imlach

To those who evade it, do you watch BBC?

If so, pay.

Some are happy to pay £40/month to Sky yet begrudge £10 to BBC!

The morality of this country is very very poor.

[Edited by imlach - 1/13/2004 3:38:05 PM]

imlach

Err...not really.

I have no kids, yet I pay for schools.
I don't swim, yet I pay for pools.
I haven't been in hossie for 20 years, yet I pay for them.

ajm

But there is no such thing as school tax, pool tax and hospital tax which is why no one can query its relevance to them in the same way.

If it is ok for the government to try and justify another tax by labelling it "TV License" then it surely must be ok to argue its relevance using the governments own terms!

imlach

if you have no tv, yes.

otherwise, no.

imlach

ajm wrote :
No, there isn't. However, it is all wrapped up in one transparent lump as PAYE or council tax usually.

B2Z's argument was :
The point being, he obviously wishes a "pay as you go" society as if he didn't need the use of schools, prisons, NHS, railtrack, etc, he wouldn't want to pay for them....

It just doesn't work like that I'm afraid.

If you have a dog, you need a dog licence.
If you have a gun, you need a gun licence.
If you want to drive a car, you need a tax disc, insurance, driving licence.
If you want a tv, you need a tv licence.

You knew that before you used/bought a tv, so you can't evade the requirement to purchase one on "I don't think it's right" terms.

It is morally no different from using a car without insurance. The goverment states you MUST have insurance, so MOST of us go out and buy it. You don't gain financially out of insurance, but at least you get some kind of return from a tv licence in terms of up to 24/7 entertainment if you so choose.

What does it cost? 25p/day? An episode of Top Gear must be worth 25p alone....I can't think of much more entertainment you'd get so cheaply.

Why oh why do some in the country expect everything for free and think they have a moral right to refuse to pay for certain things? Spoils it for the majority at the end of the day.

imlach

In fact, I wonder how long it'll be before the goverment incorporate the tv licence into an encrypted card along the lines of a Sky smartcard once we're all digital-ready?

Surely feasible (and Sky is pretty secure). I'm sure tv licence revenue would go through the roof, as I reckon most evaders don't evade on moral standpoints of "I don't watch the BBC", but rather pure financial evasion.

Take the "free" BBC away from them, and they'd soon be running to the Post Office to get a card.....

Shame on you all.


[Edited by imlach - 1/13/2004 6:34:06 PM]

imlach

I did read your post B2Z, and your implication was you didn't want to pay for something the goverment charge you for that you don't use.

I think that is a fair interpretation of :

However, the non-purchase of one was not aimed at you, as you have clearly stated you have one...it was aimed at the general audience.

[Edited by imlach - 1/13/2004 6:54:18 PM]

imlach

Sorry B2Z, perhaps I should clarify.

Yes, you have a tv licence and don't plan not to have one.

However, you are trying to advance an argument on reasons for not needing one, hence my opinions on your post

There....

eClaire

**Hands Uncle Ricky has big wooden spoon**

imlach

Not stirring at all eClaire....just pi$$ed off with the scum in this country that try to evade their responsibilities and goverment revenues....

...amd they are scum!

eClaire

That reminds me, I am still paying for my TV liscence from my flat in Sheffield must have paid it for the next year and a half at least!

Can i transfer one from Enland to Scotland? If not, will they give me a refund?

EDIT: Sorry, bit of a hijack!

[Edited by eClaire - 1/13/2004 7:17:12 PM]

imlach

Yes, you can transfer it. The licence if issued to a name, not an address. You need one per household issued to one name in that hosuehold.

[Edited by imlach - 1/13/2004 7:19:39 PM]

eClaire

Yep, its mines

imlach

I'm sure you can get a refund too if you no longer need it.....

Jye

I wish that link to the anti-TV licence site had never been published now, lol

It crazy that people have ended up in jail because they couldn't pay the fine for not having a TV licence though. At the same time that the bbc & hmg (indirectly of course) feel that its OK for people to become criminalised because they cant or wont pay for this crappy 'TV' licence, they get away with spending £3 million of 'our' money sending staff on muppety 'leadership' courses.

And for what? A load of crappy sitcoms and a sterile current affairs environment, broadcasting bland statements which must offend no one. What about sport then, don’t make me laugh, hoovered up by the satellite stations years ago. I wait with baited breath reasons why the bbc still exists today.

Forcing the public to pay only gives them an excuse to make piles of useless dross while calling it impartial (what a load of ballox that is), or art, or 'value for money'. Never heard of market forces? If it wasn’t for the licence fee the bbc couldn’t compete and would have went to the wall years ago, simple. OH, I forgot, they dont advertise. With the advent of Tivio etc how cool and completely 'useless' to me as a viewer.

Btw the £116 cost of a TV licence is a 'lot' of money for the less well off. And before anyone says 'well don’t buy a TV then or don't watch it', that's not the point; it’s the enforcement because of one corporation and the fines that pi$$es me off, the only dispensation is for pensioners over the age of 75 or the blind. Imagine Murdoch tried this, lol, 'you must watch Sky or we'll fine and perhaps jail you'.

