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How do you train for big stength 2 weight ratio?

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Old 31 March 2004, 10:41 PM
  #31  
TelBoy
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But aren't we specifically trying to limit weight gain here, to *increase* the strength to weight ratio??

Getting strong by bulking up is easy, that's what i've done!
Old 31 March 2004, 10:58 PM
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fatherpierre
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So have I.

But I get the impression he wants to be lean and strong a La Bruce Lee.

But on the inverse, getting bigger doesn't mean you are stronger. My mate is 2st heavier than me, yet the same level of fitness, build etc. He can only bench 55kg to my 100+kg.

Press ups is where to start. I learnt this @17 in the military doing 500 - 1000 per day and noticed how strong I became in weeks.
Old 01 April 2004, 12:57 AM
  #33  
Scooby owner one day
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Originally Posted by TelBoy
But aren't we specifically trying to limit weight gain here, to *increase* the strength to weight ratio??

Getting strong by bulking up is easy, that's what i've done!
I wish I found it easy I`ve never been able to do it , how many extra calories do I need I`m usually on about 2000-2500 a day I think and how much protein I`m just over 11 stone. Is training twice a week enough? I just get fat if I eat more!
Old 01 April 2004, 06:26 AM
  #34  
TelBoy
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SOOD, it's difficult to adequately explain on here what it takes to dramatically change a body. I see guys going through the motions, week after week, never looking any different. The guys who DO change have a level of intensity, of desire, that you either have or you don't. You have to want to squat - most don't. You have to want to go through the pain barrier - most don't. You have to want to eat healthily, in large quantities - most don't. You have to want to give up the clubbing and alcohol - most don't. The list goes on. It's a lifestyle thing.

To answer the specific questions - i'm training relatively seriously at the moment, and would estimate i'm on something like 4 - 5,000 calories per day, and something like 200g of protein, i'd estimate. I train three times a week, and sometimes throw in a fourth. I lift as heavy as i can, every time. And, possibly most crucially, i have a great training partner, who's almost as mental as i am. That combination is enough to make real changes. HTH
Old 01 April 2004, 07:53 AM
  #35  
Turbo Dave
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Originally Posted by Scooby owner one day
I wish I found it easy I`ve never been able to do it , how many extra calories do I need I`m usually on about 2000-2500 a day I think and how much protein I`m just over 11 stone. Is training twice a week enough? I just get fat if I eat more!
Hi mate i lift weights and heres what you need to do and it is'nt easy
Train one bodypart once per week only mon shoulders/lats
wed/chest/ abs
Fri/ Calfs and thighs

Eating wise you need to consume six meals a day all with protein and carbs
like chicken and rice, oats and promax etc.
At weekends you can cheat and have pizza etc, as this stops your body getting used to the idea of eating healthy.
Its not easy and its dead boring at times.
have a look on www.muscletalk.co.uk for more.
Old 01 April 2004, 08:16 AM
  #36  
LG John
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Strength comes from lifting heavy. Period.

Strength to weight ratio means keeping a lid on calorie intake.
This is why I thought the way to achieve it might be to bulk up by lifting heavy weights and eating lots and then to cut back the weight and switch your training so that your are building muscle endurance. Basically you phyiscally GET the strength and big muscles then you cut away the fat and train those muscles to last long at that level. Is that a winning approach?

Another thing that has always bugged me is that I usually have a chest and tricepts workout near the end of the week and on Saturday at kuk sool often find myself doing lots of pressups (you know the drill, 5 kicks on each leg, 20 press ups, 10 kicks on each leg.....). Would this cause overtraining doing pressups outwith normal chest/tricept training? Could I do pressup's every day but only do a proper HEAVY chest/tricept workout once a week and not overtrain?
Old 01 April 2004, 08:25 AM
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fatherpierre
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Press up every day is fine. I've done them every day for 13 years (more or less) and I do weights to a variable programme.

Press ups alone will get you to a finite level of strength due to the fact that the push you are doing is always the same unless you strap a weight to your upper back or alter the style of press.
Old 01 April 2004, 08:36 AM
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Turbo Dave
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Originally Posted by Saxo Boy
This is why I thought the way to achieve it might be to bulk up by lifting heavy weights and eating lots and then to cut back the weight and switch your training so that your are building muscle endurance. Basically you phyiscally GET the strength and big muscles then you cut away the fat and train those muscles to last long at that level. Is that a winning approach?

Another thing that has always bugged me is that I usually have a chest and tricepts workout near the end of the week and on Saturday at kuk sool often find myself doing lots of pressups (you know the drill, 5 kicks on each leg, 20 press ups, 10 kicks on each leg.....). Would this cause overtraining doing pressups outwith normal chest/tricept training? Could I do pressup's every day but only do a proper HEAVY chest/tricept workout once a week and not overtrain?
No you should'nt do pressups daily as its to much!!!
If you want to get big you need to train each bodypart only once per week
and if your thin cut all cardio all together.
And by doing pressups daily is not going to help your abs your legs etc
Old 01 April 2004, 08:39 AM
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I completely disagree........

Once you condition the relevant muscles with press ups they are fine. Press ups are low intensity and require very little effort once you learn to do them in decent numbers and properly.

