Solberg Limited Edition Announced
24 December 2003, 03:01 PM
#156
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Not sure that's the Solberg, think that's just the new V-limited version of the STi, will be one of the WRX too.
As for how special the 'special' edition will be, hmm, we shall wait and see. I think the only proper special edtion car is the 22B. The RB5 and it's WR counterpart were nice cars, but, the same mods could be added to a normal UK car, of course the paint and other SE bit's did make it special, but i'm talking about the oily bits, and being honest, they are the bits that really matter.
I'd be happy if the solberg was the v-limited, think the UK is being shafted by not having the same STi as the JDM one
As for how special the 'special' edition will be, hmm, we shall wait and see. I think the only proper special edtion car is the 22B. The RB5 and it's WR counterpart were nice cars, but, the same mods could be added to a normal UK car, of course the paint and other SE bit's did make it special, but i'm talking about the oily bits, and being honest, they are the bits that really matter.
I'd be happy if the solberg was the v-limited, think the UK is being shafted by not having the same STi as the JDM one
24 December 2003, 04:43 PM
#158
The V-Limited is not the Solberg, its just following the same limited edition phylospohy of all the previous JDM Limited edition specials such as my STi5 Type RA Limited.
24 December 2003, 06:22 PM
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Now now 5 Type R, that's not really cricket, copying info out of someone else's thread and posting misleading info about the car's origin while you're at it. 
Hey John, what's this with Subaru calling this JDM car a "V Limited"? Are they naming cars after Scoobynet "facts" now?
Hey John, what's this with Subaru calling this JDM car a "V Limited"? Are they naming cars after Scoobynet "facts" now?
24 December 2003, 07:36 PM
#161
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Grease...........Other thread??????????????
John.......When was the last V Limited realised? STI Version 6???
Do you think they will release this "and" a special edition all in a matter of months???
John.......When was the last V Limited realised? STI Version 6???
Do you think they will release this "and" a special edition all in a matter of months???
25 December 2003, 01:46 AM
#162
no, there is an STi9 TypeRA Spec C Limited, Iain Litchfield has sold a few of these.
It's really bizare how they have named this model, as all previous models have been called "Limited", so you have STi5 TypeRA Limited, WRX Limited, STi6 TypeR Limited and so on, but for years people in the UK have called them as "V-Limited", which has never been its name.
Now STi have decided to call this model V-Limited, which is kind of odd.
As to releasing this and a special edition, such as the Solberg, yes they will, there is plenty of history of them doing this in the past. The Japanese market always gets "Limited" editions, the UK never has and has always had a type name such as Terzo, McRae, RB5 which have been based very closely to the UK market Impreza Turbo technically.
The cars that dont follow this have been the 22B TypeUK and the P1 which at the time of release were a big step up from the UK Turbo, but they werent comemorative editions like the Solberg should be.
I think personally the Solberg will be based around the STi TypeUK PPP engine/chassis wise, i really hope it will have DCCD-A otherwise it will be a big disapointment.
It's really bizare how they have named this model, as all previous models have been called "Limited", so you have STi5 TypeRA Limited, WRX Limited, STi6 TypeR Limited and so on, but for years people in the UK have called them as "V-Limited", which has never been its name.
Now STi have decided to call this model V-Limited, which is kind of odd.
As to releasing this and a special edition, such as the Solberg, yes they will, there is plenty of history of them doing this in the past. The Japanese market always gets "Limited" editions, the UK never has and has always had a type name such as Terzo, McRae, RB5 which have been based very closely to the UK market Impreza Turbo technically.
The cars that dont follow this have been the 22B TypeUK and the P1 which at the time of release were a big step up from the UK Turbo, but they werent comemorative editions like the Solberg should be.
I think personally the Solberg will be based around the STi TypeUK PPP engine/chassis wise, i really hope it will have DCCD-A otherwise it will be a big disapointment.
25 December 2003, 09:48 AM
#164
I would buy an STi9 Spec C and get it remapped if i were to trade up. If they made the STi Type UK to a similar spec then i would be chuffed to bits though, because at last the UK buyer would be getting an Impreza that handles. My gut feeling is IM will want to charge extra for any car equipped with DCCD-A, which is taking the **** when you consider the USDM STi costs around £18,500 on the road and that is very close in config to a JDM Spec C.
