Greater Manchester Police football club...
21 February 2004, 01:07 PM
#32
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Before I start I am not saying what the police did is right. The kicking of the guy and him banging his head on the van were way out of order.
But, I have seen the unedited full tape from start to finish and it is not as bad as it is being made out. He does his best at the beginning not to get arrested, so they use CS gas which seems to make him a little angry but does subdue him somewhat. The police then manage to get him to the ground whilst they wait for a van. Then nothing happens for a couple of minutes, he starts moving a bit and one of the cops kicks him four times (not good.)
This is obviously not how we want our police to behave but, take into consideration the following:
He was drunk.
He had just smashed a bus stop showering some girls with broken glass.
He has a history of violence which the police were aware of.
He was resisting arrest.
There was no complaint made at the time, only now has he decided to complain after learning the courts decision to prosecute.
I fear one of two things from this.
1.
People will spin it to be some massive racist issue, which it is not, people are treated like that and worse in the past (remember the video footage of the cop last year booting a white 17 year old student in the gob?)
2.
he gets off the crime he commited earlier in the night so long as he "forgets" about the incident on CCTV and decides not to take it further.
3.
Both happen and he whacks in a massive compensation claim. This sounds like it will definatley happen as he keeps on refering to the injuries to his groin. Future sex life problems are the number one thing brought up in compo claims.
All in my honest opinion of course.
But, I have seen the unedited full tape from start to finish and it is not as bad as it is being made out. He does his best at the beginning not to get arrested, so they use CS gas which seems to make him a little angry but does subdue him somewhat. The police then manage to get him to the ground whilst they wait for a van. Then nothing happens for a couple of minutes, he starts moving a bit and one of the cops kicks him four times (not good.)
This is obviously not how we want our police to behave but, take into consideration the following:
He was drunk.
He had just smashed a bus stop showering some girls with broken glass.
He has a history of violence which the police were aware of.
He was resisting arrest.
There was no complaint made at the time, only now has he decided to complain after learning the courts decision to prosecute.
I fear one of two things from this.
1.
People will spin it to be some massive racist issue, which it is not, people are treated like that and worse in the past (remember the video footage of the cop last year booting a white 17 year old student in the gob?)
2.
he gets off the crime he commited earlier in the night so long as he "forgets" about the incident on CCTV and decides not to take it further.
3.
Both happen and he whacks in a massive compensation claim. This sounds like it will definatley happen as he keeps on refering to the injuries to his groin. Future sex life problems are the number one thing brought up in compo claims.
All in my honest opinion of course.
21 February 2004, 04:05 PM
#33
Originally Posted by **************
LOL @ FB
I bet if he had been white it would never have made it on to telly. Any scum bag who resists arrest like this moron deserves what they get - it was hardly as though they beat the living crap out of him for christ sake (no mention of broken ribs or serious injury for a start). I don't care what colour any person is if they resist arrest like this idiot then expect physical force. I should imagine there are loads of arrests like this everyday that include white people but because this one was caught on telly and he was black that means it must have been a racial attack
More like they were feked off with him trying to get away and flailing his arms about and resisting arrest that he got a kicking. But oh no in this country it will never be looked at that way as the non white person is always the victim
Edited to say if he hadn't committed a crime then he wouldn't have been in this position in the first place so he would do good to learn from his experiences then wouldn't he! Someone finally gets a little bit of justice at last and now he is going to sue the police allegedly. ******* joke
To make this clear though, if he hadn't resisted arrest like he did and got the same treatment then I would be fully supporting the views of those who are outraged by this incident.
I bet if he had been white it would never have made it on to telly. Any scum bag who resists arrest like this moron deserves what they get - it was hardly as though they beat the living crap out of him for christ sake (no mention of broken ribs or serious injury for a start). I don't care what colour any person is if they resist arrest like this idiot then expect physical force. I should imagine there are loads of arrests like this everyday that include white people but because this one was caught on telly and he was black that means it must have been a racial attack
More like they were feked off with him trying to get away and flailing his arms about and resisting arrest that he got a kicking. But oh no in this country it will never be looked at that way as the non white person is always the victim Edited to say if he hadn't committed a crime then he wouldn't have been in this position in the first place so he would do good to learn from his experiences then wouldn't he! Someone finally gets a little bit of justice at last and now he is going to sue the police allegedly. ******* joke
To make this clear though, if he hadn't resisted arrest like he did and got the same treatment then I would be fully supporting the views of those who are outraged by this incident.