That's like saying you shouldn't walk every day or pick things up as it uses muscle power.
Old 01 April 2004, 08:44 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by fatherpierre
I completely disagree........

Once you condition the relevant muscles with press ups they are fine. Press ups are low intensity and require very little effort once you learn to do them in decent numbers and properly.

That's like saying you shouldn't walk every day or pick things up as it uses muscle power.
Thats not the same as a guy wanting to get big!!
You are going to trash your muscle by doing that everyday and it wont grow.
walking and working your muscles to faliure are to seperate things altogether.

Go on muscletalk and ask the same thing and you will get the same as ive said
But hey what do i know i'm only a personal trainer!!!!
Old 01 April 2004, 08:50 AM
  #41  
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Well they should be trashed as I've been doing them more or less every day for 13 years!! But they're not. Far from it.

Getting big is different - I was just answering SB's question on press ups.

Lifting big weights every day and using the same muscle groups will, of course damage those (over)used muscles.

Come to think of it my biceps are on fire from a bit too much lifting last night.........
Old 01 April 2004, 08:58 AM
  #42  
TelBoy
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Lifting big weights every day and using the same muscle groups will, of course damage those (over)used muscles.
Well, 18 years after getting into it, i've rarely been in better shape, and have never had a serious weight-lifting related injury (touch wood)....
Old 01 April 2004, 08:59 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by fatherpierre
Well they should be trashed as I've been doing them more or less every day for 13 years!! But they're not. Far from it.

Getting big is different - I was just answering SB's question on press ups.

Lifting big weights every day and using the same muscle groups will, of course damage those (over)used muscles.

Come to think of it my biceps are on fire from a bit too much lifting last night.........
well surely you must see then that if your biceps are on fire now then you should'nt do your pressups later
Otherwise it is'nt worth doing it at all coz you wo'nt of gained
Old 01 April 2004, 09:00 AM
  #44  
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You've tempted fate now........

Cue Telboys slipped disc thread.
Old 01 April 2004, 09:02 AM
  #45  
TelBoy
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Hopefully not!!

But there's a big difference between ego-hoisting and intelligent weight training....
Old 01 April 2004, 09:05 AM
  #46  
fatherpierre
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Originally Posted by TelBoy
But there's a big difference between ego-hoisting and intelligent weight training....
Oh yes.

I train where I currently work and there's this one dick who lifts in front of a mirror with his top off. ****.
Old 01 April 2004, 10:27 AM
  #47  
grovesy
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I can bench press 350 kg
shoulder press 300 kg
and squat 800kg

and I'm only 11 stone......


If you would like to know how to achieve this send me £50 and I will send you training guide
Old 01 April 2004, 11:07 AM
  #48  
LG John
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£50 in the post

We seemed to have a mixed opinion on the pressups thing. Is doing pressups to failure effectively no different (in term of damage to muscles requiring food and rest for recovery) to going to the gym and doing a routine of bench press, skull crushers, flys, etc to failure?
Old 01 April 2004, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Turbo Dave
well surely you must see then that if your biceps are on fire now then you should'nt do your pressups later
Otherwise it is'nt worth doing it at all coz you wo'nt of gained
The biceps muscles are not involved in the press-ups exercise.
Old 01 April 2004, 02:49 PM
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climbers are pumpers. Go bouldering !

The secret in power to weight ration is "Plyometrics" and climbers typically use Wolfgang Gullich's invention, the campus board. Also, systems boards and quite frankly, a shedload of bouldering.

Also the fella who said 3-5 for bulk, and 5-12 for strength, its the other way around. Maximum power is arrived from resisting a negative movement that is greater than 1max rep. 1-5 reps will cause muscular tears, and done properly can supercompensate for power, see gymnasts training. 5-12 is lactic acid territory, and those who want to bulk up with glycogen (.. and fat)

Good luck, oh btw, the best climber is never the most powerful climber.
Old 01 April 2004, 04:00 PM
  #51  
LG John
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In the same way the best martial arts person isn't the most powerful but having a strong strength to weight ratio has many advantages IMHO
Old 01 April 2004, 06:52 PM
  #52  
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Hope it goes well Saxo
My post was about what has worked for me personaly. At the end of the day it is what works for you. I still feel that exercises that utilise your own body are the best such as Press Ups, Chin Ups etc for that wiry lean kind of rock climing martial art strength.

Best wishes
Steve
Old 08 April 2004, 08:42 PM
  #53  
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been away, so havent had the chance to throw my 2 cents into the mix until now

for training for pure strength and NOT hypertrophy, look into peroidization and dual factor training (in fact heck, even if you're a bodybuilder, wake up and look into it). this is what ALL athletes apart from bodybuilders follow. there's absolutely no reason to go to failure with pure strength training. follow an olympic style routine. some of these guys on these types of routines are able to deadlift 4 times their own bodyweight, which is quite amazing. then again, they are tiny

FORGET everything you've ever been told about training to failure, resting a lot etc etc... strength training is a whole different world. look at ANY olympic lifters' routine and you'll find them training 10-20 times a WEEK (not a mis-print) with low-volume sessions peroidized. and they lift a shed load more than bodybuilders.
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