Nick

Blackie

You've got a lot of advice on this page!

When I suggested query calibration etc, I feel this is your best option. You do not do this in court though. You do the query after you get the NIP. This will detail which police station you write to.
When you write, you ask for calibration details, including I suggest, the +/- % accuracy. They police can't say that it's 100% accirate, so what is it? 98%??? 98% would give you a 98.98mph figure! Much better to go to court with that, than 101mph. If the police know they've made a mistake (I have experience of this) they will then send you a fixed penalty instead. If they have a strong case, they'll hold their ground.

I drove past Cullompton yesterday on a visit to Zymol. I watched the bridges VERY carefully!

Lou

Blackie

We are all guilty of speeding at sometime or other. The risks of doing it are that if we are caught then we have to face the consequences. 101mph !! Just bite the bullet, take your medicine and grovel!

pat

Morray,

point about high winds taken :-) Just brought it up because it could affect doppler speed measurement. But as already mentioned, the police have already stated that the car was being driven safely; they can't very well turn round and say it was dangerous to drive at such speed on a windy day *now*.....

The NIP does *NOT* have to be delivered within 14 days in this case. The police have already informed the driver of their intent to prosecute; this gives them 3 months to setup a court date etc. If they had not made that intention clear at the scene, they would indeed have had only 14 day to deliver the NIP.

On the whole, if you are going to fight, make sure you have a sound, undisputable case that casts doubt over the actual measurement or the manner in which it was taken. Remember, all you need is reasonable doubt; well, that's the theory anyway :-)

Cheers,

Pat.

darren f

blackie,
How about signing up for a safe driving training course in the mean time? (Have you done Dick Grimes' SIDC course at Essex Police?).

Might be a bit of a long shot but going to court and telling the magistrate that "I've seen the error of my ways (grovel, grovel) and I've done this to make me a safer driver", might, just might, have some bearing on the punishment dished out.

MorayMackenzie

pat,

If he claims it was windy, and the police noted that it was not windy, he will be deemed as lying to the court, irespective of how safely they judged him to be driving!

Moray

Nick

Blackie has a problem with BBS access. Normal service will be resumed soon.

DAZ 4

Guys,

This is Blackie here (can't post at the moment under blackie as I changed my profile and put the wrong e-mail address !)

I think the saying is "it never rains it pours !!"

Anyway :

Nick, thanks for the last, I'm back !!

I've been reading all your advice and have not been ignoring you all / locked up !!

I have been considering darren f's suggestion and I think that if it takes a few weeks/months to get to court I may be able to get an advanced/safer driving course. In particular the one he mentions, as I'm based in Essex. Does anyone have details and is it affiliated with the SIDC ??

I think Pat's right about the NIP as the Police officers stated that they gave a verbal NIP at the time.

I will wait until the summons come through and contact the Police for a callibration certificate covering the particular day.

Once again thanks to all of you and if you think of anything else post here!!

DAZ 4 (formely Blackie !!)

ellise

OK SO THATS ME TOLD!
to be honest i never really thought of it as a crime.i've had several insurance claims and have never had to show my licence.
i'm sure i am very far from alone(i know this does not put it right)how many of you have small mods and back boxes,even wheel changes and have not informed their insurance?
i will rectify the situation cos you have made me realise.
still,i've enjoyed my time with you.
see ya

moron
ps i don't see anybody calling blackie a moron for driving at 101mph.don't you all realise he too was breaking the law.

[This message has been edited by ellise (edited 03-01-2000).]
the above is not aimed at you blackie i was just making a point

[This message has been edited by ellise (edited 03-01-2000).]

DAZ 4

Ellise,

I think that this just shows what lengths some people will got to,to enjoy these cars (including speeding).

I will have the same problem as yourself in the near future and do not know how it will effect my insurance premium, but if you can spend a large amount of money on one of these cars you should have enough to pay to insure it.

I have owned a Scooby for over 3 years (Im on my second one) and have over that time noticed the premiums going up. This is with myself getting older (28) and a clean license (up until now !!) and no accidents in my 11 years of driving.

I think your honesty (to us) has backfired, and you should do all you can to rectify it.

Good luck !!

Blackie.

ellise

yes i know its me again.
i've just checked my insurance and noticed that i had to send a copy of my driving licence with my proposal so all is above board.
i'm still a moron because i thought i was withholding the truth.

chrisp

Its surprising how many people dont realise that as soon as they receive points they are suppose to inform their insurance company. Also if they stay with the same insurance company then they just get a renewal notice and asked to pay it without the need to ring the insurance company. Its not until they ring around for quotes and are asked whether thay have points that people declare them. Its easier to tell them everything even if they dont understand what a quickshift gearbox is and a rear sport silencer as long as it listed on the policy .

cheers

chrisp

sunilp

All the renewal notices i ever had from my insurance company always said something along the lines of...."please check that all your details are correct and also imform us of any change in your circumstances, eg pending prosecutions etc which may affect our assesment of risk". It also says words to the effcet of "if you are unsure as to whether any circumstance does affect your insurance or not then you should notify us anyway"

Now if that isnt plain English then what is?