What are you on about?...Footage of a white copper punching a white teenager did get similar media coverage.
Obviously have a chip on your shoulder.
I dread to think how often this type of police brutality goes on unchecked. I doubt very much that everytime incidents like this occur they are caught on film...more like it goes on alot and they get caught out occasionally.
NOT what I pay my taxes for.
Another great recruitment video for the Police Force. Am sure they will have right-wing extremists queing up!
21 February 2004, 04:14 PM
#34
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Burr can we take it from your statement, that this is because the kicking King received was from the officer that he had made a complaint about in the past? What would you of done in this case Burr, would you of said nothing back at the station to who ever could of taken appropriate action or would it of involved a few 'I was not looking in that direction, didn't see anything' statements as looks to of taken place in this case as it took King appearing in court for any action to be instigated against the officer involved. While the others that did nothing to stop the attack carry on as if nothing happened. From this behaviour I presume we can take it that this is a 'normal' 'everyday' occurrence which is why none of his colleagues did a thing to stop this brutality from taking place.
I was just referring to the last line of the news story you referred to in your opening post.
The officer has not been suspended. There is no racial element to this incident.
Last edited by BuRR; 21 February 2004 at 04:17 PM.
21 February 2004, 04:28 PM
#35
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BOB'5 did it? Funny that I must have missed that then as I know it was publicised but I certainly don't remember it getting the sort of coverage this incident is getting.
And no I don't have a chip on my shoulder about it. I have been on the receiving end of some unorthodox police behaviour and it was not pleasant but then I was not refusing arrest or had commited any offence so there wasn' t a lot they could do. They tried to provoke me into a response by pushing me against a wall and I simply didn't play their game and just stood their saying what you gonna do next then as im not going to hit you as thats clearly what you are trying to get me to do. After that they stepped back. When you get coppers such as that you are a **** if you fall into their traps.
Anyone who resists arrest or fights back is asking for trouble in my opinion.
And no I don't have a chip on my shoulder about it. I have been on the receiving end of some unorthodox police behaviour and it was not pleasant but then I was not refusing arrest or had commited any offence so there wasn' t a lot they could do. They tried to provoke me into a response by pushing me against a wall and I simply didn't play their game and just stood their saying what you gonna do next then as im not going to hit you as thats clearly what you are trying to get me to do. After that they stepped back. When you get coppers such as that you are a **** if you fall into their traps.
Anyone who resists arrest or fights back is asking for trouble in my opinion.
21 February 2004, 06:52 PM
#36
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The story of the white kid getting a shoeing had massive coverage. Front page of the tabloids, BBC Radio and TV. It was a big story at the time. Although this one looks like it will be bigger.
21 February 2004, 09:07 PM
#39
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Personally I don't see what all the fuss is about.
A very powerful guy, who has been drinking, resists arrest after committing a crime. He get some taps with a foot. Yes, taps. It looked to me like the copper concerned was trying to prevent him from holding onto something rather than anything even approaching retaliatory kicking.
As for "brutality" - you guys must have lead a very sheltered life. Watch a film like Irreversible for an example of brutality.
Something of more concern to me were the amount of officers having to be involved. How much police time was wasted because this idiot resisted arrest? How much more time will be wasted investigating this incident?
A very powerful guy, who has been drinking, resists arrest after committing a crime. He get some taps with a foot. Yes, taps. It looked to me like the copper concerned was trying to prevent him from holding onto something rather than anything even approaching retaliatory kicking.
As for "brutality" - you guys must have lead a very sheltered life. Watch a film like Irreversible for an example of brutality.
Something of more concern to me were the amount of officers having to be involved. How much police time was wasted because this idiot resisted arrest? How much more time will be wasted investigating this incident?
Last edited by Jerome; 21 February 2004 at 09:08 PM.
23 February 2004, 12:11 AM
#40
Originally Posted by Jerome
Personally I don't see what all the fuss is about.
A very powerful guy, who has been drinking, resists arrest after committing a crime. He get some taps with a foot. Yes, taps. It looked to me like the copper concerned was trying to prevent him from holding onto something rather than anything even approaching retaliatory kicking.
As for "brutality" - you guys must have lead a very sheltered life. Watch a film like Irreversible for an example of brutality.
