Senior_AP

Other countries seem to cope with a lesser population so to me, that seems it's a problem with the UK??

My feelings of continental Europe is that quite simply it's a far more cultured place but that is, as you says a different thread. England to me is losing it's Englishness, becoming an angry, un-cultured place. VERY expensive to.

You are looking at "anti-social" as a monetary thing, I refer to it as standards and attitudes due to what I perceive to be a ever increasing population/density coupled with the type of person(s) that seem to be growing hugely (scum basically, sorry). It's something that I see more and more of.

It's evident we don't agree.

I just appreciate a nice environement, friendly people, good food, cultured lifestyle and a certain level of respect. When I go to Nurburg, I see the German villages and towns, beautifully maintained, clean. I come back to England and it is shocking.

OllyK

Are you referring to a pure numbers issue here or people per square mile? Scotland is relatively un-populated and for the UK England is by far the most populated per suare mile (See the ONS website I cited before for the breakdown). If your argument is to hold water then Scotland should see little of none of the effects you mention, Wales a little more and England should be out of control, can you provide anything to support this or is this just guess work and perception again?

At least you are citing your POV and not generalising for the rest of the country here. What do you mean by cultured? In terms of diversity, the UK is pretty broad, or is that a shielded racist remark? What is VERY expensive, everything? Petrol? Housing? Taxes? I am sure for each you could find a country that is cheaper and maybe some that are more expensive (Scandanavian countries are a good place to look as well as Austria and Switzerland), however I think it unlikely (but feel free to provide the evidence to make your case) that the UK is the most expensive place in Europe for "everything". Also you need to consider what you "get back" in terms of things like the NHS etc that is not available in all other countries.

No I look at it from a socio-economic perspective, sure money is a factor but the picture is broader than that.

Can you show a correlation between intelligence / salary or some other such demographic and the number of syblings a person has? Once you can show the correlation I'd like to see you show that is it causal. If people want to have 10 kids, pay for their up keep, teach them manners etc is that a problem? It strikes me you have an issue with the "social under classes" having more than 2 children, in which case you are just being eliteist and your time may be better spent seeing what you can do to better educate the under classes and get them to become and valuable member of society rather than trying to prevent them being bourne in the first place.

I don't agree with your approach of making "statements of fact" without backing them up. I am happy to say we need to look at the causes of the "chav element of this nation" as it were, and see what can be done to improve eduction, moral values etc if they are shown to be lacking compared to the norms of the rest of society. Knee jerk jumping to the causes of observed events is not the way to tackle things.

Wouldn't we all? But is limiting the number of kids that somebody can have going to do that?? IMO the answer is no, it think it will create more problems and will do little to improve the general moral values of society as a whole.

And I can point you at plenty of picture post card villages in England as well. How long did you spend in those villages on the way through Germany a few fleeting seconds or have you spent a few weeks in each to see how they are at different time?? It is easy to see the greener grass when you only see it for a brief time.

Senior_AP

People in England move abroad, not the other way round.

The scum element is massive (highest rate of teen pregnancies in Europe - that IS a fact).

There are nice areas in England but they are dwindling due to the influx of "retail park", "drive-thru" type Americanisms.

My uncle lives in France, much of my family is French/German descent so yes, I have spent extended time in these places. The attitudes of the people is different. Friendliness as a way of life. Of course, not "everyone" in cintinental Europe is a nice, friendly helpful person but the trend, from what I've seen is a far happier country.

Do you have crime rate figures for Europe OllyK???

Last point, please don't assume when I say scum I mean "intelligence / salary" - you said that....not me.

davegtt

How about this for an idea, u know at school... when your say 12 you have a TB jab etc. well my sister (shes 21) has had a chip or something fitted into her arm which stops her having kids for 5 years.... how about when girls are in their first or second year at school they have to have this chip thingy fitted, its mandatory, its to protect them against young pregnacys.. that way they wont be able to intentionally breed until they are 17 years old... sound a good plan? cuts out alot of the 14/15yr olds who are getting preggers at the mo. and by the time they are 17 they would have probably had to have gone out and got a job or something and at least learnt about sex?????

