oilman

iTrader: (9)

Yep, sorry - I sell it and it's a fast mover!

Apart from not being an ester, there are various issues with oils this thick, fuel consumption and oil drag causing a lack of power delivery. You see it's really too thick and, even hot-running engines do not need SAE 60 oil these days. (by ‘hot’ I mean 120-130C). SAE 60 is heavier than most SAE 90 gear oils. If an oil is too thick, it de-aerates slowly, leading to cavitation in the oil pump, or the bearings being fed slugs of air along with the oil.

I would also have said that sae 50 or even 40 is the recommended so I wouldn't stray past 10w-50 or 15w-50 if it was my car..............

But it isn't so you should use what you're comfortable with anyway, how can I not recommend it, I sell it

Just my opinion but based on some facts.

Cheers
Simon

beemer02

how about 4 star and a zippo?

CataIunya

Can someone answer the above for me ?

CataIunya

4 star and zippo = plenty of black smoke......

Bob Rawle

Interesting read but it won't change my opinion of what works and what doesn't in the Subaru engine, lots about Silkolene, have they done any comparative benchmarking to other grades, I rate the castrol RS 10-60 or Motul M300V well above any of the Silkolene oils and thats based on personal practical experience of nearly 200,000 miles coverd in my cars over time.

Its obvious that the thinner the oil the lesser resistance and losses that are seen, however these thin oils also need to hold up against high forces, especially on modified engines, was any testing done using the Subaru TURBO engine at all? A normally aspirated light weight motor cycle engine is a different fish.

BTW Subaru themselves state that you SHOULD NOT use a 5-30 grade (which they recommend for normal driving) if "heavy use" is planned, they state that a heavier grade should be used.

As I said interesting read,

bob

micared

And becoming more interesting with every post. Reason I asked about RS10/60 is that it's my oil of choice, based on the advice given on here. I'll always be interested in any information I can find relating to oil, but in this instance I'll stick with Bobs opinion, based on his knowledge of the Subaru engine. Not meant to be a criticism of your input, Oilman, and keep posting this stuff.....don't often get this much info about oil.

*Sonic*

I have a quick question too, but its not about my impreza

I have a 10 year old Mk3 1.6 Golf (as a runaround) wiith 75k on the clock, and it does burn a bit of oil, resulting in me having to top it up now & again

Now, I did a service myself, and decided to try some high mileage engine oil (Castrol I believe) specifically designed for engines that have done over 70k (or thereabouts) miles

I have noticed that I havent had to top the oil up as of yet, and the dipstick is still reporting as full, and the engine does seem to run slightly better (despite having an oily plug on number 3 piston )

What is it about that oil, that is differrent to normal engine oil, that means I havent had to top the oil up

Steve

sooby

I /suspect/ this high mileage oil is not synthetic or semi synthetic. I put it in my Dad's old car - which can't use synthetic because of its age.

Bob Rawle

High mileage oil is normally designed to "fill the gaps" however its not really going to be suited to a turbo engine inho. I have castrol RS10-60 in the STi9 at the moment (last two changes) and I am going between changes without the level moving at all. For sure you don't have aturbo and so it "should" be ok but if you were planning on giving it "hard use"then I would think again.

Bob

oilman

iTrader: (9)

Ok,

Multigrades oils work like this. Polymers are added to a light base oil (0w,5w,10w,15w etc) which prevent the oil from thinning as much as it warms up. At cold temps, the polymers are "coiled up" and allow the oil to flow as the low numbers indicate. As the engine and consequently the oil warms up, the polymers unwind into chains that prevent the oil from thinning. The result is that at 100degC the oil has only thinned to the higher viscosity number (sae 30, 40, 50, 60 etc)

Are you serious about cheapest oil?

Cheers
Simon

*Sonic*

Cheers Bob

As for hard use, its a 1.6 Golf with approx 70 BHP

its so slow I cant be bothered to actually even try and drive it hard, its only really used around town, and the occasional rush hour motorway drive (read stop start max 40-50mph trips)

oilman

iTrader: (9)

Erm, whilst I agree with many of the comments here, there are a couple of things that I think should be clarified without meaning to upset anyone.