Something of more concern to me were the amount of officers having to be involved. How much police time was wasted because this idiot resisted arrest? How much more time will be wasted investigating this incident?
A very powerful guy, who has been drinking, resists arrest after committing a crime. He get some taps with a foot. Yes, taps. It looked to me like the copper concerned was trying to prevent him from holding onto something rather than anything even approaching retaliatory kicking.
As for "brutality" - you guys must have lead a very sheltered life. Watch a film like Irreversible for an example of brutality.
Something of more concern to me were the amount of officers having to be involved. How much police time was wasted because this idiot resisted arrest? How much more time will be wasted investigating this incident?
You are kidding? have you seen all the footage? He is repeatidly kicked while handcuffed and pinned down by other police officers...then to top it all he has his head smashed as he was thrown into the van. Mad me cringe just watching the footage.
The **** of a copper involved should be prosecuted as prescribed by the law, as should the criminal/victim....not blasted with CS gas at close range, then pinned down cuffed, kicked and then have his head (a vital body part) smashed into the van.
...maybe the copper deserves the same treatment for breaking the law?
23 February 2004, 12:49 AM
#41
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To put this into some sort of perspective...........this sort of incident between non Police people happens everyday, some caught on CCTV some not, and no one is making a huge outcry about the alcohol that causes violence or the violence itself.
The people involved can be from ANY job and ANY background!!!!
One or two incidents involving one or two police officers who may or may not have been in or out of order does not compare.
Just a thought.
The people involved can be from ANY job and ANY background!!!!
One or two incidents involving one or two police officers who may or may not have been in or out of order does not compare.
Just a thought.
23 February 2004, 01:01 AM
#42
Originally Posted by Danbo
To put this into some sort of perspective...........this sort of incident between non Police people happens everyday, some caught on CCTV some not, and no one is making a huge outcry about the alcohol that causes violence or the violence itself.
The people involved can be from ANY job and ANY background!!!!
One or two incidents involving one or two police officers who may or may not have been in or out of order does not compare.
Just a thought.
The people involved can be from ANY job and ANY background!!!!
One or two incidents involving one or two police officers who may or may not have been in or out of order does not compare.
Just a thought.
How can one make a comparison between 'non-police people' and Police officers.
One or two incidents????....come on. We ain't so naive to believe that it gets caught on camera everytime it happens. My guess is it happens ALOT more often than is brought to light.
23 February 2004, 11:46 AM
#43
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Bravo2 zero I did not at any point call you a **** and I did not say that he should be given 'five star treatment' so why say that I did ? Is reading a problem for you ? You have come out and made the statement that its only news becuase he is black which is absolute rubbish; a man being beaten by police when he is already in cuffs when by sheer coincidence its the same officer he has complained about is news wether the person involved is black or white. Coming to conclusions like that when there is no evidence to support those cinclusions makes me think that you read the daily mail to much and need to get out more.
Last edited by Luan Pra bang; 23 February 2004 at 12:13 PM.
23 February 2004, 11:54 AM
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I also find it funny that you feel like you know this man so well you can call him a scumbag you make no consideration of the fact that there is an established problem with ex army personel being re introduced into society and the fact that you say 'Someone finally gets a little bit of justice ' shows you up a little becuase I thaught it was a courts job to hand out justice with fines and prison sentences no a policemans job by kicking people in the nuts. If you really believe that the police should hand out justice how about you start by letting police kick you in the nuts every time you speed ?
23 February 2004, 11:54 AM
#45
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I suggest you start a help group for all those other white males like yourself who are so oppressed in this country you could call it Total Whites Against Totalitarian minority rule or **** for short
I suggest you read what you type in future before denying you have said something
You have come out and made the statement that its only news becuase he is white which is absolute rubbish
For your information I don't read any one inparticular newspaper and you need to grow up by labelling someone by the newspaper they read ffs
23 February 2004, 11:57 AM
#46
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Luan grow up ffs, so because he is ex military and finds it hard to integrate into society thats ok then is it? You know him so well do you that you know his excuse is because he finds it hard to integrate back into civvy life? You are criticizing me for making assumptions when in fact you are doing excatly the same He committed a crime and then resisted arrest so yes I do expect him to get rough treatment for the fact he wouldnt go quietly. Serves him right for being an ar$ehole in the first place and then thinking he can just walk away and resist arrest.