Senior_AP

Well, it is possible. You're giving me input instead of just knocking me which is a start!!

davegtt

well its a solution to younger pregnancys, obviously your gonna get some problems with some ******* trying it on something stupid about human right to breed at 16...lol

Senior_AP

Certainly is!!

Mandatory chipping for all girls. Problem solved. Probably be uproar but people are like that - quick to moan, not so quick to offer alternatives.

OllyK

Excuse me?? Are you trying to suggest that not one person has emigrated from their own country to England this year?? Please show me the evidence to support that claim, I can't wait!!

Be nice if you cited your source, but I'll let that one pass.

That's just your opinion again, unless you have something to back that claim up?

How much time have you spent in villages in the UK?

Errr what has that to do with having more than 2 kids or are you suggesting some other causal link? Your making the claims here, it is up to you to support those claims. Try this and put together what ever you feel supports whatever new argument you are trying to make.

Nice selective editing!! the bit immediately after that was "or some other such demographic". In otherwords please define the qualities that defines somebody as "scum" or are you to be judge and jury on that??

Senior_AP

Put it this way, I doubt very much that in FRANCE they have a TV show called "A house in England" lol.

Retail parks/drive thru's. I can only assume you have lost your vision?!??!

Crime rates - bears a fair reflection on standards/attitudes wouldn't you agree????

I guess it is case of standards. Some have higher than others. If you're happy to live in the ****, don't complain when you begin to smell it....which will happen. I guess some of us see it before others have worked out a mathematical equation to prove opinions corrrect.

I am proud to be English, however I am not proud of England. Not any more. Pockets are still lovly but unless you have big money for housing, you're somewhat stuck.

People leaving England want a better quality of life - people coming in want a house, car and some cash.......

If you cannot/will not see the blatant demise of this country then there is no point discussing this further I will therefore bow out allowing you the last word.

OllyK

And we don't have "A house in Germany" does that mean England is better than Germany?? Give me a break. Besides what has this to do with having kids?

No I am just challenging the unsupported generalist cr@p you are spouting. Are you trying to claim that people having more than 2 children is responsible for the decline in pleasant rural surroundings and the increase in retail parks? Are you seriously suggesting if people were limited to 2 children these problems would not have occurred?? Or are you back to having a general bitch about England?

Do you have evidence to support this or is this just your opinion again? Are we talking general crime rates or a particular crime? Make your choice and present your figures comparing crime rates in England to Scotland, for example, and show how much worse they are in the England due to England having a more dense population if you can tie in a correlation between population density and crime figures across all of Europe I'd almost be impressed.

OK, now we are getting somewhere, so it actually has sweet FA to do with the number of children you have?

Higher or different? Who is correct? Who sets the level that is acceptable. When do standards become so high that they become "intollerant bigotry"?

The only one complaining is you, you even seem to be complaining that you can't leave the country, gee if it is depressing you that much it isn't a big deal to sell up and move on.

The country "England" and being English kind of go hand in hand or are you proposing people are bourn here and there should immediately move to a better country so they can claim to be "English" but not have to live there?

I could ask you to back that up, but you seem to prefer to roll on with spouting more cr@p rather than actually back up any of your claims. Define "better quality of life", by people coming in are you referring to Assylum seekers, legal immigrants or illegal immigrants? Other than the case of ilegals and cash I don't think that statement floats either but I am happy for you to cite the survey / study that shows that and I'll happily agree with you.

The demise is in your opinion - are you trying to suggest that people having more than 2 children is the cause of this demise. Can you show that the countries that you claim are better are better because they have an average birth rate of less than 2 per female (in fact can you show that the UK birth rate is more than 2 per female on average). Or does this have nothing to do with birth rates and over population but is to do with how you percieve the standards and morals have changed in this country??

Giler

I'm a foster carer and see elements of both the above, and others. Often kids go into care, 3 or 4 years later mum's still poppin 'em out, somethin not right there!

Also had a brother and sister as refugees. 6 years later neither has kids, one is working on a maths phd the other about to complete an engineering degree, I think they may be rather useful members of society.