WYIOC - Pre & Post Meeting Comments/Musings
30 November 2004, 10:36 PM
#31
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Originally Posted by Alan C
They don't like change and the organisation is littered with relics who are doing it by the book, because they had to go through it..
Seems like a lot of heartache and time spent for dubious benefit/a kick in the nads, depending on whether your tester has misplaced his false teeth.....
30 November 2004, 10:49 PM
#32
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Valid point mate.
You're right in that there's no direct benefit in terms of reduced insurance (some do but you'd pay a higher premium from these anyway) or discounts in other areas..
It's a relatively small outlay for the test and driving checks... but the main thing for me was confidence.. It's a tough course with quite alot of technical driving required.. lots of vision and a greater understanding of the road you're on, about to to be on and the other traffic around you...
I was lucky in that I went to Observer ('one up' from advanced and able to take a driver up to advance level, but not examine) and I did a bit of Roadcraft... This was in Cyprus, so the rules were probably a little more 'relaxed', but I was still covered in sweat after my 90 min test...
So yes, I think its worth it.. pride in achieving something that is quite tough and which does make you a better driver.. Obviously not in a track kinda way. But one who is more tuned to what's happening around him. I still enjoy using the techniques to this day, though I am VERY rusty. But there's no difference between a crap examiner when you trying to shed your L plates, to a crap advanced examiner who's a bit picky or having a bad day..
You're right in that there's no direct benefit in terms of reduced insurance (some do but you'd pay a higher premium from these anyway) or discounts in other areas..
It's a relatively small outlay for the test and driving checks... but the main thing for me was confidence.. It's a tough course with quite alot of technical driving required.. lots of vision and a greater understanding of the road you're on, about to to be on and the other traffic around you...
I was lucky in that I went to Observer ('one up' from advanced and able to take a driver up to advance level, but not examine) and I did a bit of Roadcraft... This was in Cyprus, so the rules were probably a little more 'relaxed', but I was still covered in sweat after my 90 min test...
So yes, I think its worth it.. pride in achieving something that is quite tough and which does make you a better driver.. Obviously not in a track kinda way. But one who is more tuned to what's happening around him. I still enjoy using the techniques to this day, though I am VERY rusty. But there's no difference between a crap examiner when you trying to shed your L plates, to a crap advanced examiner who's a bit picky or having a bad day..
30 November 2004, 11:09 PM
#33
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Originally Posted by Alan C
....But one who is more tuned to what's happening around him....
01 December 2004, 12:03 AM
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Originally Posted by corradoboy
He wasn't tuned into using 1st and second gear coming back from Ladybower 
01 December 2004, 12:38 AM
#36
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Still seething 
Am going to the monthly check on Sunday and let them look through my "failure list" and see if we can work out some positive points...
As you said Al, it's the pride of doing things and having a good drive using the techniques you pick up but you get a bit miffed when you're pulled up for things you thought were OK or things that are "inherent" in the vehicle design. He was on that it's easier to pass in something like mine over say, a micra, due to having the power and flexibility but it is a damn sight easier in a micra because you know you can't do things (overtaking without a lot of planning) and have to drive it hard at times to make progress so it tends to make you hold back, i.e. plod along at low risk...
He mentioned someone that had just done a refresher observer test in a limited edition wrx (only thing I could come up with was maybe a uk300) and I'm assuming they passed so he's basing it on "the car can do it so it's you." This might seem like a moan / excuse but a potentially bog standard scoob will behave differently to mine - I know from when I've had mine tweaked at the various stages...
"I was probably lucky geting an Ex-met instructor who really enjoyed passing on the knowledge and understood that 60 in a 40 COULD be justified in some safety cases... This showed vision, tolerance and flexibility.. maybe missing in your examiner?"