It seems like people want to disclose mods so 1) They get paid out if the car gets knicked or 2) They get paid out if the car is damaged.
Surely, they should also remember the naughty things like points because they too will invalidate your insurance....convenient how people forget them though isnt it!

pat

Morray,

Fair point about the prevailing conditions. I didn't mean to imply that some ficticious reason should be given. From what I recall, it really *WAS* windy and that might have been useful for casting doubt on the accuracy of the measurement, nothing more.

Sunil,

If you declare mods to your car then yes, you will retain your cover, BUT in the even of a claim they won't necessarily shell out for the cost of a replacement vehicle and the cost of the extra equipment.

You can of course raise the insured sum, but you're not guranteed to get the full amount. You should be insured for the cost of a replacement vehicle of similar age and specification... as it may be impossible to find such an example, an assessor may have to figure out what the car was worth, and that will always be less than the cost of building a replacement :-(

You should declare mods, you will probably get charged for them and they may not replace them if they break / get stolen. Is that fair? No. Is it any wonder that many people DON'T declare them? No. But if you don't declare them you're driving uninsured. Ho hum. You just can't win :-( If the insurance companies would play fair, then I guess more "customers" would too.

Cheers,

Pat.

DavidG

FYI, I recently added a Magnex backbox and K&N air filter. I notified Admiral of this. The premium didn't change but they stated that in the event of a claim they will only pay to replace the original parts.

David

JamesH

Blackie,

I got stopped for 104 on M4 (driving safely but fast - noted) & received 3 points. Pleaded but mitigated myself. At that time my driving licence looked pretty *rap with a previous ban (120) & another 3 pts in fresh ink. Its not an automatic ban over the ton, but guidelines give that advice. I also know of people getting banned for under 100 on a M'way - but good luck.

ellise

I see that you have realised the error of your ways (I am sure that you will have rung and informed them as well as just assuming they have read your photocopy) but for those others out there who may be tempted, failure to declare points is also a Criminal Offence - Fraud (obtaining pecunary advantage (cheaper insurance) by deception) - and could result in a criminal conviction. That's in addition to any grief you may get over an accident & payouts. Also insurance companies don't like potential clients with an IN10 (no insurance) on their licence.

DAZ 4

JamesH,

What do you mean by "Pleaded but mitigated myself" ?

I take it you had to appear in court ?

This sounds interesting !!

Blackie

JamesH

Blackie (?)

I think I may have needed to put some punctuation in there

I pleaded guilty but couldn't (at the time) afford representation. Therefore worked on the line that like you, it was a brief excess of speed to overtake a dodgy customer (backed up by Plod). I also needed my licence for work but baring in mind my previous scant regard for the law in this respect, I did't push it!

I was lucky as I was looking at (for a second offence inside 5 yrs) a minimum 6 mth ban. Its a bit of a lottery but all you can do is give it your best shot.

marc861

Blackie,
It won't help much, but I got 'lasered' on the A30 in Devon (which is a 70mph limit like the M5)doing 95MPH and received 4 kisses on my licence and a £220 fine plus £35 costs! I did'nt go to court but I did send a grovelling letter to the magistrate which did me no good at all.

Alan McCaskie

On the subject of mods and informing your insurer - I have also found Admiral reasonable when adding such things as upgraded exhaust and induction - like DavidG they are OK on basis that if nicked or damaged they will only pay cost of manufacturer orginal parts - in all likelihood the original Subaru bits are probably more expensive!. Don't know how reasonable they are when you have PPP or car has been to Power Engineering - would be interested in anyone's findings.

Alan

darren f

blackie,
re: SIDC Driving Course with Essex Police- write to Dick Grimes c/o SIDC at 14 Cedar Walk, Canewdon, Essex, SS4 3QL and ask for a place on the next course (I dont know what the current availability is). It's free of charge and only costs you two Saturday mornings of your time.

Must be worth a try?

(Disclaimer: The writer acknowledges other driving courses are available etc etc...)

johnfelstead

ellise, good to see you understand why driving uninsured is not acceptable.

I have driven highly moded road cars for years and have allways declared the mods in detail in writing. You have to cover yourself from the insurance companies saying you gave false info.

