Deep Singh

Agree with Pete. People have actually tested these devices and shown the engine to run between 5 and 20 % leaner than they should. You may get away with it for ages and the car will feel faster as its running leaner but one day you might pay the ultimate price. A JDM STi7 with a decat and a filter and no remap is a disaster waiting to happen. Companies who promote this as a method of tuning do not understand basic concepts and just want to move boxes. (IMHO!)

tizard99

An interesting topic. I know and respect Pete alot, but then you speak to other respected and recommended tuners and they say do this and do that and they have hundreds of happy customers and..., I've had this argument with the other tuners (I was enquiring about a remap/ECU change) and I was told I should go with a cone filter to get the full benefits; so now its who do you believe when one Top tuner says one thing and another says something else.

My spec at the mo. is full decat and cone filter and getting ready for a link or other chip (but it must be a proper remap, not a bolt on) the problem I have is it over boosts then backs off to just over what it used to boost too. Now to me this seems like the ecu is correcting the fueling and boost pressure to within its safety limits, so the engine should be ok, as for the particles getting through to the sensor and turbines I will do a bit of investigating myself as I work in the automotive business and have friends who can check things like this for me.

Can we have a quick straw poll

What filter is fitted?:
How long for?:
Worth any gains?:
Any engine problems?:

T

tizard99

Just had a word with a powertrain engineer who works in this area and he says 200 microns is very small but yes you may get pitting over time, a long time; as for running lean, shouldn't be happening as the diameter of my MAF sensor tube has not changed, but im getting an Eco-sensor fitted to take some lamda measurements next week. so will have conclusive info. soon.

I'll report back when I know anything.

Edited to add that I have an original shape 1996 Scooby, not an new shape STi 7 or 8, so many of us including myself may be getting a bit confused, as this is only applicable to the new shape scoobs im reliably informed. Will still do the tests as still intriged.

T


[Edited by tizard99 - 18/07/2003 13:50:11]

WRX_BLUES

Nice one Tizard99! Look forward to seeing some results.

CTRnutter

Mr sinister, did Rob/Andy/Mark tell you about the other STI they've got over with Guy.

as if you have had problems I'd be a bit miffed with them as these are the exact same mods my bro is having done to his STI8 PPP.

so they are still selling same setup when they know you have had problems

did you also have problems with the Downpipe being to short ???

also how long have you had to wait to get this done as the car is now having to stay for a second week,

the mods are:

HKS Downpipe
HKS De-Cat with Lambda Sensor
HKS VTA BOV
DO-Luck IC Spray
HKS Boost Guage
HKS Racing Suction Kit (with HKS airflow Monitor)

Already on the car,

PPP ECU
PPP Fuel Pump
PPP Back Box,

And in the next couple of months,

Autronics ECU
Oil Catch Tank
Knocklink
& maybe SECS not to sure though
wastegate

[Edited by CTRnutter - 19/07/2003 10:09:12]

[Edited by CTRnutter - 19/07/2003 10:10:51]

Cupraman

Thats exactly what I want done to mine, Expect the Blow Off Valve and Boost gauge.

Amorphia

Unless u have the ECU replace (ala MoTeC) and then its not a problem, but will cost though

andypugh2000

is this just on imports or on uk cars as well? just fitted a K&N induction kit and all seems to be well so far on my MY98 uk turbo

Pete Croney

WRX Blues

If the pipe on your filter tube is the same size, I doubt it will cause a problem. The ones I have looked at are 80mm diameter, instead of 76mm, which is 11% larger.

Cupraman

So does that apply to an STi8?

WRX_BLUES

Cupraman,

Mine is a STI8.

Pete,

Thanks for your time!

TVR Gary

STI8 with Trust induction kit here. Havent a clue if it has increased power etc as I havent been on the RR before and after.

Just hope it isnt killing my car

James_Harvey

I had a Blitz Sonic Power on my 7 for a while. Pete gave me the same advice, so I took it off an measured it. The diameter of the Blitz MAF chamber is 70mm and the one on the stock airbox is 66mm some 11% smaller. Needless to say the stock airbox is now back on.

Note that this is only a problem on Bug eyes and above where the MAF housing is moulded into the airbox. On the classics, you unbolt the MAF housing from the airbox and attach the cone to the front of the MAF housing, so no problem (vibration and contamination aside).