He committed a crime and then resisted arrest so yes I do expect him to get rough treatment for the fact he wouldnt go quietly. Serves him right for being an ar$ehole in the first place and then thinking he can just walk away and resist arrest.
23 February 2004, 12:00 PM
#47
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The officer wasnt kicking the gentleman on the floor.
He was simply trying to get something off the bottom of his shoe.
Does anyone else think it was a half hearted attempt at a 'good kicking'.
I would nt have him on my 'kicking' team.
On a serious note: I think it was out of order, but it happens all the time. And not just by the police.
Did you read about the traffic warden who poked some guys glass eye out with his walkie talkie?
Just because he beeped his horn at him!
And this is true, he was in court last week.
Your all waiting for the punch line, but there isnt one.
Later Yoza
He was simply trying to get something off the bottom of his shoe.
Does anyone else think it was a half hearted attempt at a 'good kicking'.
I would nt have him on my 'kicking' team.
On a serious note: I think it was out of order, but it happens all the time. And not just by the police.
Did you read about the traffic warden who poked some guys glass eye out with his walkie talkie?
Just because he beeped his horn at him!
And this is true, he was in court last week.
Your all waiting for the punch line, but there isnt one.
Later Yoza
23 February 2004, 12:04 PM
#48
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Yoza thats the point I was trying to make in an earlier post, it wasnt a severe kicking. Its almost like he was trying to get him to stop doing something - whether it was grabbing onto something or whatever. If he had given him hard kicks the "victim" would have ended up with broken ribs for starters, which from what I have heard hasn't been the case.
23 February 2004, 12:10 PM
#49
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He kicked him about as hard as Michael Owen kicked that 'kin penalty yesterday.
If your going to kick someone, and you want to put him out of action, you need a head shot. Take a run up and put some back swing into it.
You dont slide your foot along the floor like a 'reverse Michael Jackson moon walk'! Maybe he just wanted to pinch him.
If your going to kick someone, and you want to put him out of action, you need a head shot. Take a run up and put some back swing into it.
You dont slide your foot along the floor like a 'reverse Michael Jackson moon walk'! Maybe he just wanted to pinch him.
23 February 2004, 12:11 PM
#50
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It is of no consequence whether he had stolen a stack of cars or not. I have no special sympathy towards the guy but to see a copper behaving as he did towards him was particularly sickening. He did not appear in the video to be violent towards the Police, he seemed to be ambling about and even though he was not keen to be arrested the treatment he received was well and truly beyond the pale!
It is illegal for a copper to behave as he did towards an arrested person, and it can only be assumed that he was kicking him deliberately for his own reasons. I cannot think of any defence he can put up for those actions.
All very well to say how you might feel if he stole your car, but how would you like our police force to become so elitist and overbearing that they think they can just treat suspects any way they feel like including roughing them up and banging their heads on the roof on the police truck? There is no way it can be said to be PC to insist that the Police observe the law during an arrest.
Les
It is illegal for a copper to behave as he did towards an arrested person, and it can only be assumed that he was kicking him deliberately for his own reasons. I cannot think of any defence he can put up for those actions.
All very well to say how you might feel if he stole your car, but how would you like our police force to become so elitist and overbearing that they think they can just treat suspects any way they feel like including roughing them up and banging their heads on the roof on the police truck? There is no way it can be said to be PC to insist that the Police observe the law during an arrest.
Les
23 February 2004, 12:19 PM
#51
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A quick look at this thread shows the typical polarisation of opinions and what 'side' you are on.
The arrested man should be arrested and charged for his crime.
The policemen should be arrested and charged for his crime.
Then leave it to the CPS & courts to sort out.
Just because one is wrong, doesn't make the other one right. It appears in this case, both the arrested and the policeman BOTH commited crimes.
The arrested man should be arrested and charged for his crime.
The policemen should be arrested and charged for his crime.
Then leave it to the CPS & courts to sort out.
Just because one is wrong, doesn't make the other one right. It appears in this case, both the arrested and the policeman BOTH commited crimes.
23 February 2004, 12:19 PM
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Bravo I insinuated (with an s ) that you may be a **** which is a point you are helping to prove nicely. My other point is that you are not in a position to call him a scumbag just as I am not in a position to say he isn't I was raising a possibility that he wasn't a scumbag as I try not to make rash assumptions when I don't know all the facts you could try the same.
