wrxtankie

There u go peeps i did some editing now ive chilled out

maybe they should bring in some orca whales so they could do the culling that way everypeep is happy

drumsterphil

iTrader: (1)

No worries!

Orca's - now there's an idea!

FrenchBoy

I take it there aren't enough polar bears to munch through 300,000 seals?

Or did we shoot them too?

wrxtankie

I aint just a good looker m8 LOL

unclebuck

I have seen enough to know that they are out of step with the modern world. Like the sods in S.E. Asia who are hunting tigers to extinction and those b*****d loggers who are clearing the rain forests of the world...

Better stop before I start to sound like Sting. lol

UB

ajm

The tiger problem is quite different. They are running a purely money driven unsustainable industry under the guise of chinese medicine. They kill the tiger for its ***** then sell it as an aphrodisiac for money and money alone. They are not considering that they will ultimately kill all the tigers, and they dont care either. Ok there is a demand for it, but that demand is a nice to have, unlike food which is a must have. They are not thinking ahead.... or they are not being MADE to think ahead.

The seal culling has a valid purpose, it is an attempt to restore a balance with the fish stocks whilst the carcusses/pelts can be put to use and not wasted. Unlike the tigers and the trees they have considered the long term. The cull will be cut back again and the seal population will stabilise.

Its a human reaction to be repulsed at scenes of defenseless animals being killed but killing a few thousand seals now is simply smoothing off nature's curve which would be much harsher in the long term if left to run its course. It has been thought about for the long term good, the same cannot be said for the tiger hunters and the lumberjacks.

Kneejerk responses of well meaning but ignorant people can be a dangerous thing. Just ask the animal rights activists that released hundreds of mink into the british countryside how that ended up...

andypugh2000

Well I'm off to hug a tree, night all

Scoobydick

For detailed insight to the Canadian psyche, please see South Park the Movie.

drumsterphil

iTrader: (1)

The cull is being done so that fisherman can catch their quota's of fish - but after the seals have been culled over-fishing will continue as normal and thus fish stocks will reduce again. A cull is a short-term answer to a long-term problem; we have to allow the oceans to replenish and if that means we go without cod for a while then so be it.

imlach

On the ITN news tonight, they showed some clubbings going on. The final image was of a seal lying in its pool of blood, gasping for breath, and obviously still quite alive. Quite distressing. At least if you are going to club them, club them properly to death so that there is no undue suffering

wrxtankie

I know the innuit tribes in the northern territories use the seals for everything. Pelts for their clothing and foot wear and obviously the meat for food. I guess these peeps have nothing to do with it though.

ajm

I don't know all the details but one would hope it is being done in conjunction with some or all of the methods I listed in my earlier post with regard to fish replenishment in order to minimise the magnitude and frequency of these culls. Simply expecting people not to eat cod isn't really a long term fix either, what else will get eaten in its place?

The only answer to getting the balance right is:-

1) Reducing the number of other predators (i.e. seals)
2) Reducing the number of humans (sadly not an option open to us at this time!)
3) Increasing the yield of fish per unit area

Since we have decided in our wisdom to let human population grow unchecked, we are only left with options 1) and 3). Hopefully 3) is being done in Canada to minimise 1), or maybe not.... the point I am trying to make is that mass hysteria is unjustified. If they would just stop and think about it, or better still make some realistic suggestions for alternatives then perhaps we further smoothen out the boom/bust effect of our predation on natural resources.

drumsterphil

iTrader: (1)

I agree that mass hysteria is not the answer, but in a 'civilised' world it's not pleasant being confronted by the images seen on the news tonight, so that reaction can be expected.

I am not an expert either on this area but whenever fishing rights appear on the news the fisherman are always unwilling to reduce quota's. I can appreciate that they have livelyhoods but what happens when all the fish are gone?

I can only hope that said governments have procedures in place for sustaining fish stocks, but feel that the necessary steps will be too unpalatable for many of the parties concerned.

On that note, I'll bid you goodnight.

SiDHEaD

It really wouldn't be so bad if they were being shot, at least the poor little buggers wouldn't be in excrutiating pain but:

What kind of sick ******* can cut poor little creatures open and bleed them dry when they are screaming. They'll get too used to playing god and move on to killing kids next.

unclebuck

SiDHEaD

Thanks mate.. At least someone understands what I mean't.

UB

drumsterphil

iTrader: (1)

UB - anybody who saw the news last night will understand what you meant.

I'm sure I read that all seals culled have to be shot - this most definitely isn't the case but I doubt action will be taken against those sealers using clubs (mind you, if they had guns they might shoot each other by accident - there's a thought)

Diablo

This sort of thing really ***** me off big time

Whats all this crap about not understanding their traditions?

The only tradition I see is cruelty and unnecessary suffering.

Mankind playing God again. With what right?

I don't agree with it, but I can see the reasons for allowing the cull. It should, without question, be done as humanely as possible, with a bullet to the head.

But that costs more, doesn't it.

How anyone posting on this thread can not be disgusted at the manner in which many of the seals are mutilated whilst still very much alive is simply uncomprehansable.

Canadians? May they all rot in hell...........