Spot on and how the real world should operate. I was told an allowance of ±1 or 2 mph on speedo reading and can drive as a "strong" 30 or 40 but no allowance above this when overtaking (I didn't overtake anything on test apart from 1 hgv on M1 who are limited to 56). You can't overtake when you're doing 27 in a 30, 36 in a 40 etc
All the examiners are ex class-1 police drivers so are used to high speed pursuit work (which we aren't taught) but we are supposed to be trained to a "response" driver level which is above "grunt" squad car driver - god help mr crim who does 31mph in an uncalibrated speedo car
you'd never catch them...
Am going to the monthly check on Sunday and let them look through my "failure list" and see if we can work out some positive points...
As you said Al, it's the pride of doing things and having a good drive using the techniques you pick up but you get a bit miffed when you're pulled up for things you thought were OK or things that are "inherent" in the vehicle design. He was on that it's easier to pass in something like mine over say, a micra, due to having the power and flexibility but it is a damn sight easier in a micra because you know you can't do things (overtaking without a lot of planning) and have to drive it hard at times to make progress so it tends to make you hold back, i.e. plod along at low risk...
He mentioned someone that had just done a refresher observer test in a limited edition wrx (only thing I could come up with was maybe a uk300) and I'm assuming they passed so he's basing it on "the car can do it so it's you." This might seem like a moan / excuse but a potentially bog standard scoob will behave differently to mine - I know from when I've had mine tweaked at the various stages...
"I was probably lucky geting an Ex-met instructor who really enjoyed passing on the knowledge and understood that 60 in a 40 COULD be justified in some safety cases... This showed vision, tolerance and flexibility.. maybe missing in your examiner?"
Spot on and how the real world should operate. I was told an allowance of ±1 or 2 mph on speedo reading and can drive as a "strong" 30 or 40 but no allowance above this when overtaking (I didn't overtake anything on test apart from 1 hgv on M1 who are limited to 56). You can't overtake when you're doing 27 in a 30, 36 in a 40 etc
All the examiners are ex class-1 police drivers so are used to high speed pursuit work (which we aren't taught) but we are supposed to be trained to a "response" driver level which is above "grunt" squad car driver - god help mr crim who does 31mph in an uncalibrated speedo car
you'd never catch them...
Last edited by Apple; 01 December 2004 at 12:50 AM.
01 December 2004, 12:43 AM
#37
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Dunno about the retest - will have to reapply via head office so don't hold your breath.
After the microsurgery analysis of the drive and telling me I hadn't passed, I was asked if I was going to become an observer... tum te tum
I want to pass the thing as something positive for me obviously but one in the eye for some others...
After the microsurgery analysis of the drive and telling me I hadn't passed, I was asked if I was going to become an observer...
tum te tum I want to pass the thing as something positive for me obviously but one in the eye for some others...
01 December 2004, 09:34 AM
#38
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Not surprised you're angry about this mate. From what I've read between you & Al, there seems to be no consistency between the various testers.....
Hilarious.... Just imagining a 'low speed pursuit' between a crim and police pursuit.
"If we can't nick him for the armed robbery Sarge, at least we can do him for that 35mph stretch past the school...."
Barmy....
Originally Posted by Apple
All the examiners are ex class-1 police drivers so are used to high speed pursuit work (which we aren't taught) but we are supposed to be trained to a "response" driver level which is above "grunt" squad car driver - god help mr crim who does 31mph in an uncalibrated speedo car you'd never catch them...
you'd never catch them... "If we can't nick him for the armed robbery Sarge, at least we can do him for that 35mph stretch past the school...."
Barmy....
01 December 2004, 02:28 PM
#39
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Originally Posted by Harry_Boy
Well, he's certainly used to them now Dave. In fact, I'm sure that all he was using the other week....
