END OF THE WORLD ON CH 4 NOW.
10 January 2005, 12:57 PM
#31
I used to be in denial about the situation we're in. I stuck my head in the sand and hoped it would all go away and someone would sort it out for us.
But, I only have to see how many planes use heathrow, see how many cars are used in the US/rest of the world to know that we will see the end of fossil fuels in our life time. Gargantuan levels of fuel are used every day and we are running out of places to look for new supplies. ****!
Then, if the planet can't sort out the carbon emissions and we heat up, we'll start to flood. Within 20 years at worst or perhaps it'll take 100 - who knows, but the scenario is there and knowbody really wants to do anything individually (just in case it's true) as it's too inconvenient.
China and India could be the death of us all. Forget the petty wars of the past or terrorism or religion, the next wars will be for territory out of desperation. It's gonna get ugly.
I'd like to believe the government has a master plan to sort it out, that other governments are working on this as well but I have a bad feeling that it'll be too little too late. Long term policies need to be more draconian but as others have said, they are vote losers and not a valid propersition.
Change is inevitable and we need to keep up. We'll be alright but our kids won't
It's all downhill from here so make the most of it.
F
But, I only have to see how many planes use heathrow, see how many cars are used in the US/rest of the world to know that we will see the end of fossil fuels in our life time. Gargantuan levels of fuel are used every day and we are running out of places to look for new supplies. ****!
Then, if the planet can't sort out the carbon emissions and we heat up, we'll start to flood. Within 20 years at worst or perhaps it'll take 100 - who knows, but the scenario is there and knowbody really wants to do anything individually (just in case it's true) as it's too inconvenient.
China and India could be the death of us all. Forget the petty wars of the past or terrorism or religion, the next wars will be for territory out of desperation. It's gonna get ugly.
I'd like to believe the government has a master plan to sort it out, that other governments are working on this as well but I have a bad feeling that it'll be too little too late. Long term policies need to be more draconian but as others have said, they are vote losers and not a valid propersition.
Change is inevitable and we need to keep up. We'll be alright but our kids won't
It's all downhill from here so make the most of it.F
10 January 2005, 01:31 PM
#32
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Didn't see it earlier in this thread so just wanted to point out that I saw a documentary some years ago that said that if every electricity plant globally was nuclear then there would only be enough nuclear fuel for about 10 years.
And while I am here, whilst there is no doubt mankind is slowly destroying the planet, global warming can not be blamed on us just yet. We are still within the random noise of the last few tens of thousand years, temperature wise. Please refer to an interesting exibit all about it in the Natural History Museum in London if you don't belive me. A child could understand it.
Cheers
And while I am here, whilst there is no doubt mankind is slowly destroying the planet, global warming can not be blamed on us just yet. We are still within the random noise of the last few tens of thousand years, temperature wise. Please refer to an interesting exibit all about it in the Natural History Museum in London if you don't belive me. A child could understand it.
Cheers
10 January 2005, 01:40 PM
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My guess is that if we resurrect this thread in 50 years' time, all the "it's a load of hype" proponents will be severely embarrassed, if changes aren't made soon. You're unlikely to get much sympathy on a petrol-guzzling car site of course, but i don't think some people fully appreciate how much damage 6 billion (that's six thousand million) people can do to a planet. Our ecosystem *is* relatively fragile, but of course it's damned inconvenient to give up the comfortable lifestyles we're all accustomed to now. Nature will have its way in the end, it always does...
10 January 2005, 01:51 PM
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" My guess is ...", etc etc. Try reading the facts rather than the hype!
Not saying that mankind is not screwing the planet up BUT the thread started about man-made global warming. Which is a load of old bull and not supported by the facts. My own view is that cars emit lots of stuff, CO2 is the least of our worries. The nitrous oxides etc are more harmful to humans and then there is the effect of cargiogenic benzine in petrol - which you get a good old whiff of as you fill up with Optimax..... Nope, global warming is the least of your worries....
Dave
Not saying that mankind is not screwing the planet up BUT the thread started about man-made global warming. Which is a load of old bull and not supported by the facts. My own view is that cars emit lots of stuff, CO2 is the least of our worries. The nitrous oxides etc are more harmful to humans and then there is the effect of cargiogenic benzine in petrol - which you get a good old whiff of as you fill up with Optimax..... Nope, global warming is the least of your worries....
Dave
10 January 2005, 02:01 PM
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Semantics. You're guessing as much as anybody. Fact - the world and the climate is changing faster than can be attributed to natural causes. If you want to dismiss cars as a partial reason for that effect then fine, go ahead if that's convenient for you, but in the end it'll come back and bite us all on the ****, just as it's doing with increasing regularity now.