There used to be an excuse that the TypeR/RA's were not a friendly car to drive in the UK with the manual DCCD (something i disagree with completely, which is why i have tried to break down the lack of knowledge the UK buyer had of those) but that excuse is well and truly blown away with the invention of the DCCD-A and its fitment to the USDM STi.
Until IM gives the UK buyer real value for money, i wont ever consider one. I think it's very poor that you have to pay an extra £2000 to get an adequate level of power, then another small fortune to get the car handling close to acceptable (a VC equiped car will never handle as well as one with DCCD-A even after all the mods). Thats not critisizing Prodrive, they do a good job, but they shouldnt have to, the car should perform as prodrive make it out of the box.
Subaru of America have a completely diferent aproach to IM and the Euro Market. They waited to hear what spec the EVO8 was going to be in the USA and then built a car to kick it's ****, hence the USDM STi. Such a shame the UK arm of Subaru doesnt have the same mentality.
There used to be an excuse that the TypeR/RA's were not a friendly car to drive in the UK with the manual DCCD (something i disagree with completely, which is why i have tried to break down the lack of knowledge the UK buyer had of those) but that excuse is well and truly blown away with the invention of the DCCD-A and its fitment to the USDM STi.
Until IM gives the UK buyer real value for money, i wont ever consider one. I think it's very poor that you have to pay an extra £2000 to get an adequate level of power, then another small fortune to get the car handling close to acceptable (a VC equiped car will never handle as well as one with DCCD-A even after all the mods). Thats not critisizing Prodrive, they do a good job, but they shouldnt have to, the car should perform as prodrive make it out of the box.
Subaru of America have a completely diferent aproach to IM and the Euro Market. They waited to hear what spec the EVO8 was going to be in the USA and then built a car to kick it's ****, hence the USDM STi. Such a shame the UK arm of Subaru doesnt have the same mentality.
26 December 2003, 09:28 PM
#165
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I have to agree with John F (If i undertsand his post correctly)
Which is
IM, will only sell to the UK market, the LEAST Spec vehicle for the MOST money possible
instead of the BEST spec vehicile to suit the Marketplace at the best price
Tony
Which is
IM, will only sell to the UK market, the LEAST Spec vehicle for the MOST money possible
instead of the BEST spec vehicile to suit the Marketplace at the best price Tony
27 December 2003, 01:08 AM
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it sounds like industrial collaboration in the political sense to me. if uk buyers were to get such a car, then it would reduce the pay-cheques of the fat 'tunning' cats as a lot less work (or even no work at all) would be required for the standard car. there could be something behind this otherwise why doesn't uk order the higher spec cars that everyone want when they it is already available?
Brodrive and Dubaru, you know I'm talking about you!
Brodrive and Dubaru, you know I'm talking about you!
27 December 2003, 06:36 AM
#167
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John/Tony/Simon
You don't know how wrong you are!!
Subaru UK work very hard to get the best spec of cars into the UK that they can but are hampered by a small problem called European Whole Vehicle Type Approval. As the UK is a small part of the market that needs such approval, it's requirements for the spec of cars we all want is clouded by what the rest of Europe wants to take. Remember that most countries sell Subarus as utility type vehicles not the 'Sports Cars' that we want. Germany hardly take any Turbo cars and the vast majority of the cars sold in places like Switzerland are Legacy and Forester 2.0.
SOA don't have a different approach to the UK, they just have a much bigger market to play with that means that it's worth approving the spec of car that they want. They sell as many WRX's in a month as we sell in a year in the UK!! There was indeed a concern that Mitsubishi were going to bring in the EVO8 (not sure how as it would be hard to get it through California Emissions regs) but America has a fixation with large engine capacity and the easy way to get decent power and still be California legal is just to increase capacity. 2.5 n/a is well established in the US anyway in all models so it makes sense that the fastest car they sell is that capacity as well.
Regards
Mike
You don't know how wrong you are!!
