Having a Bad Day....
20 May 2004, 09:48 PM
#302
I bet you wish you could see the reaction when the letter arrives !!
I wonder if it would still be regarded as a legal communication if it were e-mailed TO HR Manager, Legal Manager, IT Manager, Etc and Copied to every one else whose name you can remember who still works for the conpany??
It's not like you are asking for anything you are not entitled to !! It might also create an exponential increase in the number of e-mails flying around that mention you by name !!
I wonder if it would still be regarded as a legal communication if it were e-mailed TO HR Manager, Legal Manager, IT Manager, Etc and Copied to every one else whose name you can remember who still works for the conpany??
It's not like you are asking for anything you are not entitled to !! It might also create an exponential increase in the number of e-mails flying around that mention you by name !!
20 May 2004, 11:35 PM
#303
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Tim,
I did this with my last company, and they charged £10 to do the "audit" which they are allowed to do. If you have any problems with them refer to the Data Protection Act ( http://www.hmso.gov.uk/acts/acts1998/19980029.htm )
What is important about this is that they must disclose everything that is relevant to you, not stuff that you may have been copied on for ref etc., but stuff that relates to you, so any correspondance that has happened internally should be presented to you.
If they fail to disclose anything and then subsequently use it (or it comes to light some other way) then I bleieve that they are deemed to have broken the data protection act and can be fined (unlimited now, I think).
A side benefit is that you can sit back and think of them running around like a bunch of looneys looking for everything that has your name in it!
My company couldn't even present me with a copy of my own employment contract, and that was a big blue chip!! But I did get some interesting stuff about reviews etc.
When you get the data (which I think can take up to 40 days form the request being accepted) you will probably have lots of duplicate information where several people have been consulted on the same matter. They also blank out any other names in the info to protect the "innocent".
Read it carefully, you may find some gems, an ex colleague of mine used the info contained in his file to get reinstated, at the very least he could have got come compensation.
Good luck.
Darren.
I did this with my last company, and they charged £10 to do the "audit" which they are allowed to do. If you have any problems with them refer to the Data Protection Act ( http://www.hmso.gov.uk/acts/acts1998/19980029.htm )
What is important about this is that they must disclose everything that is relevant to you, not stuff that you may have been copied on for ref etc., but stuff that relates to you, so any correspondance that has happened internally should be presented to you.
If they fail to disclose anything and then subsequently use it (or it comes to light some other way) then I bleieve that they are deemed to have broken the data protection act and can be fined (unlimited now, I think).
A side benefit is that you can sit back and think of them running around like a bunch of looneys looking for everything that has your name in it!
My company couldn't even present me with a copy of my own employment contract, and that was a big blue chip!! But I did get some interesting stuff about reviews etc.
When you get the data (which I think can take up to 40 days form the request being accepted) you will probably have lots of duplicate information where several people have been consulted on the same matter. They also blank out any other names in the info to protect the "innocent".
Read it carefully, you may find some gems, an ex colleague of mine used the info contained in his file to get reinstated, at the very least he could have got come compensation.
Good luck.
Darren.
21 May 2004, 08:57 PM
#304
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Been following this for a while also, but couldnt be bothered to find my pw after I cleared my cookies.
All the best for next week, hope you have a decent solicitor etc fired up, if you do need a top class employment lawyer I can get details of a very good one.
When I was having trouble at AXA he gave me a list of things to bear in mind for when it progressed. As such I didnt need it as I got voluntary redundancy and left the stinking cess pit
1 thing thats really handy to know is that during these discussions you can if you choose ask for recesses (have to be reasonable), you can also stop AT ANY POINT to consult an expert if you need to. Drop a "sorry I need to call my employment law expert regarding this, lets take a 5 min recess" into conversation and go make a phone call. By law they have to allow this in any case of misconduct or other serious employment dispute. Most companies try to avoid this type of thing but its your legal right to do it.
Best of luck, hope the job searching goes well.
robski
All the best for next week, hope you have a decent solicitor etc fired up, if you do need a top class employment lawyer I can get details of a very good one.
When I was having trouble at AXA he gave me a list of things to bear in mind for when it progressed. As such I didnt need it as I got voluntary redundancy and left the stinking cess pit
1 thing thats really handy to know is that during these discussions you can if you choose ask for recesses (have to be reasonable), you can also stop AT ANY POINT to consult an expert if you need to. Drop a "sorry I need to call my employment law expert regarding this, lets take a 5 min recess" into conversation and go make a phone call. By law they have to allow this in any case of misconduct or other serious employment dispute. Most companies try to avoid this type of thing but its your legal right to do it.
Best of luck, hope the job searching goes well.
robski
25 May 2004, 12:50 PM
#306
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Sorry I did'nt get round to updating this yesterday..
Anyway, heres the latest:
Went to the appeal hearing as scheduled, I was present along with the MD and a minute taker for each of us.