10 January 2005, 02:20 PM
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It's like the 'drink problem' analogy. Until the alchoholic admits he has a problem with his consumption there's not a lot that can be done to find a solution.
10 January 2005, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by DarkStar66
Take the theory of how the dinosaurs were wiped out when a giant meteorite hit the Gulf of Mexico and threw up thousands of tons of earth and ash into the atmosphere. Apparently the debris covered the sun around most of the world and caused a permanent winter for many years. Yet lots of plants and creatures survived and everything went back to normal.
I know what you are trying to say though. Life on earth will not end. It would just be different that we know it as now. It will be a new "normal"... until the next global catastrophe..
10 January 2005, 05:59 PM
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I'm just waiting for the next major mutation in the influenza virus.
If it was particularly virulent towards people who are used to living in airconditioned/centrally heated houses then that'd sort the whole problem out doublequick.
If it was particularly virulent towards people who are used to living in airconditioned/centrally heated houses then that'd sort the whole problem out doublequick.
10 January 2005, 06:11 PM
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Havent read all the thread yet but I have a friend who seems to think he knows a lot about something called zero point and aparently this is the future of energy production.
I remember him quoting some ludicrus fact that there are enough fluctuations in the space of a cup to boil the oceans 8 times over.
God knows how it works.
Apparently there have been successful generators of some sort already, but have been conviscated by the powers that be.
I remember him quoting some ludicrus fact that there are enough fluctuations in the space of a cup to boil the oceans 8 times over.
God knows how it works.
Apparently there have been successful generators of some sort already, but have been conviscated by the powers that be.
10 January 2005, 06:40 PM
#40
Your talking about black holes IIRC. It's just sci-fi at the moment.
People are living too long and the easy life is expanding the world population too fast. We need a cull!
F
People are living too long and the easy life is expanding the world population too fast. We need a cull!
F
10 January 2005, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by TelBoy
Semantics. You're guessing as much as anybody. Fact - the world and the climate is changing faster than can be attributed to natural causes. If you want to dismiss cars as a partial reason for that effect then fine, go ahead if that's convenient for you, but in the end it'll come back and bite us all on the ****, just as it's doing with increasing regularity now.
The first line: "Computer models forecast rapidly rising global temperatures, but data from weather satellites and balloon instruments show no warming whatsoever ...". These computer models also scr&w up whe asked to *predict* past climate changes which actually existed. The Medieval Warm period for example. That actually occurred with no cars or planes spewing out CO2 into the atmosphere. Must have been the metahne from all those cows then. Or all those bonfires they kept having. Couldn't possibly have been due to cirsumstances that were nothing to do with man at all could they ...???
BS the lot of it. If the climate is changing (and no evidence to show anything more than normal variability) then man has nowt to do with it ... if they had why do thousands of *environmentalists travel thousands of miles by JET to Kyoto agreement summitts - to discuss saving the world when, in their own words, they are using one of the more dangerous forms of transport that is causing it..???
The real reasons are mentioned at http://www.sepp.org/reality/realagenda.html
Candas environment minister:
"Ms. Stewart said that, 'as minister of the environment, I am very worried about global warming,' which for a politician isn't saying much. Politicians are habitually 'very worried' about one thing or another. The trouble starts when they use their power to fix problems they're worried about, even if the problems don't exist. Ms. Stewart said she's prepared to do exactly that. 'No matter if the science is all phony,' she said, 'there are collateral environmental benefits.' "
In other words, social engineering!!
Oh, and go look at: http://www.john-daly.com/history.htm for an interesting history of how the global warming scare came about .... (too long to post here).
Enjoy!
Dave
Last edited by hutton_d; 10 January 2005 at 08:50 PM. Reason: 'cos I forgot summat ...
10 January 2005, 10:35 PM
#42
Well Dave, I hope you're right but one thing is for sure, the oil and gas will run out and we'll be here to witness it. What will run our cars and our lives then? But wait a minute, that'll sort out the CO2 emissions anyway. Hurrah we're saved...
F
F
10 January 2005, 10:56 PM
#43
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Originally Posted by farmer1
Havent read all the thread yet but I have a friend who seems to think he knows a lot about something called zero point and aparently this is the future of energy production.
I remember him quoting some ludicrus fact that there are enough fluctuations in the space of a cup to boil the oceans 8 times over.
God knows how it works.
Apparently there have been successful generators of some sort already, but have been conviscated by the powers that be.
I remember him quoting some ludicrus fact that there are enough fluctuations in the space of a cup to boil the oceans 8 times over.
God knows how it works.
Apparently there have been successful generators of some sort already, but have been conviscated by the powers that be.
I'm sure you used to spell better than that when annoying people on Scoobyzone? 