Subaru UK work very hard to get the best spec of cars into the UK that they can but are hampered by a small problem called European Whole Vehicle Type Approval. As the UK is a small part of the market that needs such approval, it's requirements for the spec of cars we all want is clouded by what the rest of Europe wants to take. Remember that most countries sell Subarus as utility type vehicles not the 'Sports Cars' that we want. Germany hardly take any Turbo cars and the vast majority of the cars sold in places like Switzerland are Legacy and Forester 2.0.
SOA don't have a different approach to the UK, they just have a much bigger market to play with that means that it's worth approving the spec of car that they want. They sell as many WRX's in a month as we sell in a year in the UK!! There was indeed a concern that Mitsubishi were going to bring in the EVO8 (not sure how as it would be hard to get it through California Emissions regs) but America has a fixation with large engine capacity and the easy way to get decent power and still be California legal is just to increase capacity. 2.5 n/a is well established in the US anyway in all models so it makes sense that the fastest car they sell is that capacity as well.
Regards
Mike
27 December 2003, 09:15 AM
#168
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Am I to understand, then, that there are buyers in Europe who actually prefer the lower spec of the European STI?
I can't believe it's actually any more difficult to get a DCCD-equipped car through the necessary approvals process (or is it?). Similarly I can't believe that getting a 2.5 engine through is any more difficult than a 2.0. What potential STI buyer is going to say 'no' to the higher spec machine?
I can't believe it's actually any more difficult to get a DCCD-equipped car through the necessary approvals process (or is it?). Similarly I can't believe that getting a 2.5 engine through is any more difficult than a 2.0. What potential STI buyer is going to say 'no' to the higher spec machine?
27 December 2003, 09:36 AM
#169
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God Mike you working today or are you sad enough now to log on at home!!!!
Need more power mate.
Del Boy overtook me yesterday!!!!
PS 6.30 in the morning too...................dont tell me kids huh!!!
[Edited by ARRON BIRD - 12/27/2003 9:37:09 AM]
Need more power mate.
Del Boy overtook me yesterday!!!!
PS 6.30 in the morning too...................dont tell me kids huh!!!
[Edited by ARRON BIRD - 12/27/2003 9:37:09 AM]
27 December 2003, 10:09 AM
#170
There was indeed a concern that Mitsubishi were going to bring in the EVO8 (not sure how as it would be hard to get it through California Emissions regs) but America has a fixation with large engine capacity and the easy way to get decent power and still be California legal is just to increase capacity.
There are lots of reasons why a 2.5 is less favourable in europe, mainly due to tax legislation, which is why i am not expecting the 2.5 to be in any UK/Euro spec car, it's why i didnt mention the Solberg having a 2.5 and my thinking that it will be based around the 2.0 PPP package. There is absolutely no reason why the UK/Euro spec STi cant be homologated with DCCD-A and twin scroll turbos.
With regard to Impreza sales, in 2002 Subaru sold 24,899 in Japan and 75,700 in the rest of the world of which 35,612 were sold in the USA. The main product line in the USA is the legacy, which is why they built 103,010 of them in the USA last year. Based on your logic Subaru shouldnt have bothered to homologate the STi in Japan with DCCD either. The biggest seller in Japan was the minicar range like the Pleo at 167,265 sales.
27 December 2003, 10:21 AM
#171
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I would buy an STi9 Spec C and get it remapped if i were to trade up. If they made the STi Type UK to a similar spec then i would be chuffed to bits though, because at last the UK buyer would be getting an Impreza that handles. My gut feeling is IM will want to charge extra for any car equipped with DCCD-A, which is taking the **** when you consider the USDM STi costs around £18,500 on the road and that is very close in config to a JDM Spec C.
There used to be an excuse that the TypeR/RA's were not a friendly car to drive in the UK with the manual DCCD (something i disagree with completely, which is why i have tried to break down the lack of knowledge the UK buyer had of those) but that excuse is well and truly blown away with the invention of the DCCD-A and its fitment to the USDM STi.
Until IM gives the UK buyer real value for money, i wont ever consider one. I think it's very poor that you have to pay an extra £2000 to get an adequate level of power, then another small fortune to get the car handling close to acceptable (a VC equiped car will never handle as well as one with DCCD-A even after all the mods). Thats not critisizing Prodrive, they do a good job, but they shouldnt have to, the car should perform as prodrive make it out of the box.