It makes me laugh, all those who say, yeah we 'must' pay for service even if we don't use them. Why? Its time for the bbc to sling its hook imo, and long overdue.

This is about a government backed monopoly, about the bbc, one company (corporation) not just about something as global as general TV/ radio media. Wakey wakey.

I 'never' watch the bbc, not even the news (too untrustworthy these days), I never listen to bbc radio, not even in the car. At home I watch Sky, CNN etc and stream shoutcast internet radio to my hi-fi, much better than 'any' pap on the airwaves atm.

So why should I pay just so that the muppety cosmopolitan media elite can produce utter dross and force it down my neck with the threat of a £1000 fine and jail if I don’t like it? <rant off>

John (anti-stealth taxes, anti-bbc)


[Edited by Jye - 1/13/2004 7:23:45 PM]

Jye

In fact, why dont the few who agree with crap taxes and poor value 'licences' just give me 'all' their wages so that I dont have to go to work. After all even though I dont want to work, they must be made to pay for the work shy.

Sent all your cash to:

Jye @ dont want to work, wont work
but you should pay for me anyhow
dont tax my car but feel free to pay for me
uninsured, pay for this as well
in fact just take it up the **** for as long as you want
ayrshire
scotland

imlach

Jye,

I already pay enough for the workshy - or should I say, those that according to the goverment are "workshy", namely the fraudulent benefit claimers

Jye

--just pi$$ed off with the scum in this country that try to evade their responsibilities and goverment revenues....

...amd they are scum!--

Explain please. This is not really about government revenues afaik. And who is the scum comment directed at exactly. I know its not me but its a pretty low definition of anyone targeted on this thread imo.

Eastenders finsihed already? Wouldnt know, dont watch the shi*e

imlach

As I stated earlier, there is no difference from tv licence evasion or car tax evasion or car insurance evasion from a moral point of view.

Avoidance of all or any of the above groups them into scum IMHO.

imlach

Do you not watch either Top Gear or SPL footie then Jye?

Jye

BTW is you pushbike taxed m8, is it insured. Perhaps we'll keep this one for another time eh

Off to use the TV for some real 'no licence required' entertainment, PGR2. You coming Bob, or are you gonna argue the toSS in here or fight it out with W69

Back at 11.

John (online as jye, no tax reqired to play me, yet )

imlach

Err.....no, cos there is no requirement for it to be. I pay ALL taxes I should including road tax (so, I DO pay road tax!)

If there was a requirement, I would pay it.

Not a valid comparison.

Jye

Nope soz, hate 'all' football, hate Jeremy, prefer interactive media tbo, find a top gear or footie thread I've ever participated on (apart from slagging moses off for putting one in CWE's) and I'll eat my helmet

I'll be online in 2 mins imlach if you want to 'talk' while watching the TV, lol

Hail the tax free Xbox game PGR2, where we can talk shi*e without a licence

TTFN

Jye

And if the government says bend over m8, Tony and Cherie have had a spat. Will you? This is a licence mind, think you forgot that somewhere. BTW I tax both my car and my 2 m/bike's i.e. three taxes, guess Im paying for you cyclists

Bored now.

deffo ttfn

edited to say, all my comments are impartial like the bbc, thats why I dont call people scum

[Edited by Jye - 1/13/2004 8:17:40 PM]

imlach

Err...Jye, the tv licence has been in place since before Blair was born....I hardly think comments about him are relevant.

I am not a Blair supporter....told you this before....

imlach

btw Jye, I pay my road tax like everyone else. When I don't use my nasty polluting car (which I try to use as little as I can), I am on my bike....which doesn't wear out the roads, nor pollute the atmosphere, hence the lack of road tax on said mode of transport.

Got an issue with that?

Oh, and if I'm not on my bike, I walk....but I suppose you would want a pavement tax too?

Oh, and if I don't walk, I sometimes get the train....or even a bus!


Very flexible me.


[Edited by imlach - 1/13/2004 9:09:21 PM]

ajm

I was about to utter surprise that this thread was still at the top of the page... but then I saw who the conspirators were!

In case there was any doubt, and to exclude myself from imlach's "scum" category , I should repeat that my initial problem with the TV license was the way in which they went about trying to collect it.

imlach

ajm,
You may have a problem with how they collect it, but you didn't help by encouraging their persistence

I bet the first letter was a gentle reminder including gently detailing the penalites? Or was it it more severe? Would seem fair enough.....like any debt collection methods (leccy, gas)...nice but stern tone, followed by more severe warnings. Problem with tv licencing is that they can't deny you the service like gas or leccy as a threat....

ajm

The point was that, right from the outset, they were assuming I was evading. The first letter was entitled with words to the effect of "£1,000 Fine for Failure to Pay Council Tax" and was written in the tone that I was already guilty - and this was waiting on the door mat when I moved in!

So, being the stubborn chap that I am, I decided to run them through the mill for a while.