Firstly I believe that the actual recommendation for a Scoob was 10w-50.

In my opinion, 10w-40, 10w-50, 15w-50 are probably the best grades to use, I cannot see anywhere in any of the recommendation data that I have that 60 is a recommended grade for your cars but I'm more than happy to be proved wrong!

I believe that this is personal choice and I've no problem with that at all, it's your car at the end of the day.

Secondly, I'm sorry to say this but, Castrol RS 10w-60 is not a better oil than Silkolene PRO S 10w-50 and I have the tests to prove it.

Finally, the tests that were done on the different oils in the bike were not done to illustrate that you should put 0w-20 in your Scooby, the manufacturers guidelines should be followed at all times.

It was done to dispell the myth that thicker oils give more power, they simply do not.

The point here is that many car manufacturers today, Porsche, BMW, Ford, VW/Audi to name but a few only recommend 0w and 5w oils for their new engines, indeed Porsche have stopped "approving" any 10w or 15w oils for their cars.

The market is changing and thinner oils are the future. I wouldn't mind betting that it won't be long before all Manufacturers recommend 5w and 0w oils.

Cheers
Simon

oilman

iTrader: (9)

What grade is this oil? 15w-40 Mineral oil?

Cheers
Simon

stockcar

having read thro' the thread i don't think anyone has suggested that a 10w60 or 15w50 will offer more power...............simply more protection than the current trend for "light" oils!!

certainly on most of our (and customers) rally and track cars i would not be selling them any 0 or 5 weight oils.................having done our own "tests" in the real world involving 'anti-lag' etc. and the real problems of bore-washing then one of the most suitable oils was Millers CFS 10w60!!
stock and sell various Millers, MOTUL and Silkolene products but have to say that in very general terms the Silkolene doesn't appear as good value or have some of the benefits (perceived or not) that the other two offer!!

and judging by the amount of MOTUL 15w50 300V competition we sell - then most of our customers are having no problems either!!

alyn - asperformance.com

*Sonic*

Simon

It is Castrol GTX High Mileage Oil
15W-40

It states (possible sales blurb )

Contains seal conditioners to preserve the elasticity of engine seals, helping control oil leaks in the engine

Also states 'Meets or exceeds the following specifications, SAE 15W-40 API SL ACEA A2/B2

Doesnt say wether its Mineral or not tho

It is a New Oil tho, and it does seem to have made a big difference in my Golf, in the fact that im not having to top the oil every few days/week

BTW I dont use this oil in my Impreza, im asking from the point of view of my Golf and its oil burning problems (due to age & wear) and that there is quite a bit of knowledge within this thread

Steve

krazy

Didn't bmw revise their oil recommendation on their m series engines from synthetic castrol 5w30 to 10w60 thou?

oilman

iTrader: (9)

I must confess I've heard about it but don't stock it. It is a mineral I believe as to be honest, most high mileage or older car owners tend use mineral oils or basic semi-synthetics because they tend not to clean the engine quite so well and therefore leave some of the deposits in place which is sometimes better than cleaning them away and creating larger tolerances.

I would look at regular changes though as it probably won't be as thermally stable.

Interesting info though................this is a great thread! Sticky?

Cheers
Simon

oilman

iTrader: (9)

No, it's only applicable to certain engines/models S54 I believe is the one although I can check this.

The general recommendation for most BMW's manufactured in the last 10 years is "all year round" 5w-40 Fully synthetic.

Cheers
Simon

oilman

iTrader: (9)

Krazy,

Castrol Formula RS 10w-60 is an ACEA A3/B3 API SL/CF now, I'm reading it of my tech sheet and I think you'll find it's been so for a while now.

