paulr

WRONG
WRONG
WRONG.

Income tax has come down 1p for standard rate payers and a bit more for the lowest paid as they have adjusted allowances.NI has gone up as the fairest way to fund the NHS.Indirect taxes,some have gone up also,more like a bit here and there,not "massively" as you say.

If you compare taxes in general we arent that much different from France,Germany etc,....higher than the U.S but lower than say,Sweden.

If you have any facts to show otherwise please post.

paulr

Sorry mate,dont agree.When i saw how well we have done compared to some other large countries it made me proud to be British.
Thats relevant to me,if no-one else.

Gordo

Paul, I said TOTAL tax - you and I have discussed this before. Stating our tax is in line with many European countries (which are also raving socialist) is no excuse (and suggestive of a Daily Mail reader ) Most media pounces on individual tax comparisons which are meaningless.

Since Bliar came to rule the known world:

- Council tax bills have on average increased by 70%
- Total tax revenue at the end of 96/97 was 37.6% of the total economy. It is now more than 42% (Institute of fiscal studies). This is the only true measure of a government's take. Pretty compelling, eh?

I think these two facts alone justify my MASSIVE tax increase claim.

Bliar committed not to raise Income Tax - he then increased NI (notably he's making the same promise again currently but refuses not to increase NI again - why not be honest? It's sod all to do with the NHS, that's just a smokescreen for raising more tax)
Reductions in income tax have been more than negated by local taxes and the increase in NI. Nice.

Anyone seeing any obvious improvements such as reduced crime, reduced immigration, improved NHS waiting times, or better education? Nope - all proved to be getting worse in recent weeks (once the Labour spin has been removed from misleading press statements). So what are they spending the taxes on? Fek knows.

Gordo

unclebuck

Leslie

Fair enough Paul, and I agree with what you say about being proud of our athletes. Just did not see how it affects how one feels about living here though.

Les

Daz34

IMHO New Labour's leadership are a bunch of deceitful lying control freaks who have abused the trust of the masses who voted for them. The rest of the party had better have the courage to put their house in order or face the consequences.

Darren

SiPie

Sounds like the definition of a ............................... politician

16vmarc

I thought britain was a good place to live because we're the only country that makes good beer IMO

Daz34

Australia make much better lager, and not that XXXX and Fosters crap either.

SiPie

He's probably got a beard, is a member of CAMRA and drinks that 'real ale' stuff

16vmarc

I used to drink bitter, recently started drinking stella though

Ga22ar

Yeah, I think the UK is so great I moved to AUS, should of done it years ago... Why ??

Cheaper food
Cheaper petrol
Cheaper cars
Cheaper bikes
Cheaper bigger property
Medical system that makes the NHS look as backwards as it really is
So much choice you dont know what to do
More sport than you can shake a stick at
Fourth in the Olympic Gold medal table

The only penalty for all this is being labelled a POM

Gazzar

Proud of being British, not proud of what Britain is becomming

Senior_AP

Here here.

Brendan Hughes

...traditionally preceded by the adjective "whingeing", I believe...

SJ_Skyline

Ga22ar,

You forgot:
More species of poisonous spiders and snakes than you can shake a stick at
1 on 2 adults suffering from some form of skin cancer at some time during their lives

EvilKyote

god i bloody hope not!!!! Send him somewhere else, like iraq

Gordo

Come on Paul, where are you?

Yet more coverage of the Blair/Brown lies over the economy in this morning's Times (discussing the disproportionate amounts of tax being paid in respect of local taxes and stamp duty under the current government).

Oh, and there are new plans to tax owner-managed businesses to the hilt - mmmm, that'll encourage people to take the risk of setting up on their own, then. Same old Labour.

Gordo

paulr

My issue was not with the fact that Labour are increasing taxation,that is what they were elected to do anyway.
It was with the word "massive".
A massive increase in taxation to me is say 15%.The overall tax take has not gone up 15% (as far as i know).

Gordo

How much has your council tax gone up by? More than 15%?

OllyK

No idea how much since Labia got in, but went up 17% this year, and they are merrily reducing services as well, refuse collection fortnightly instead of weekly. Have to empty the bins and put the bags at the end of the drive now rather than them collecting them from the bins. I could go on...

TelBoy

A horse, wearing blinkers yesterday...




Still on the lookout for a rose-tinted glasses pic...

paulr

4.4% increase in total tax is not massive.If you think otherwise then we'll have to agree to differ.
As i said i think it would be fair to say "most" voters expected a slight increase in tax to pay for the extra spending that was promised.4.4% seems reasonable to me.

unclebuck

Gotta pay for those 700,000 new public sector posts somehow. Shame so few of them are front line services jobs but mostly uneccessary bureaucratic type posts, or 'Jobs for votes' as some have called them. All these people will *have* to vote Labout as they know their jobs will be axed under a less profligate administration.

UB

ariel

So it seems that you can fool some of the people all of the time.
I do love Britain but the politicians do stink don't they. Lies, lies and more lies all the time feathering their own nests.

the moose

Yes, but it's not a 4.4% rise, is it?

It's moved 4.4 POINTS, but an increase from 37.6% to 42.0% is, in reality, an 11.7% increase in total taxation.

Not that it's not needed, IMHO; I'd rather pay more in tax and not have to pay a second time privately because the publicly-available standard is so low. Think about it - if the NHS was great we'd not have seen the rise of BUPA and the like, now would we? And if the amount paid to private healthcare went instead to the NHS, we'd ALL benefit.

paulr

you're right.

paulr

Not working in the public sector or having ever used it,i cant really comment.If the public services have improved though TB is doing a lousy job of communicating it.

Gordo

The rise is more than 11.7% in terms of tax revenue - the figures I quoted are as a percentage of GDP - as this has risen markedly over the last few years (as it does over time, before anyone praises Labour for that too!), the actual tax revenue has increased by more than 11.7. And, on top of this, Brown is borrowing on top of this, meaning the actual spend is even higher in percentage terms.

Enthusiastic public sector spending is NEVER good in the long term - particularly when there are no discernable benefits from it!

Gordo

the moose

Don't disagree on your first point - the spending has increased by more than the increase in tax take, whatever the exact number is.

I'd question whether there are no discernible benefits though. I know for a fact ('cos my next door neighbour is a governor of it) that my local primary school has seen massively increased funding in the last three years, which has transformed it from being special measures to being really pretty good. Similarly, the local hospital has had a massive revamp of the maternity wards, something which had been needed for over a decade.

Real money, spent on real things, can have real results. Mind you, it all has to be paid for somehow, and the other side of the equation is whether by increasing the quality of the health and education services you improve the overall health and education of the population as a whole, raising GDP as a result. That's the one I'm not so sure about - I'd love to see it happen, but it's a mighty big gamble.

Freak

Oh joy
(Says Freak currently in the process of setting up his own business )

F*ck this- im seriously contemplating moving abroad now.