TelBoy

Milo, possibly true for 80kg guys. But even then 160kg is a hell of a squat. For me, it would mean in excess of 220kg, and i can only just pick that up off the ground, let alone squat it!!

STi wanna Subaru

iTrader: (1)

milo, where do you get your information from regarding the squat technique and how safe it is to go so low?

medders

Gulp - I'm 120 kg

STi wanna Subaru

iTrader: (1)

I hope my post doesn't come across as 'ar5ey'. I'm just interested in making sure any advice I take is based on sound medical / sports science.

I've just started doing squats after reading about them in the last thread. I'm in a similar position to Saxo boy 6"1' and just under 13 stone. I can do 2 sets of 10 reps with 30Kg either side. Should I be looking to reduce the reps and up the weight? It's amazing how much they work your body!

milo

im really going to have to disagree there with regards to the amount of weights.

i dont think a double-bodyweight squat is difficult (given proper training over a period of time, nutrition and rest) even if you weight over 100kg (which i do also - at 6'+ and long limbs, making squatting more difficult for me).

milo

ok, so i'll assume you're using an olympic bar (weight: 20kg).. with 30kg each side.. thats 80kg total for 10 reps. i hope you're doing full range of motion tho and are squatting free weights.

as far as "should i reduce the reps" goes.. it depends on your goals. if you're looking for strength, you should be looking at 1-3 reps. if you're looking for hypertrophy, 6-12 reps would be ok.

for a balance you could pyramid (start with high reps and increase the weight with each set as you do less reps).

what's the rest of your leg training day like? are you only doing two sets of squats and that's it?

milo

do a search on google.. something like "how low should you go on squats". there will be a ton of info about this.

TelBoy

milo, you must train with some HUGE blokes then. In my opinion, seeing a true 200kg squat is worthy of stopping and watching; it is NOT that common, and definitely not not difficult (if that makes sense).

milo

which squats can achieve better than anything else as you're incorporating more muscles.

fair enough if you choose not to do them, but realise you're missing out. take a look at information and research about it out on the net... see what you're missing out on.

milo

you don't have to be huge to do this. i am, because i chose to be big and lifted/dieted accordingly. plenty of smaller guys can lift more than me tho, im sure... im humble. size isn't everything to do with it.

take a look at some powerlifting competitions. 100kg guys are squatting high-300s. 60-70kg guys can squat 200kg that's "impressive".

a 100kg guy squatting 200kg is, in my opinion, good. but not impressive.

the world record squat is 500kg. that's something special.

STi wanna Subaru

iTrader: (1)

The bar does weigh 20 Kg. My motion takes my legs to just below parallel to the floor which for me is about as far as I'm comfortable in going.
My goals are 1) Increased strength for improved performance at football. 2) To improve my physical appearance.

I have been using the pyramid method (4 sets finishing at my maximum) to build up to 80Kg but since have decided the best method is to try and lift my maximum all the time as initially I want to get more strength.

I have only really started training my legs because previously I thought it was not really necessary due to playing football on a Saturday, 5 a side on a Tuesday and football training on a Wednesday. I still do this and this is one dilemma I have. When I first started doing squats my legs were in pieces for 2 days. This is now not as bad, I can still tell I've done them but I'm not walking like John Wayne or climbing steps by pulling myself up the banister.

I am going to the gym Monday, Thursday and Friday. Not ideal but it's the only times I can. I have been doing the squats on the Monday and Thursday after I've worked my upper body. The only other leg exercises I do then are for the calf muscles.
I can accept not being at my best for football training and 5 a side but if the squats are going to affect my football 2 days later I may have to reconsider. So far though I feel a lot better for doing them.

TelBoy

I've just got lower standards then! For an "ordinary" bloke who's relatively serious about his weights, rather than an out and out power-lifter, i'm still saying 200kgs is impressive! Nerr!

TelBoy

Who's gonna mention all the re-seating of trousers you have to have done once your thighs get to a size such that they rub together at the top!!

STi wanna Subaru

iTrader: (1)

Interesting reading

milo

consider yourself lucky that you can find trousers that fit around your thighs in the first place!

milo

STi wanna Subaru,

look into a 5x5 program with progressive resistance each week.

regarding your program, if you can squat with your "max" twice a week, then that's not your max! you should be able to go heavier. if i were you, with 3 days, id do a split like this:

mon - back, biceps
thurs - legs
fri - chest, shoulders, triceps

it's a fairly standard intermediate program (although most do it over mon/wed/fri for a 2 day rest each time).

if you want more detail on exercises, sets, reps etc let me know.