You mean I can use 4th & 5th? I was always taught that these were for Motorways only.. Damn.. That’s why I’m always struggling after 60 mph and my MPG is in single figures…
Another good point about the inconsistency of examination. AFAIK (and happy to be corrected) these guys aren't externally tested to a formal standard as required by a 'normal' examiner. It is very much 'in house' as it is seen as simple personal advancement that is not registered on your licence. The rules by wchich the observers and examiners run is by the ROSPA or IAM derived guidelines.. self regulated.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking the certificate as I think it is a worthwhile advancement. But in mine and Andy's case, you can clearly see the difference in standards..
01 December 2004, 10:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Alan C
As an advanced and conscientious driver, I think you’ll find I was sticking to the speed limit.. Nothing to do with the fact that you have 20-80 BHP more, less fear and are a little more cuckoo on dark, unknown roads ?…
Originally Posted by Alan C
Another good point about the inconsistency of examination. AFAIK (and happy to be corrected) these guys aren't externally tested to a formal standard as required by a 'normal' examiner. It is very much 'in house' as it is seen as simple personal advancement that is not registered on your licence. The rules by wchich the observers and examiners run is by the ROSPA or IAM derived guidelines.. self regulated
03 December 2004, 11:11 AM
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Al, Dave - top eve last night guys....
Al - that is one 'hot' amp you have there..... Still convinced it warped mi laminate....
Dave - 'I can't hear the cello....'
Reply - 'That's 'cos we're listening to Kraftwerk....'
Al - that is one 'hot' amp you have there..... Still convinced it warped mi laminate....
Dave - 'I can't hear the cello....'
Reply - 'That's 'cos we're listening to Kraftwerk....'
03 December 2004, 11:49 AM
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Chris.. Send the bill for the flooring & electricity to dave. He wanted to listen to it..
Yep... another fine evening.. I'm still 'oozing' after that Sara Mclachlan track..
I'm still going to have to do some serious speaker auditioning to find that 'right' match for the system... The S6e's were very good... Speaker testing soon..
I also have a feeling that the floor may have affected the sound somewhat if the details from the isolation thread are anything to go by.. Wooden floor=wooden sound (cue dave laughing....). This could have had something to do with Dave's comments on the muddling of some of the instruments on one particular track... Isolation testing soon I think!
Yep... another fine evening.. I'm still 'oozing' after that Sara Mclachlan track..
I'm still going to have to do some serious speaker auditioning to find that 'right' match for the system... The S6e's were very good... Speaker testing soon..
I also have a feeling that the floor may have affected the sound somewhat if the details from the isolation thread are anything to go by.. Wooden floor=wooden sound (cue dave laughing....). This could have had something to do with Dave's comments on the muddling of some of the instruments on one particular track... Isolation testing soon I think!
03 December 2004, 12:01 PM
#43
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Originally Posted by Alan C
Chris.. Send the bill for the flooring & electricity to dave. He wanted to listen to it..
Originally Posted by Alan C
Yep... another fine evening.. I'm still 'oozing' after that Sara Mclachlan track..
Originally Posted by Alan C
I'm still going to have to do some serious speaker auditioning to find that 'right' match for the system... The S6e's were very good... Speaker testing soon..
Originally Posted by Alan C
I also have a feeling that the floor may have affected the sound somewhat if the details from the isolation thread are anything to go by.. Wooden floor=wooden sound (cue dave laughing....). This could have had something to do with Dave's comments on the muddling of some of the instruments on one particular track... Isolation testing soon I think!
That's what they say mate.... 'Wooden floor, wooden sound...' 'Concrete floor, should be locked up...'