Anyway, "zero point energy" may be a possible solution. There are numerous alleged instances where it seems that energy has been extracted from water. These range from variations on water hammer, to variations on electrolysis to the infamous "cold fusion" demonstration by a couple of UK scientists a few years back. However, there has been no proven instances of this phenomenon working. Conspiracy theorists suggest that this is due to oil companies or whatever covering up technology that could eat into their profits.
Whilst I keep an open mind about the possibilities, until it is proven I wouldn't hold my breath that zero point energy exists in the form your friend suggests (I'd be interested to learn where he gets his figures for stored energy from?). Conspiracy theorists have suggested a lot of things over the years, not all of them accurate.
10 January 2005, 11:04 PM
#44
You all go on like the planet gives a toss about us, like we matter in some way, we only matter to ourselves, the Cockroaches are just waiting their turn thats all.
10 January 2005, 11:31 PM
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Originally Posted by J4CKO
You all go on like the planet gives a toss about us, like we matter in some way, we only matter to ourselves, the Cockroaches are just waiting their turn thats all.
10 January 2005, 11:37 PM
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Some seem to ignore what I said before....
The last 100 years has seen industrialisation on a MASSIVE scale. The last 100 years is literally a few seconds in comparison to the time the planet has existed.
Can anyone really feel that what we've done in the last 100 years can have had zero effect on the fragile eco-system?????
We're trying to influence natural eco-systems, we're delaying mortality (and hence the population of the planet is increasing faster than it ever has), and we're mucking around with the planet's atmosphere (our protective layer after all!).
The last 100 years has seen industrialisation on a MASSIVE scale. The last 100 years is literally a few seconds in comparison to the time the planet has existed.
Can anyone really feel that what we've done in the last 100 years can have had zero effect on the fragile eco-system?????
We're trying to influence natural eco-systems, we're delaying mortality (and hence the population of the planet is increasing faster than it ever has), and we're mucking around with the planet's atmosphere (our protective layer after all!).
11 January 2005, 09:43 AM
#48
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Originally Posted by Floyd
Your talking about black holes IIRC. It's just sci-fi at the moment.
People are living too long and the easy life is expanding the world population too fast. We need a cull!
F
People are living too long and the easy life is expanding the world population too fast. We need a cull!
F
11 January 2005, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by hutton_d
What you mean is that you've been taken in by the greens who have been cooking up computer models to show the results that they want.
With respect, utter bollox. But it's your right to believe that. At the end of the day, i think we both agree that the Earth is in trouble, and that if we both do our little bit, albeit in a different manner, then we might hopefully delay the process. Here's hoping.
11 January 2005, 10:37 AM
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Didn't see the programme so can't comment on it's content BUT I would strongly recommend that anyone who's interested/concerned about these issues should read "The Skeptical Environmentalist" by Bjorn Lomborg [ISBN 0521010683].
It's a factual book devoid of the emotional spin which always seem to accompany environmental issues - I for one found it both fascinating and enlightening.
The author's (one of the world's top 100 most influential people according to Time magazine) website is here - http://www.lomborg.com/books.htm
It's a factual book devoid of the emotional spin which always seem to accompany environmental issues - I for one found it both fascinating and enlightening.
The author's (one of the world's top 100 most influential people according to Time magazine) website is here - http://www.lomborg.com/books.htm
11 January 2005, 10:44 AM
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Anybody who spells sceptical with a k deserves all he gets!! 
The thing is, things are changing *so* quickly at the moment that any studies of that sort are in my opinion close to being worthless. Maybe we're just all noticing it more, but to the everage man on the street, weather-related headlines are taking up a LOT more coverage than probably any of us can ever remember. Either that's a coincidence and something we can ignore, or an early warning not to expect to be able to continue to live the life of consumption that wer'e all accustomed to now. I know which my money's on.
The thing is, things are changing *so* quickly at the moment that any studies of that sort are in my opinion close to being worthless. Maybe we're just all noticing it more, but to the everage man on the street, weather-related headlines are taking up a LOT more coverage than probably any of us can ever remember. Either that's a coincidence and something we can ignore, or an early warning not to expect to be able to continue to live the life of consumption that wer'e all accustomed to now. I know which my money's on.
11 January 2005, 10:47 AM
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TelBoy - check out the facts. The weather is not happening *more* - just that events are getting reported more .....
Dave
PS: just to make sure you understand where I'm coming from - IF the climate is changing it is NOT man that is doing it. Anyone heard of the sun ... that big shiny, sometimes warm, globe we see in the sky ?????
Dave
PS: just to make sure you understand where I'm coming from - IF the climate is changing it is NOT man that is doing it. Anyone heard of the sun ... that big shiny, sometimes warm, globe we see in the sky ?????