I had a prepared written statement, I went for broke...
I Then asked a couple of Questions:
The MD has since called my brother this morning to discuss what was said at during the telephone call, The MD will have his decision by this Monday, so I will finally be able to get the Tribunbal moving.
Can't wait for all this to finish, it's gonna ,make excellent reading
Still looking for Jobs
Thanks again for everyones comments over the past month and a bit
Tim
Anyway, heres the latest:
Went to the appeal hearing as scheduled, I was present along with the MD and a minute taker for each of us.
I had a prepared written statement, I went for broke...
I wish to make the following statement in support of my appeal.
On the XXth XXXX 2004 an incident occurred in the car park of XXXX at which my property was vandalised. The scene of this vandalism was by my request attended by Cheshire constabulary, who have agreed that an illegal act of vandalism occurred and advise me that they have taken steps against the perpetrators. Cheshire Constabulary have also advised that the scene of the vandalism was "calm" upon their arrival.
The events that took place when I arrived on the scene and subsequently have been the subject of numerous statements taken by XXXX management, which show considerable inconsistencies. I would in support of this refer you to the submission that I made at my initial disciplinary hearing on the XXth XXXX 2004. (The 9 pager! )
I have been advised by my lawyers that no events that took place at that time are in themselves reasonable grounds for outright dismissal. I have additionally been advised that actions taken by XXXX clearly breach best practise for the treatment of suspended employees, and that where this has caused undue distress XXXX may be liable to additional civil action. I have also been advised to follow up this formal route of appeal.
Disappointedly I note that in a phone conversation with my brother - Mark XXXX - some days ago, XJohn SmithX (chap investigating) suggested that the matter was closed and that an appeal would not be successful. This appears to contradict any claim that this is an objective process of appeal because it seems to have already been prejudged by XXXX management.
I would however take this opportunity to ask that you reconsider the decision to dismiss me as per your formal appeals procedure. I believe that this process has been unfairly, unprofessionally, and incompetently handled to date, and I hope that your personal intervention will inject the first bit of professionalism into this whole affair.
I am very disappointed at the way that XXXX management have treated me, which I feel falls well short of their legal obligations under a duty of care to an employee, and has clearly breached the legal framework for disciplinary action.
XXJohn SmithXX advised me on the date of my initial disciplinary hearing, that the CCTV tapes for that day remained in existence. I would again respectfully request a copy of this evidence, and additionally remind you that any attempt to destroy or erase this material prior to a tribunal hearing will now be viewed with considerable suspicion. Your solicitors will confirm to you that you are best advised to retain these tapes now that I have requested this happen, and my solicitors may serve an injunction against XXXXX to prevent any premature disposal of this medium.
Given our previous professional relationship, I am personally disappointed that you have not seen fit to intervene in this process as it escalated. I hope that now you have examined it formally you will be in a position to reverse a clearly incorrect decision made by some of your junior staff.
Yours sincerely,
On the XXth XXXX 2004 an incident occurred in the car park of XXXX at which my property was vandalised. The scene of this vandalism was by my request attended by Cheshire constabulary, who have agreed that an illegal act of vandalism occurred and advise me that they have taken steps against the perpetrators. Cheshire Constabulary have also advised that the scene of the vandalism was "calm" upon their arrival.
The events that took place when I arrived on the scene and subsequently have been the subject of numerous statements taken by XXXX management, which show considerable inconsistencies. I would in support of this refer you to the submission that I made at my initial disciplinary hearing on the XXth XXXX 2004. (The 9 pager!
)I have been advised by my lawyers that no events that took place at that time are in themselves reasonable grounds for outright dismissal. I have additionally been advised that actions taken by XXXX clearly breach best practise for the treatment of suspended employees, and that where this has caused undue distress XXXX may be liable to additional civil action. I have also been advised to follow up this formal route of appeal.
Disappointedly I note that in a phone conversation with my brother - Mark XXXX - some days ago, XJohn SmithX (chap investigating) suggested that the matter was closed and that an appeal would not be successful. This appears to contradict any claim that this is an objective process of appeal because it seems to have already been prejudged by XXXX management.
I would however take this opportunity to ask that you reconsider the decision to dismiss me as per your formal appeals procedure. I believe that this process has been unfairly, unprofessionally, and incompetently handled to date, and I hope that your personal intervention will inject the first bit of professionalism into this whole affair.
I am very disappointed at the way that XXXX management have treated me, which I feel falls well short of their legal obligations under a duty of care to an employee, and has clearly breached the legal framework for disciplinary action.
XXJohn SmithXX advised me on the date of my initial disciplinary hearing, that the CCTV tapes for that day remained in existence. I would again respectfully request a copy of this evidence, and additionally remind you that any attempt to destroy or erase this material prior to a tribunal hearing will now be viewed with considerable suspicion. Your solicitors will confirm to you that you are best advised to retain these tapes now that I have requested this happen, and my solicitors may serve an injunction against XXXXX to prevent any premature disposal of this medium.