On the mapping front, I understand that while you can scale the map for open loop fuel, on closed loop, the car will still run lean. Is that correct?

James.

vulnax999

iTrader: (7)

errr...

Doesn't it use the Lamba sensor under 3000 rpm, and the ECU maps over 3000 rpm ... or is it the other way around? Those refer to open and closed fuel loops

vulnax999

iTrader: (7)

Also, the stainless steel filters cause particle damage to the MAF and more, the other type of cone filters cause vibration damage to the MAF ... and some oiled ones deposit oil on the MAF thin film or hot wire ( depending on year ) which throws it out / damages it

All this varies by model year, filter type and fitment etc.

CTRnutter

Cars back and with all the above mods fitted apart from the autronics, which will come later the car is running like a dream, much better torque through the rev range and some how it feels very intense and quick, and guess what the reliability is fine not a problem staying at 1.1 - 1.2 bar and no fuel cuts and no knocking, if anything its as if the these mods were meant to be on the car from the start. and all of this with the PPP ECU in place.

thanks to GUY who fitted all the kit !!

Cupraman

Where did you get it all done CTR?

john banks

CTR nutter, have you demonstrated that:

- there is increased power and torque objectively?
- a wideband lambda sensor confirms you are not lean?
- the car has been held (ie on the brakes or dyno) at full load and boost at various points across the rev range with knock monitoring (not just an ECU readout of knock correction - ie det cans or knocklink)?

If not then the reliability experiment is you driving your car around to see whether there is engine damage.

It may well be fine, but without this data then I would not presume.

CTRnutter

just a quick note though the IC spray system did not go on the car !! as this was for pre sti 8 models.

all work was carried out by Guy through Sumo Power,

as for doubts all will be more apparent when the autronics goes in and we will take the car up to G-Force and have tests run on the engine

[Edited by CTRnutter - 7/28/2003 10:23:53 AM]

john banks

Yeah, my only doubt/worry is the period until you get the new ECU in driving it around on the OEM one if the above has not been checked.

CTRnutter

I'm being a little naive i suppose but I know a few of the evo guys who have had the mods done and have run there cars for 4 years without a problem, I know they aren't scoobs but the philosophy is the same.

the car will be ok i think the boost isn't spiking and that was the main worry, the new engine in the sti-8 is supposed to be bullet proof up to 350 bhp and is very versatile, to most tuners opinions, but time will tell if it goes bang it goes bang but i'm not to sure it will

its not the OEM ECU its Prodives replacement,

the car has the PPP pack fitted and all other parts have been fitted in conjunction, so it has the fuel pump and backbox still in place but the cat has been removed, and all the other bits have been fitted

[Edited by CTRnutter - 7/28/2003 12:24:56 PM]

john banks

All very nice, but engines have failed in 10 miles after some induction kits have been fitted. I hope it works out for you, most get away with it, but you NEED to know it is not detting. The STi 8 engine like any other WILL be damaged with detonation like any other engine.

I don't know what else I can say to convince you, probably interfered too much already.

Pete Croney

CTRNutter

If you are running that spec with the PPP ecu fitted, I would be very careful. The PPP map will not be fuelled for the mods you have made.

I would drive like Miss Daisy until your Autronics is fitted.

Incidentally, why are you going for Autronics ad not EcuTek? Just curious.

CTRnutter

gone through all this with tuners and we have all come to the conclusion the autronics is a better option to go for than the original thought of the Motec M800, this is purely because the autronics is made by the chief designer of motec who decided to go it alone, and we are talking about a 1000 for a replacement ECU with rally heritage and ALS and all the goodies you can imagine for a lot less money, also this car is going to have quite a bit done over a period of time,

the current setup is fine, I beleive you guys have vast knowledge of your cars but I will always take advice of the tuners who must know wht they are talking about, so i put full faith in the guys at Sumo Power and Guy, I also now of plenty of guys with this setup the proof is in running of the car, if it keeps going it will keep going, it could go bang !!! sure but i think the odds are stacked against that

this car is completely diffrent from what anyone else has done, I'm sure we could all pick holes in everybody's tuning methods but a little bit of support and happiness in my choice of mods should'nt go a miss