03 December 2004, 12:49 PM
#44
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"Wooden floor, wooden speakers 
"
Top night
Was a bit late when I got in (plus I got the cold shoulder 
) but I set my system warming whilst I went shopping this morning and have just listened to the said Sarah MacLachlan track, and the cello was fine. I think Chris needs a refund on the MF gear
I hope one day that my influence may make Al realise that a key element to good hi-fi, is good music taste Did you spot that Will Young CD in his collection Chris
"Top night
Was a bit late when I got in (plus I got the cold shoulder ) but I set my system warming whilst I went shopping this morning and have just listened to the said Sarah MacLachlan track, and the cello was fine. I think Chris needs a refund on the MF gear I hope one day that my influence may make Al realise that a key element to good hi-fi, is good music taste
Did you spot that Will Young CD in his collection Chris
03 December 2004, 01:04 PM
#45
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Originally Posted by corradoboy
I think Chris needs a refund on the MF gear
Originally Posted by corradoboy
I hope one day that my influence may make Al realise that a key element to good hi-fi, is good music taste Did you spot that Will Young CD in his collection Chris
Did you spot that Will Young CD in his collection Chris Even worse, the Notting Hill compilation.....
03 December 2004, 01:29 PM
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Gentlemen. Some poorly aimed cheap shots.
However, as I do not wish to stoop to this level of cheap humour and attention seeking, I will refrain form listing some of Helen's CD's also located in your CD case (ala Will Young) and pretending that they're yours. I'll also not comment on Chris's Kraftwerk CD that was our final disk of the evening.....
Also, I did not hear any complaints when the mighty Bill Withers was singing 'Aint No Sunshine'
from the very same Notting Hill Compilation that is being derided below. In fact, there was much 'oozing' and tapping of feet...
However, as I do not wish to stoop to this level of cheap humour and attention seeking, I will refrain form listing some of Helen's CD's also located in your CD case (ala Will Young) and pretending that they're yours. I'll also not comment on Chris's Kraftwerk CD that was our final disk of the evening.....
Also, I did not hear any complaints when the mighty Bill Withers was singing 'Aint No Sunshine'
from the very same Notting Hill Compilation that is being derided below. In fact, there was much 'oozing' and tapping of feet...
Last edited by Alan C; 03 December 2004 at 03:38 PM.
03 December 2004, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Alan C
Also, I did not hear any complaints when the mighty Bill Withers was singing 'Aint No Sunshine' from the very same Notting Hill Compilation that is being derided below. In fact, there was much 'oozing' and tapping of feet...
from the very same Notting Hill Compilation that is being derided below. In fact, there was much 'oozing' and tapping of feet...
03 December 2004, 03:36 PM
#48
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Chris, apart from; How Can You Mend A Broken Heart? by Al Green & She by Elvis costello, then I couldn't agree more
Thing is I, and I'm sure everyone else here, have plenty more CD's in their collections that were bought on the back of one or two songs then quickly resigned to CD heaven due to the fact that everything else was dire.
KD's Langs' 'Hymns from the 49th parallel' is one of the excpetions... what you waiting for?
Thing is I, and I'm sure everyone else here, have plenty more CD's in their collections that were bought on the back of one or two songs then quickly resigned to CD heaven due to the fact that everything else was dire.
KD's Langs' 'Hymns from the 49th parallel' is one of the excpetions... what you waiting for?
Last edited by Alan C; 03 December 2004 at 03:40 PM.
03 December 2004, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Alan C
KD's Langs' 'Hymns from the 49th parallel' is one of the excpetions... what you waiting for?
12 December 2004, 06:48 PM
#53
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Originally Posted by Alan C
Dazza, Sticky. Where's the WYIOC LFS server gone?
12 December 2004, 10:51 PM
#54
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Dunno Al. Give me a bell anytime you fancy a blatt and we'll arrange to go on another server there and then
15 December 2004, 01:05 PM
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Hah mate. Been a bit...
...wait for it...
BUSY at work!!!!
Plus a funeral yesterday...
...and court in about...checks clock...53 minutes...GULP!!!
I'll let you know how I get on, assuming they let me out or give me bail.
s..t...i...c......k......y...............
...wait for it...
BUSY at work!!!!
Plus a funeral yesterday...
...and court in about...checks clock...53 minutes...GULP!!!
I'll let you know how I get on, assuming they let me out or give me bail.
s..t...i...c......k......y...............