D

King RA

I hope their tourism industry goes down the pan because of this, bunch of sick f3ck$. I know I won't be going there soon after seeing the news last night.

I'm not against this sort of thing if it needs to be done for a better future for all parties, but the way they kill the seals is bang out of order.

MooseRacer

Agreed. Whether a cull is needed is perhaps open for debate. This is not culling, it's just plain barbaric.

davyboy

Wonder if I can get my lady a nice fur coat a bit cheaper now?

Chill guys, I don't think any of us have the full details (although I am aware this is SN and that doesn't matter), and by the very fact greenpeace have not commented makes me think they DO have all the facts.

Although we can hardly expect greenpeace to make an announcemenr condoning it can we?

drumsterphil

iTrader: (1)

Greenpeace haven't made a statement because they are concentrating their efforts on the GM Crop issue and climate change.

Most people agree that culls are necessary but when man is so proud of their technological achievements why resort to a club to kill a seal - this is nothing short of barbaric and the practice should be made illegal post haste.

Nicci

Clubbing a seal is an ancient way of killing them.

Times have moved on, if suffering can be prevented by bullet, then why is that route not taken?
The killers must really enjoy watching the slow death.

Are you all fish eaters (or selective ones)?

ajm

Ok, we seem to have digressed from whether or not the cull should take place and are now debating how they should be killed...

I can't help agreeing that clubbing isn't the most humane way, and common sense would suggest that shooting would be physically easier on both parties. I think that the licences stipulate that shooting is to be used, however I suppose they have their own traditionalists as do any group of people. It seems barbaric to us, but then we have a different upbringing entirely. Maybe the natives want their children to have a first hand appreciation of how they used to live, who knows.... If the Canadian authorities are going to approve licences to cull then they do need to make sure that the cull is done to the terms of the licences.

To those who still go into an irrational rage whenever they get a sniff of something that their upbringing and culture disagrees with I would ask whether they would wish the same fate upon Orca's who clearly enjoy a spot of live seal tennis... or is it only our species that is not allowed to enjoy the kill?

drumsterphil

iTrader: (1)

Orca's play with seals to hone their hunting/killing techniques - it is behavioural instinct for them to do this. It is a necessity for them to do this to survive in the wild.

Humans on the otherhand should not be deriving pleasure from the suffering of a defenseless animal - unless of course the sealers are deliberately using clubs because they enjoy the animals suffering?

Nicci

I don't mind digressing a little, it makes for interesting reading.

We just have to make sure we don't eat up the world, a balance must be developed.

Demand for fish is only going to increase, along with the human population.

ajm

I doubt very much that they do it because they like the animal to suffer. Like I said before, it is much more likely that they are doing it for cultural reasons. It may be hard for us to understand but some cultures believe is is more respectful to the animal to kill it face to face than it is from 200 yds away with a rifle, and if you think about it, it is more natural as it is a direct test of strength between two animals.

There is a distinct difference between taking sick pleasure at suffering and the high derived from a fair kill. We should be repulsed by the former but not be ashamed of the latter, it is inate.

davyboy

Diablo

Most of the hunters are not local inhabitants, or cultures. They are there simply for commercial gain.

No irrational rage ajm, in fact I was quite in control when i posted that. deeply saddned yes, but quite calm.

The same control with which I could, quite easily line up one of those barbaric "hunters" in the sights of a high powered rifle and blow his brains accross the ice flows as he clubbed yet another helpless animal to near death, leaving it screaming in pain and confusion as to what was happening before skinning it alive. Seems fair enough to me.

Most of the hunters are not local inhabitants and are simply there for commercial gain. The indiginous tribes most certainly have respect for a "fair kill" and the challenge of the hunt, but they also have respect for the animals they hunt as they are dependent upon them to survive.

Nothing is wasted and no more are killed than is required.

So your "its their culture" argument doesn't stack up.

Many cultures condone practices which I'm sure even you would find abhorent. Or is it just because its not a human being that is being made to suffer that you are not ashamed to condone the practice?

D

ajm

Ok, firstly "my argument" is based on the same set of facts that your argument is based on, unless you have an undeclared additional insight into what is going on here, if so then please share. I am simply trying to offer a different perspective, or benefit of doubt if you like, and to keep reactions rational. Remember, you are being shown pictures and footage that the media want you to be shocked at. It could be completely out of context yet are you really ready to shoot someone in the head on the basis of second hand and biased information?

For what its worth, it is my view that this ready willingness to resort to violence yourself undermines your message.

Absolutely not. If it turns out to be true that the Canadian government has issued licences to sadistic nutcases hell bent on torturing seals then of course I would be repulsed. I don't condone unecessary suffering of animals, all I am trying to do is explain that people's view of cruelty differs widely.

Diablo

What part of obscene cruelty even requires context. There are no grey areas here.

I didn't say I was prepared to shoot someone in the head on the basis of second hand information. I would, however, be quite prepared to do it if witnessed first hand.

In fact, no I wouldn't. A shot to the head would be too humane. Perhaps to the knees and stomach to disable, and then stand and watch them suffer for a bit, not knowing what was still to come, as they bled to death.

That might make the point between a necesary cull and unecessary suffering.

D