Cheers
Simon

stockcar

latest M5 engines defo. use Castrol RS10w60 as quite a few of our customers own these also..............................get it done at BMW garage and its rebadged as a BMW own grade type!!

alyn - asperformance.com

hoskib

iTrader: (1)

i'm a bit slow on the uptake so can i have some yes/ answers i possible please..

1- is Castrol RS 10w/60 a recommended oil by 'people in the know'?

2- is the above oil ok for 'all situation' driving?

3- i don't do many miles (6-8k a year with lots of small 3-6 mile runs) is this a good oil/viscosity to use in this situation?

any answers would be VERY much appreciated as i've just gone and bought 5 litres of RS for my next service to replace the Magnatek my dealer now uses.

getting a bit panicky about comments about not needing oil this thick?

it's all a bit confusing with a respected guy like bob rawle giving it the thumbs up, but it seems oilman (clued up by all acounts) isn't entirely convinced the scooby engine needs an oil this thick.

HELP

sooby

That's the leading question isn't it? "People in the know"! If life were so simple ;-)

I have read very many posts on here with reference to oil. I have also communicated with Subaru, Motul, Redline, Shell and several others.

The problem with listening to many people is you get varying opinions - even from the same source.

For the people that feel comfortable with their choice, they are happy that they have listened to "people in the know" or are "in the know".

I am replacing my Shell Semi 10W40 with RedLine. I have asked a regular on ScoobyNet to assist me in locating a lab near me to analyse my oil. I will analyse the oil that comes out from each service for the next two services and make a decision based on that data as to which oil is good enough for my driving. This is because I'm sad like that! But at least I'll feel that "I'm in the know" enough to feel comfortable :-)

Edited to add that because I'm still in warranty, I will be sure to choose an oil than conforms to the API standard laid out in the handbook.

hoskib

iTrader: (1)

very true mate, and very confusing for anyone trying to draw a conclusion from it all.

my subaru garage used to use shell helix that seemed to get the thumbs up, but then changed to magnatec, which seems to get the thumbs down (at least for use in modified/higher boosting scoobs), hence me shopping around for a decent replacement.

at a bit of a crossroads now, general concensus(?) seems that the castrol RS will be ok for me, but the last thing i want to do is **** my car up.

as i said, there have been at least 2 clued up people contributing to this thread, if either of them could give it an ok for use in my car under the driving conditions i've described that would be much appreciated.

BigGuy

I have an STi7 my02 modified and driven fairly hard through Germany and Switzerland for 76,000 kms. I use only Castrol RS 10w 60 as recommended by my dealer who races, and my tuner who races also in endurences races in germany at Hockenheim etc... If you like your car and drive it hard occasionally, I recommend Castrol RS or Motul 300? If you drive only in winter and do less then 15 kms a trip then I guess any oil will do.

Danny Boy

iTrader: (2)

I've had the RS 10-60 in my car now for the last two services and aprox 12,000 miles and has given me no cause for concern at all. Infact the engine runs very smoothly and responsivley with this oil in it. Now whilst we are on the subject of oils how about we throw in the gerbox oil debate as well! Castrol Syntrax or Redline shockproof??????


Dan.

Jolly Green Monster

iTrader: (4)

I was concerned when I was seeing posts from you and you mentioned this 'article'.

As suspected and as Andy.F said.. absolutly no consideration has been given to the big end bearings which seem to be a weak point in the Subaru engine..

The article although full of interesting info and great detail and is talking about lubricating a Subaru.. so how many miles did he run many Subaru engines for with the many different oil types in to come up with the answer he has??
He has purely taken oil knowledge and appiled it to the recommendation Subaru gave for a oil viscosity.

Sorry but I think you will find over the years millions and millions of miles have been covered with different oils in a Subaru and discussed on here and other forums and the few people that remain here for a number of years know what aid big end failure and what helps to provent it.

Yes engines still fail on any oil but I believe you will find that more fail on a thinner oil ie. 10W40 or 5W40.. you are giving the impression that we should be running thinner than 15W50 or 10W60 which is risky going on previous experiences.