11 January 2005, 11:36 AM
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What about all this stuff about the warm salt water flows in the Atlantic Ocean causing a new ice age?
Anyone care to debunk this? This was from another of this kind of programme a while back.
Anyone care to debunk this? This was from another of this kind of programme a while back.
11 January 2005, 01:02 PM
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A lot of the scientific analysis on enhanced global warming is based on "bad science", extrapolations from computer models of chaotic systems that can be tweaked until they give the answer the "researcher" originally thought of.
The earth does not have a fragile eco system at all, otherwise it would not have supported life for 100s of millions of years. The earth has an amazingly robust eco system and the impact that man has had is a tiny drop in the ocean compared to what nature has thrown at it. It is true that species mean nothing to nature and mankind could be wiped out at the drop of a hat but this is more likely to occur from a natural disaster than mans' doing, and it is still enormously unlikely.
Are we really seeing extremes of weather? No - in recent history the earth has been hotter and cooler than it is today (medieval warm period 13th century, little ice age 18th century) and neither of these have anything to do with mans' CO2 generation.
The use of finite natural resources is a concern... but don't drag it down to the lies and social engineering associated with "enhanced global warming"
BTW skeptical is the correct spelling if you are writing US English!
The earth does not have a fragile eco system at all, otherwise it would not have supported life for 100s of millions of years. The earth has an amazingly robust eco system and the impact that man has had is a tiny drop in the ocean compared to what nature has thrown at it. It is true that species mean nothing to nature and mankind could be wiped out at the drop of a hat but this is more likely to occur from a natural disaster than mans' doing, and it is still enormously unlikely.
Are we really seeing extremes of weather? No - in recent history the earth has been hotter and cooler than it is today (medieval warm period 13th century, little ice age 18th century) and neither of these have anything to do with mans' CO2 generation.
The use of finite natural resources is a concern... but don't drag it down to the lies and social engineering associated with "enhanced global warming"
BTW skeptical is the correct spelling if you are writing US English!
11 January 2005, 01:13 PM
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I hear what you're saying Mr Chief, and i so want to believe you're right, i really do.
However, nowhere in that last 100s of millions of years has the Earth had to support over 6 billion people, with over a billion CO2 emitting motor vehicles, never mind the waste products from industry and so on.
I think any hopes for a nice fluffy ending are naive at best. It's these attitudes, if you don't mind me saying, which will make people like yourself do nothing to alter their behaviour patterns, and leave it all to future generations. You gotta be pretty damn sure of your outcome if that's a world you want your kids to grow up in, in my opinion...
However, nowhere in that last 100s of millions of years has the Earth had to support over 6 billion people, with over a billion CO2 emitting motor vehicles, never mind the waste products from industry and so on.
I think any hopes for a nice fluffy ending are naive at best. It's these attitudes, if you don't mind me saying, which will make people like yourself do nothing to alter their behaviour patterns, and leave it all to future generations. You gotta be pretty damn sure of your outcome if that's a world you want your kids to grow up in, in my opinion...
11 January 2005, 01:26 PM
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A big volcanic eruption could put the volume of CO2 into the atmosphere that mankind has ever produced burning fossil fuels in a couple of weeks. The amount generated by six billion people, in the scale that nature is used to, really isn't that much.
I would say there is a greater danger from overreacting to bad science than there is adhering to it "just in case" - but the losses aren't always obvious. Here is an example which I haven't looked into in great detail but is often quoted.
I would say there is a greater danger from overreacting to bad science than there is adhering to it "just in case" - but the losses aren't always obvious. Here is an example which I haven't looked into in great detail but is often quoted.
11 January 2005, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Tentenths
Didn't see the programme so can't comment on it's content BUT I would strongly recommend that anyone who's interested/concerned about these issues should read "The Skeptical Environmentalist" by Bjorn Lomborg [ISBN 0521010683].
It's a factual book devoid of the emotional spin which always seem to accompany environmental issues - I for one found it both fascinating and enlightening.
The author's (one of the world's top 100 most influential people according to Time magazine) website is here - http://www.lomborg.com/books.htm
It's a factual book devoid of the emotional spin which always seem to accompany environmental issues - I for one found it both fascinating and enlightening.
The author's (one of the world's top 100 most influential people according to Time magazine) website is here - http://www.lomborg.com/books.htm
11 January 2005, 01:35 PM
#60
SC, Perhaps we should not mention how fragile the ecosystem is but how fragile humans are? Yes the earth will recover from what man throws at it but will man survive his interference with the ecosystem? Many species will survive and others will evolve but man may cease to exist...
F
F