The mods to my last car trippled the premium, but thats a price you have to be prepaired to pay to stay legal.

Always budget for insurance increases as part of you upgrade costs and speak to the insurance company BEFORE you carry out the changes.

Nightmare

Whilst Ellise was wrong, I think this BBS can be a little 'judge jury and executioner' sometimes - just look at the 'Anders/Power enginerring' post......

Blackie..

I went to court 2 years ago for 82mph in a 40 (thursday), and then 71mph in exactly the same place on the Friday. Before someone tells me Im a complete cretin (I am) the piece of road is a dual carriageway in Hertford, in the middle of the countryside, there was no traffic, it was light, and dry, and for god knows what reason only derestricted halfway along its length. Anyone who lives in the Hertford area will know exactly where I mean Im sure.... Oh, and it was a hidden 'camera in side of road' - ie no cops.

I went to court - pleaded guilty, apologised massively, said I had no real excuse, also said I would lose my job if I lost my license (possibly stratching the truth slightly)

I got 12 points, no ban, and 500 quid fine. Bloody ouch - but lose points in a year, and have no ban to tell insurance company, which considering my cars is a very, very good thing. Interestingly, the points havent made nearly as big a difference to my insurance as I expected....mods, accidents and bans are far worse.

I would definitely say you were sorry, you knew you were braking the law but was trying to overtake in the shortest and safest possible time. You've obviously never been done before, which really helps. If the weather and conditions were good you could mention that you werent taking stupid risks in bad conditions.

I think the 'arguing the toss' over the speed wont necessarily help cos they can ban you for *any* braking of the speed limit if they feel like it (and yes you could appeal etc...but stilll....) The magistrates were not actually allowed to NOT ban me (double the speed limit)- but chose to anyway. Just hope you have understanding magistrates.

cheers
Night

DAZ 4

Thanks for that Nightmare, I live in hope !!

Blackie

Nick C

I was caught doing 104mph on the M5 about 7/8 years ago and did need my licence for work. My boss sent a letter from the company to support me and the company had cover with the AA who supplied a solicitor free of charge to help my case in court. I did however have circumstances that undoubtedly nobody else would be able to match that did get me a big sympathy vote (100% true).
My penalty was £120 fine and a ten day ban. The recommended ban at the time which I was expecting was 4-6 weeks.
Things have probably changed a little these days but my understanding would be that a ban is almost certain because it was over 100mph with a fine. Unless your name is Alex Ferguson or David Beckham I'm afraid you've had it.

Nightmare

im intrigued...what was your circumstance?

MorayMackenzie

Nightmare,

I am also intrigued! Your photographic antics... Was the camera operating without a flash? Was it the same camera on both occasions? Do you have a radar detector nowadays?

ChrisP,

You have me stumped too, what exactly is a Quickshift Gearbox?

Moray
( )

Nightmare

a gearbox you can change very quickly ??

It wasnt using a flash, I never saw the pics, and never asked for them - which in retrospect was somewhat stupid. Saying that, I decided that antagonising anyone wasnt going to do me any good at all.....

dont have a radar detector still - but only cos I havent yet read anything that definitely makes one worth buying - thought the recent Evo article was good..... friend of mine also with diablo has 4 stacked on top of each other!!

GavM

Blackie,

They caught my girlfriend speeding with laser at the same place on M5. She managed to do 99mph with 4 people in a 106!! She only got 3 points and a £40 fine.
Dont see how it would be fair to be much harder on you for 2mph. Or maybe you just did not chat up the officer enough
My radar detector works a treat there as it has gone off two times for laser between junc. 25 and 28- be warned they are now finding a few new places to hide (but were back on bridge this morning).

Good luck,

Gav

Ps. Get a solicitor to go to court as mine got me off scot free for well over 100 (when i was young and stupid!!).

GaryC

Friend of mine was in simialr situation a year ago. Clean License, 27 at the time, in his M3 (no accounting for taste)

He got £80 fine, and a 3 week ban. No real hardship!

'Rules' as to speeding as per motorway police ex-neighbour - Automatic 3 points up to 25mph over speed limit, court appearence over 25mph above speed limit. Hence 95mph+ on M'Way - if declared as over 95 by arresting officer- will go to court and usually get a ban. Length of ban mainly dependant on previous convictions, Level of fine dependant on personal circumstances

Good Luck

[This message has been edited by GaryC (edited 05-01-2000).]

MorayMackenzie

I was under the impression that officers have the discressionary powers to offer a fixed penalty for anything up to 30mph over the motorway speed limit.

Maybe I was lucky, or the rules have changed recently as I used to have (_past tense_) a 3point/£40 fixed penalty on my license for 100mph on the M4.

Moray