Bob Rawle has posted modestly as always, he has years of tuning experiance.

I run 15W50 Motul 300V in my high mileage (150,000mile) modified Impreza Turbo engine and will not be persuaded to change by someone coming on here trying to make some more revenue by quoting someone elses non-subaru experianced article.

Bob Rawle

Oilman I believe you have posted this info in the past, as for what Subaru recommend suggest you read the manuals ? They are pretty clear on that.

Those of us (myself, AndyF et al) that have posted neither sell nor have any affiliation with any oil manufacturer, we merely quote from basic experience, I do have an extensive database of Subaru engine failures, conditions and circumstances at the time, we are all willing to learn and gain from new input, thats why we are called "engineers" but it seems to me that you quote from others xperience that is not related to the specific vehicle here and that worries me.

NO ONE that I can recall has EVER said that thicker oils give more power, we have always been talking safety here, so lets put that on the burner for a start, misinformation and confusion reigns !!

If you like, and it will take me some time so I need to be "asked", I will scan the pages from the Subaru manuals relating to this and post, at least then there will be no doubt as to what is recommended or not ?

Whilst this sort of info is always of interest I still fail to see what the original objective was ... maybe if that was clarified we could contribute in a more concilleratory fashion ?

A final comment, Andy's point relating to engine design is more than significant of course.

cheers

bob

BigGuy

This is from a previous post of mine. I received this technical bulletin a couple of years ago. As I can't seem to be able to paste it, this is a direct quote:

SUBARU Technicnical Service Bulletin No 1-1B-015

Please Circulate To : Service Manager/Workshop Personnel

From: John Baker, Subaru (UK) TechnicalService Department

Subject: Mobil1: 0W-40 Engine Oil

Applicable Model/s: All Subaru Turbo Models

Subaru UK technical department have recently been receiving a large number of queries from both the Subaru Dealer Network and Subaru Turbo Owners, relating to the use of Mobil 1 0W-40 engine oil and the companies official policy regarding it’s use in our 2.0 Turbo engine.

The only engine oil specifications we would recommend for use in the 2.0 turbo engine are oil grade API classification SG, SJ, SH, SAE viscosity 10w-30, 10w-40. Using a SAE 5w-30w or lower viscosity for the turbo models is not recommended, as stated on page 10-14, 10-15 of the Impreza Owners handbook A1790GE page 10-14, 10-15.

MY99-5DR

Several points:

1. Shear stability is key. A mediocre 10-50, 15-50 or 10-60 that degrades in 2000 miles may not offer sufficient protection thereafter. A more stable, better quality (poly-ol or di-ester) 5-40 or 10-40 will offer more protection in the long run.

2. Oils of high viscosity, i.e. 10-60 are not great news, particularly when cold. You may be reassured by high oil pressure, but what you're measuring is resistance in the pumping circuit, not flow. Very simplistically, as resistance increases, flow reduces and the discharge pressure rises.

3. The power gains detailed in John's article primarily arise from reduced "churning". The thicker the oil, the greater the energy required to move it. This energy is disipated as heat, thus a bearing running on a thicker than required oil will run hotter than one running on a lubricant of optimum viscosity due to the amount of extra energy imparted to the thicker oil.

I run my 99 Turbo on a shear stable poly-ol 5W 40 which I consider to be ideally suited to my generally light driving style and the UK climate. If I lived in Cyprus or drove the car hard on a regular basis I would move to a 10W 50, or possibly a 15W 50.

Regarding the concern over delicate big end bearings, a thicker oil will take longer to reach them at the all important initial engine cranking phase before full oil pressure has been reached, thus increasing the risk of contact and subsequent damage.

Taken in context, Oilman's postings are informative and valuable. At the end of the day, most people have a preferred lubricant, but it might be worth asking if the choice has been based on sound technical theory, operating experience, or marketing hype, etc.

CataIunya

Nooooo I meant the cheapest place to get the decent oils...Silkolene and Motul et al.