Subaru of America have a completely diferent aproach to IM and the Euro Market. They waited to hear what spec the EVO8 was going to be in the USA and then built a car to kick it's ****, hence the USDM STi. Such a shame the UK arm of Subaru doesnt have the same mentality.
There used to be an excuse that the TypeR/RA's were not a friendly car to drive in the UK with the manual DCCD (something i disagree with completely, which is why i have tried to break down the lack of knowledge the UK buyer had of those) but that excuse is well and truly blown away with the invention of the DCCD-A and its fitment to the USDM STi.
Until IM gives the UK buyer real value for money, i wont ever consider one. I think it's very poor that you have to pay an extra £2000 to get an adequate level of power, then another small fortune to get the car handling close to acceptable (a VC equiped car will never handle as well as one with DCCD-A even after all the mods). Thats not critisizing Prodrive, they do a good job, but they shouldnt have to, the car should perform as prodrive make it out of the box.
Subaru of America have a completely diferent aproach to IM and the Euro Market. They waited to hear what spec the EVO8 was going to be in the USA and then built a car to kick it's ****, hence the USDM STi. Such a shame the UK arm of Subaru doesnt have the same mentality.
You really seem to have a hang up with IM.
The world has up to now always worked on Supply and Demand. 2004 probably doesnt see that changing. The laws of the world also say that you cannont compare prices in the USA to the UK. IF IM were the only car importer to charge a different price in the UK than the US for sports cars, then I might eat my hat. I could start a list of cars that appear to cost less in the USA than the UK. Just check out the prices of 350Z's, Audi TT's, etc etc. Why is the USA a great place to go now, why are people filling suitcases full of kit after a trip to the USA ?
IM are a business and if any good, will charge what the market will take. The owner of IM has a little bit more money than you or I, so I would also hazard a guess that they are not doing too bad a job. Looking at company account £268m in 2002 with a healthy profit. Wouldnt mind the bosses salary cheque either.
Using Litchfield Imports as a good reference. A Spec C costs £27,995. If IM were to sell the same car, you couldnt expect them to match the price of a very small company with limited overheads. They have to develop and keep, web sites, spares, brochures, large stocks etc - Litchfields web site still thinks we are importing the original bug eyes http://www.litimports.co.uk/subaru/gx.html. A £2000 premium would be the minimum I would want if it was my business. Consumers have a choice, and if Litchfield imports offers everything you or I want, then no one will buy from IM. That however is not the case. How many Spec C's are in the country ? 20-100? As consumers we have to have an importers mark up as well as the dealers. IM could I guess sack all the Subaru dealers and run it themselves. MB tried that and lost.
The market for such a car is very limited, and IM would need to shift quite a few to make it viable, plus as Mike points out the rest of Europe needs to add to the volume. There are not many manufacturers that import less than 500 of a version.
Do you not think that IM would import a 2.5 litre car with DCCD etc etc etc if possible, and at a price that the market can stand ? It was documnented in the press that IM wanted a Legacy Turbo, but the rest of Europe didnt, so we are stuck with a NA version.
IM are not perfect, but then no company is. But you are excercising your choice as a consumer not to buy from them, which is fine.
People on this BBS also critise IM for making dealers sell old Legacy's to get extra Solbergs. I run sales for a distribution company, and IM's tactics are hardly the thing that will make the Harvard Business Review.
Jonathan
[Edited by Chins - 12/27/2003 10:23:58 AM]
27 December 2003, 10:57 AM
#172
we used to have the same argument against having any STi version at all in the UK chins, but when the consumer voted with their wallets they had no choice but to introduce the STi. In that i am not refering to Japanese imports, i am refering to the competition from Mitsubishi, BMW etc. The Normal Impreza Turbo wasnt good enough as a flagship performance product and each year it was becoming more obvious.
I dont have a downer on IM as you sugest, i have a downer on the fact that the UK buyer is getting an inferior product. The SOA aproach is very agresive and the Euro market could do with some of that spirit. IM and Subaru need to wake up before they lose a big market share to their competition. The EVO is a much better car than a UK Spec STi, every review shows this to be the case, it's only the DCCD-A equiped cars that are doing anything positive in terms of press right now and long term, thats going to kill Impreza sales.
people are far more educated now about the choices they have, the internet has changed things is a massive way over the last 5 years, having an inferior product isnt good enough anymore.