TurboKitty

So let me get this straight, milo, you'd encourage me to incorporate squatting in my gym programme?!

Everyone in the office thinks I've lost my marbles as I am giggling uncontrollably at the thought!

Seriously, I don't think I could be arsed to learn the technique and worry about spotters and stuff. The risk of me dropping the bar on myself is entirely real, which is the reason I don't do much in the way of free weights. And quite apart from anything else, it's quite clear from reading these threads that this hurts!

I'll be sticking to the resistance machines and my nice, safe, girlie programme, (OK, so leg pressing 150kg+ routinely isn't all *that* girlie compared to the rest of the women at my gym, but still...). Tel, given that I am a fitness bunny and not interested in strength, or bulk, you'd agree with this, no?

TelBoy

TK, squats would lose more women more weight than any other exercise, if women were prepared to do them. They almost wouldn't have to do any other exercise if they squatted regularly and properly. But as you mentioned yourself, they have a stigma of being a "bloke's" exercise.

Yes, they take time to learn properly, and yes, weak knees are not uncommon. And yes, they look "odd" and sniggeringly sexual. But that's denying yourself the most powerful metabolic catalyst there is.

I taught a girl to squat some years ago. She started from scratch, but within six months was squatting 50 and 60kgs. And she had legs to die for.

The mistake SO many women make is that lots of weight will somehow make them into Arnold Schwarzenneggers. It's just not true. It's hard enough for blokes to do it!! If a toned body isn't a goal, then weights aren't the thing to use, but the majority of women i believe want some sort of firmness to their bodies, not just a smaller squishy one. Squats will do that, to the muscle groups listed at least.

milo

you're asking if i would encourage you to incorporate one of the best most proven exercises into your program?

of course i would

free weights not only incorporate stabiliser muscles which resistance machines DO NOT, they also encourage balance, AND (very importantly) allow your body to move thru it's OWN plane, which is far less dangerous.

the risk of anyone dropping a bar is real. but with the right precautions (e.g. a power rack), you'll be fine.

TurboKitty

Hmmm....

Squatting would require that I use the bodybuilder's gym rather than the fitness gym... It's scary in there!

milo

bah, it's not too scary - apparently it's rare to find someone squatting twice their bodyweight, so i wouldn't worry

seriously tho - it's worth it. the advice from tel above on why you should be doing squats is superb.

TelBoy

LOL, it bloody IS rare!!

Seeing blokes SQUAT is rare, full stop!! Chest and arms all day long though!

Maybe it's an Essex thing!!

TurboKitty

Yes, tone is my goal, as I said earlier, and I do weights, quite a lot of weights. I have a separate upper and lower body programme, which I alternate, so my muscles get enough rest, even if I choose to train every day, (which I haven't for a few months, admittedly). I think squatting might just be taking it a bit far though. Sod what it looks like though, I'm not fussed about that at all. Let's face it, adductor and abductor machines ain't exactly elegant, and I look ridiculous using the pec deck too ('cos if I don't sit very tall, I get my ***** trapped in it!)

Mind you, the claim that it would be almost enough in itself is nearly enough to make me take it up as a challenge, to test the theory.

TurboKitty

I'd also almost certainly have problems with my knees, which are dodgy enough as it is.

milo

sadly it's a UK thing

it's rare enough to find a gym that caters for free-weight squats let alone people prepared to do them. maybe people are lazy - squats are difficult after all.

if you're using truly "heavy" weights that is

TurboKitty

I'd be lucky to be squatting 1x my current bodyweight within a year!

CC

i get the most out of squats by going no lower than parallel, so that my upper thighs are at roughly 90 degrees to my calves...

very slow on the way down so i have little momentum at the bottom and then give it loads on the way up (but still controlled), also contract my thighs at the top if i'm not too fooked!

shoulder width stance or maybe an inch ot two wider than shoulder width but certainly no wider.

i've tried different methods but this just feels 'right' to me .

btw i consider myself a bodybuilder, not a powerlifter, but i enjoy training hard n heavy.

STi wanna Subaru

iTrader: (1)

si, why not use something to pad the bar It's not big or clever to damage yourself.

TurboKitty

STi wanna Subaru, si doesn't think he's trying hard enough if he doesn't have a new injury every week...

Warwick-hunt

Turbo Kitty, don't bother with squats if you don't fancy them, the reason why you don't see many people do them, is that, not enough people do them correctly, its far easier and safer to train your legs on the leg press, i know in my gym everyones tried squats but in the end they mostly go on the leg press because they weren't making the gains on the squats,
i agree they are the best exercise for quads but if you can't do them correctly or feel comfortable doing them, don't do them at all.