Given our previous professional relationship, I am personally disappointed that you have not seen fit to intervene in this process as it escalated. I hope that now you have examined it formally you will be in a position to reverse a clearly incorrect decision made by some of your junior staff.
Yours sincerely,
Why did XXXX say to an employee "He's out" only days after my
suspension?
Why did XXThe companyXX protract the suspension and investigation for longer
than recommended guidelines dealing with the suspension of staff?
Why have XXThe CompanyXX encouraged staff to falsify statements and then
proceeded down a disciplinary route on the basis of conflicting and non
corroborative evidence?
suspension?
Why did XXThe companyXX protract the suspension and investigation for longer
than recommended guidelines dealing with the suspension of staff?
Why have XXThe CompanyXX encouraged staff to falsify statements and then
proceeded down a disciplinary route on the basis of conflicting and non
corroborative evidence?
Can't wait for all this to finish, it's gonna ,make excellent reading
Still looking for Jobs
Thanks again for everyones comments over the past month and a bit
Tim
Last edited by sti555; 25 May 2004 at 12:52 PM.
25 May 2004, 12:59 PM
#308
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Originally Posted by sti555
Still looking for Jobs
Thanks again for everyones comments over the past month and a bit
Tim
Thanks again for everyones comments over the past month and a bit
Tim
Bex
25 May 2004, 01:38 PM
#312
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I suspect their lawyers may suggest an out of court settlement at some point given that it now sounds like they are in the wrong....
Would you accept that, or would you want to take them to court anyhow on a point of principle?
Would you accept that, or would you want to take them to court anyhow on a point of principle?
25 May 2004, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by imlach
I suspect their lawyers may suggest an out of court settlement at some point given that it now sounds like they are in the wrong....
Would you accept that, or would you want to take them to court anyhow on a point of principle?
Would you accept that, or would you want to take them to court anyhow on a point of principle?
In my opinion the way they treated me is particularly bad and should'nt be simply brushed under the carpet.
Remember this company has a proven track record for ex employees that have all successfully taken them to tribunal or settled prior for substantial settlements.
It really is company policy to take this sort of risk, in most cases it pays off, most people dont' bother fighting for whats right and just, I certainly wont be another case of:
Pay up and Shut up
It's about time they realise these policys are outdated, morally wrong and breach employment guidlines, perhaps the only way is a combination of publicity and financial penaltys..
I for one would'nt want anybody else to suffer a simialr fate... it makes me mad
Ggggrrrrrr
after reading that back it's time for another "GO Tim, Go Tim" Jerry Springer style reply! lol
25 May 2004, 09:31 PM
#326
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Tim i have just spent over a hour reading this thread again m8
and i now want to shake you by the hand and kick there f'in "windows in"
CUMON m8 stick to your Gun's
it will all come good
C U soon m8
and i now want to shake you by the hand and kick there f'in "windows in"
CUMON m8 stick to your Gun's
it will all come good
C U soon m8
25 May 2004, 09:38 PM
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Reno,
Thanks mate, still looking for a decent job though
btw managed to get a job packing muller yogurts today, quite like crunch corners so may be alright lol
Appointment with the solicitors again in the morning, so hoping things will get moving.
See you soon mate
Tim
Thanks mate, still looking for a decent job though
btw managed to get a job packing muller yogurts today, quite like crunch corners so may be alright lol
Appointment with the solicitors again in the morning, so hoping things will get moving.
See you soon mate
Tim
26 May 2004, 05:08 AM
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I've just read this thread for the first time tim as I don't normaly look in this section. Didn't realise it was still going on. Its killed an hour or so at work with a bit of interesting reading. Good luck with it all, I'll probably see you at the next meet.
26 May 2004, 01:48 PM
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OK mini update,
Looks like I may have a job as Office Clerk asap instead of the yogurt packer which is nice.
No news from the company as yet..
Have spoken to the solictors again this morning, basically the fun starts next week, along with the filing of the unfair dismissal claim, so we should start to see some progress shortly..
Still looking for other IT related jobs and applying like crazy for everything..
the uncensored "having a bad day" official site and merchandise will be launched next week too lol...
I can see it now...
little bored as you can tell
cant wait to do another days work 
Looks like I may have a job as Office Clerk asap instead of the yogurt packer which is nice.
No news from the company as yet..
Have spoken to the solictors again this morning, basically the fun starts next week, along with the filing of the unfair dismissal claim, so we should start to see some progress shortly..
Still looking for other IT related jobs and applying like crazy for everything..
the uncensored "having a bad day" official site and merchandise will be launched next week too
lol...I can see it now...
little bored as you can tell
cant wait to do another days work