I dont have a downer on IM as you sugest, i have a downer on the fact that the UK buyer is getting an inferior product. The SOA aproach is very agresive and the Euro market could do with some of that spirit. IM and Subaru need to wake up before they lose a big market share to their competition. The EVO is a much better car than a UK Spec STi, every review shows this to be the case, it's only the DCCD-A equiped cars that are doing anything positive in terms of press right now and long term, thats going to kill Impreza sales.
people are far more educated now about the choices they have, the internet has changed things is a massive way over the last 5 years, having an inferior product isnt good enough anymore.
27 December 2003, 11:11 AM
#173
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The EVO is a much better car than a UK Spec STi, every review shows this to be the case, it's only the DCCD-A equiped cars that are doing anything positive in terms of press right now and long term, thats going to kill Impreza sales
I personally have test driven an EVO on a few occasions. I have yet to feel the credit card trying to get out of my wallet. I cant see the fuss with the EVO. Had a go in an FQ version and wondered why anyone would spend the extra on one. If any importer is ripping of the public, then Colt are. Why pay the extra ?
I am still amazed that anyone would buy a car for £27k, that has an interior from 1970. My Grandads Maxi had more sex appeal. I also like to travel at least 30 miles between fill ups and dont want to know my service managers first name.
But we are all different and at least we have a choice.
The other thing I would look at is had products evolve. If IM sold us a 2.5, DCCD, with PPP, 18" OZ wheels, bose stereo, 20,000 miles between service and 40mpg NOW, what would you buy next year.
In IM's position, I would probably add DCCD this year, twin scroll next and then hopefully a 2.5. Most manufacturers do not deliver the ultimate spec early in a cars life. Maybe SOA didnt have the ***** that IM have and were overly concerned about the inferior EVO8, and over reacted ? Where to now for them ?
Jonathan
[Edited by Chins - 12/27/2003 11:27:04 AM]
27 December 2003, 11:37 AM
#174
I guess you and I will have to disagree on this. You could say where to next on the Japanese spec STi's? yet that isnt a concern for Subaru Japan. Products evolve all the time, there will always be a next version, it's nature of the beast. It's not that long until we will have a new shape Impreza in the UK again, sooner than most people think IMHO.
Whats wrong is holding back the good spec from one market when it's for sale elsewhere and then charging you for the priviledge. If you are happy with that then you have a diferent mindset to me.
Whats wrong is holding back the good spec from one market when it's for sale elsewhere and then charging you for the priviledge. If you are happy with that then you have a diferent mindset to me.
27 December 2003, 11:45 AM
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I want one of those things on the other post!!!
V-Limited thing.
But it will have to wait till March 2005 when my warranty runs out as I`m more than happy with my old bus at the moment.
The DCCD will have to wait and I will have to make it do the things that DCCD does without out it
By then there will be another version out anyway.
I will probably buy an import next as I think that engine remapping and exhausts are far better these days and less engines are going pop which is really the only reason the buy with a warranty.
as I drive like an old man
V-Limited thing.
But it will have to wait till March 2005 when my warranty runs out as I`m more than happy with my old bus at the moment.
The DCCD will have to wait and I will have to make it do the things that DCCD does without out it
By then there will be another version out anyway.
I will probably buy an import next as I think that engine remapping and exhausts are far better these days and less engines are going pop which is really the only reason the buy with a warranty.
as I drive like an old man
27 December 2003, 11:47 AM
#176
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I personally wouldnt pay close to 30k on a UK car again as I did with the P1.
My money would go on a Jap spec car with exhaust and re-map with Litcho for les money than a pretty standard Uk car.
My money would go on a Jap spec car with exhaust and re-map with Litcho for les money than a pretty standard Uk car.
27 December 2003, 02:57 PM
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I personally wouldnt pay close to 30k on a UK car again as I did with the P1.
Happy new year all...... wish me happy birthday - 57 today
Phil
