea's and plastic tubes.

DavidBrown

It's all very easy to say that when you don't have anything yourself, almost idealistic student talk. However, if you're lucky/skillfull enough to make something of yourself, it's pretty galling to find yourself taxed at every turn by a government insistent on wasting money so flagrantly.

Nobody likes paying taxes for sure.. but when your hard earned isn't spent on the services you think your taxes go to (crime, health etc) then it's a hard pill to swallow.

Not only that, other countries manage to supply far better services for much lower taxes..

davegtt

You know Pete does have a point. you moan about not being able to afford a house, well facing facts you never will unless instead of being part of the consumer spending boom SAVE. if you lived with your parents for a month and paid £50 rent presumably all the meals would be cooked for you, you could stay in with a DVD and a few tins of stella and save a fortune but all the lads I know go out and blow a good £50 a night boozing and what have ya, buying a new telly and hifi for their room which they wont watch/listen too since they're rarely home, then come end of the month they wonder why they are skint and its all labours fault they cant afford a house....

1 thing that can and should be said for people who cant afford a house is SAVE, then your time will come and 1 day who knows you'll probably be better off than those with a £150k morgage on a house now only worth £100k for example (I aint saying there will be a crash btw, just a simple point)

Dave

davegtt

no matter how much we moan about this though no matter which government are voted in nothing will change on this level so its just a matter of getting your head down and get on with it

Deep Singh

D'ont be so ignorant! You have no idea whether I am wealthy or not! You have no idea what sacrifices I may have made to scrape together my pennies.
This is a democracy,if I have an issue with the amount of tax I pay it is my RIGHT to vocalise that. I'm sure you agree unless you are a Communist.
I, and many others feel that there is too high a level,and too many layers of taxation in this country. This does not make us extreme right wing Tory boys,we just have an issue with Mr Blair/Brown.
I happen to work in the NHS,and I can tell you people would be horrified to know how many tens of millions of pounds of OUR money is wasted to try and meet artificial targets to get this govt reelected. I have first hand experience of this cash being wasted,ie millions a year.
It is not wingeing to question these matters its our duty.

robuk

Didn't think it would take you as long as you have taken to start the "bash Maggie T" bullsh$t.......... How about taking your blindfold off and seeing whats really going on in this country!!!!!!!!! you may well be very suprised...... and if your not I suggest you apply to President Tony for a job, your just the type of person he needs after loosing his resident brown nosed boys, over the last year....

Rob

Leslie

PSL,

You really are a bit of a "Space Cadet" You must be one of those dyed in the wool old labour chaps who allowed himself to be conned with all the rest of them-many of whom are beginning to see the light. NL really sold you the dummy and you are too bigoted to see what has been happening.

The apparent wealth we see is down to borrowing heavily as has been mentioned. The Goverment is borrowing frantically too to keep the illusion alive until after the next election. Sooner or later all the pigeons will come home to roost and that is when it will all fall apart.

This bunch in power at the moment have been very good at so called "spinning" which is another word for lying either straight, or by witholding the truth. They have avoided doing anything significant for the electorate but just told us that they were. Everything has been slanted in the direction of their own careers should they ever con the country into federation with the Eu. Now there is a real example of fiddling, the Commissioner's audits have not been accepted for the last ten years now! I certainly would not trust our country to their control.

The fact remains that despite their skill at employing the right people to tell us all how wonderful they are, they are either grossly incompetent at running the country or they just don't have the political will to do it anyway.

You can argue all you like about the other parties, They have learned not to publish their policies too soon because NL will just pinch them as they have before. We shall know soon enough before the election.

The question is, do you vote a government back in who have demonstrated beyond all doubt the damage they can do to the country, or do you give the others a chance on the premise that they certainly can't do much worse?

If they are voted back in, the sky will be the limit when it comes to the destruction of our ideals and our traditional way of life.

Les

antera309

On the face of it, saving up seems like a good option. The trouble is, saving takes time. In the time it took for me to save £10k, the price of my target property had gone up by £40k. I would have been better off not bothering.

We all know the house price boom is down to market factors (supply & demand basically) not the Government, but it's very annoying to see that they are incentivising greedy buy-to-let investors while doing NOTHING to help struggling first-time buyers that just want somewhere to live.

A stamp duty discount (or preferably a complete exemption) for first-time buyers would be a good place to start.

tucker101uk

Can I just say in reply to a few of the posts above that i am a 20 year old with a full time job, I pay 350 a month for a houseshare... The rest of my income goes on food, petrol and general living costs. My outgoings just about underweigh my incomings, resulting in about 250-350 of savings a month

At this rate i have NO chance of buying a house until i am nearly 40 -

And then when i retire i have no money because the goverment has f**ked the pension schemes. I have no faith in this country, the government, or the people in it.

Granted everyone spends on credit cards - but the fact is I dont have a credit card, never got a loan etc. i have a 500 quid overdraft which i rarely use, and thats it.

I dont owe anyone squat, but still cant afford to even think about buying.

Answer me that.

davegtt

what Im saying is save and in time you'll be able to afford a house, they cant and wont keep going up..... and if you have some cash behind you away you go in time. end of the day its your choice. save and evenutally own your own home or sit and whine about not being able to afford it now. its not gonna change no matter whos running the country.

Diesel

Well said Leslie and well sorted on the Wool/Eyes/Trees/Wood affliction affecting certain individuals!

Actually, listening to some here I wonder who the socialists are or what that concept means by now??? I never thought I WAS one [I believe in graft, application and effort not handouts, rounding society down and nannying] but there is SO little empathy with the less well off here. Does no one understand the challenge of saving £20k to put down on a house will still enjoying being a youngster (and watching the house get further out of your reach as your small pot grows…)? Is it really unfair to aspire to a decent car and a telly bigger than a portable?

We must all live within our means, but aspirations should be encouraged not treated as some curse where you are perceived to be rising above your station or be unrealistic. Listening to some of you lot here I wonder who the socialists are (did I mention that)

davegtt

Diesel, Im not earning big money and Im still in my youth (25) I think and yes I understand the concept of saving 20k, but what other choice do you have? honestly? apart from sit and b!tch about those who have done what was needed instead of looking for sypathy cause thats what it looks like. I hate paying these over inflated taxes etc but no matter who I vote for I'll still be paying them tomorrow so I'll just get my head down and get on with it