23 February 2004, 12:26 PM
#53
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LOL you really can't help yourself can you, first you call me one, then you deny you have then you call me one again Enough said. I know who the **** is and its not me
Oh and as for the spelling lesson stop being so pathetic. I am doing other things as well as just replying on here so to go and checking for typos isnt exactly my priority ffs
Enough said. I know who the **** is and its not me Oh and as for the spelling lesson stop being so pathetic. I am doing other things as well as just replying on here so to go and checking for typos isnt exactly my priority ffs
Last edited by Bravo2zero_sps; 23 February 2004 at 12:29 PM.
23 February 2004, 01:23 PM
#54
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Leslie have you only seen the video footage from the link on this thread? If so then yes it doesn't look as though the suspect had done anything wrong at all. I have only just looked at that link and can not believe it doesn't show the first couple of minutes before that clip starts when the suspect is being violent and throwing his arms all over the place when the police try and arrest him. Thats the effect edititing has on whats shown and what isnt shown. I have seen the full version and the suspect was being very 'animated' to say the least. That may give you a different perspective on the type of reaction they had been putting up with from this suspect.
23 February 2004, 01:32 PM
#55
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Regardless of what the bloke did or didn't do, the police are paid to catch criminals for the courts to charge.
They are not paid to kick in suspects once they have been caught. People may complain that this bloke resisted arrest, fair enough but the police are trained on how to deal with situations like that and i'm sure a good kick'in afterwards is not on the top of their list.
If the police can't handle their tempers or the people that they deal with everyday then they shouldn't be policemen or women.
Simple as that in my opinion, this officer should be charged for assault.
*edited due to spelling!!*
They are not paid to kick in suspects once they have been caught. People may complain that this bloke resisted arrest, fair enough but the police are trained on how to deal with situations like that and i'm sure a good kick'in afterwards is not on the top of their list.
If the police can't handle their tempers or the people that they deal with everyday then they shouldn't be policemen or women.
Simple as that in my opinion, this officer should be charged for assault.
*edited due to spelling!!*
Last edited by suprabeast; 23 February 2004 at 01:33 PM.
23 February 2004, 02:03 PM
#56
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In an attempt to provoke more discussion.... I thought I'd quote this here, taken from a message I received from a serving police officer. I've edited personal details out, but it just goes to show its not as cut-and-dry dealing with drunken people on the street as you might think.
Please note - I AM NOT trying to defend the police officer in the news at the moment - I'm just trying to show people that its not easy on the front line.
Please note - I AM NOT trying to defend the police officer in the news at the moment - I'm just trying to show people that its not easy on the front line.
We had just nicked this pissed guy for smashing the kebeb shop window. I had cuffed him and my crew mate shouted, i turned round and some *** jockey smacks me, smashed glasses. I let go of my prisoner and began rolling about on the floor with the other one and he hits me again.
23 February 2004, 02:37 PM
#57
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In no way am I defending what happened here, but there are some people out there who for various reasons do not feel pain. This can be caused by alcohol, drugs, mental health, adrenalin. When these people are resisting arrest it is very difficult to control them. Judging by the size of this guy, I doubt if a single pair of handcuffs would have fitted and it would appear that the officers were having to double/triple cuff him.
I usually use pressure points to control people like this, however, for the reasons stated above, they don't always work.
Cant see the point in kicking him, because he wont feel it.
I usually use pressure points to control people like this, however, for the reasons stated above, they don't always work.
Cant see the point in kicking him, because he wont feel it.
23 February 2004, 04:04 PM
#58
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suspect was being very 'animated'
Well if he was being animated thats the reason to kick him when he was on the floor and already cuffed and then bang his head the van. Can't have those pesky drunks being animated. It seems very possible in this instance that the policeman was getting revenge pure and simple.
I can agree that in dealing with the drunken pub spill out every saturday night the police have a hard job but the options are limited here. They could get the batons out and use them more often but this would be open to abuse and would also alienate the public from the police even more. On the other hand the police acting much stronger against their own officers in cases like this would definately help their public image rather than the refusal to prosectute and weak suspensions that people have come to expect.
23 February 2004, 04:24 PM
#59
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You only had to watch that programme on BBC 1 last night about Xmas drinkers in Plymouth, Swansea and Hartlepool to see what a hard job the police had trying to deal with and arrest drunks even when they were cuffed.
