Strange performance from STi7
04 February 2003, 04:16 PM
#31
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Kent
Posts: 660
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dealer has done it's tests and come back with nothing They have sent my rolling road graph off to SUK. Very unhappy, as I was hoping that it'll just be "Oh, it was the **** and we've replaced it!"
04 February 2003, 04:32 PM
#32
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: MY99UK-MY02STi-MY99Type R-MY06 T20-MY11 340R-MY05 TYPE25
Posts: 11,468
Received 22 Likes
on
19 Posts
We (3 STi7PPP'ers) were of the PE to have a full rolling road Test done 
but due to a slight hicup, we had to cancel ;(
But I am going to get either a delta dash or AP-22 to do some checks on my cars performance. I heard they are quite accurate. I think Prodrive used a simular system on their Laptop whilst testing mine
The worrying thing is if ALL came up light on Power on R/R's but did it
on the road I would't be concerned it's when some make 305+ bhp and some only make 280 ish.
Tony
but due to a slight hicup, we had to cancel ;( But I am going to get either a delta dash or AP-22 to do some checks on my cars performance. I heard they are quite accurate. I think Prodrive used a simular system on their Laptop whilst testing mine
The worrying thing is if ALL came up light on Power on R/R's but did it
on the road I would't be concerned it's when some make 305+ bhp and some only make 280 ish.Tony
04 February 2003, 05:30 PM
#33
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Kent
Posts: 660
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Guys,I've just got of the phone from my garage, who in turn have spoken to SUK and they are blaming the fuel. What they have asked me to do is to run my car on a few tanks of Optimax and then take it back for some more tests. Then, a guy from SUK can plug in his laptop and they have a benchmark to go against.
I find this very hard to accept, as I always use Super.
What i'm going to do is book up another run at SAS for 2+ weeks time and run on Optimax until then. If I get the same results then i'm going to charge SUK the £65 odd for the rr. If it does prove that it has fixed the problem, then I don't know what i'll do. I find it very hard to accept that Shell is the only fuel that we can run on!!!
Lastly, Ago, what fuel were you running last Sat?
cheers all
Gareth
04 February 2003, 05:44 PM
#34
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: MY99UK-MY02STi-MY99Type R-MY06 T20-MY11 340R-MY05 TYPE25
Posts: 11,468
Received 22 Likes
on
19 Posts
Gareth,
I know that Optimax give better results than other SUL fuels but don't remember PPP saying "On the Tin" "300 Bhp and 299lbs Torque but only on optimax"
Ps Hope you get it fixed soon
Tony
I know that Optimax give better results than other SUL fuels but don't remember PPP saying "On the Tin" "300 Bhp and 299lbs Torque
but only on optimax" Ps Hope you get it fixed soon
Tony
04 February 2003, 07:33 PM
#35
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Glos UK. - Manufacturers of ECU Data Monitors.
Posts: 1,529
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not very encouraging Gareth, hoped after saturday it would as you have mentioned be pinpointed to something specific, i know from the problems i had with my MY01 PPP what a pain it is when nothing solid can be found to be wrong. If you need a same spec. car for a comparative run at the same time give me a call.
Tony, as above if you want to compare STI 7 PPP's give me a call, i have a AP22 and access to Delta Dash, and not to far from you. On saturday at the same RR as Gareth, on my first run i had 307 bhp then 296 bhp on the second.
simon 07796 992992
Tony, as above if you want to compare STI 7 PPP's give me a call, i have a AP22 and access to Delta Dash, and not to far from you. On saturday at the same RR as Gareth, on my first run i had 307 bhp then 296 bhp on the second.
simon 07796 992992
04 February 2003, 08:15 PM
#36
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Kent
Posts: 660
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cheers guys and thanks for the offer Simon.
I'm still going through my options, but as I said, I really have to do what they suggest. I'm going to collect my car tommorrow and fill up with Optimax. Then i'm going to do some serious driving for a while so that I can get through a couple of tanks of petrol ..
PS. Sorry DJB for hijacking your thread, but maybe my problem may be linked to yours.
[Edited by gareth60 - 2/4/2003 8:17:57 PM]
[Edited by gareth60 - 2/4/2003 8:19:34 PM]
I'm still going through my options, but as I said, I really have to do what they suggest. I'm going to collect my car tommorrow and fill up with Optimax. Then i'm going to do some serious driving for a while so that I can get through a couple of tanks of petrol ..
PS. Sorry DJB for hijacking your thread, but maybe my problem may be linked to yours.
[Edited by gareth60 - 2/4/2003 8:17:57 PM]
[Edited by gareth60 - 2/4/2003 8:19:34 PM]
04 February 2003, 09:07 PM
#37
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Kent
Posts: 660
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Tony / Simon,
Just sitting here thinking. I have a copy of Andy's rolling road graph. Do either of you to have access to a scanner and if so, would you mind if I had a copy?
Cheers
Gareth
Just sitting here thinking. I have a copy of Andy's rolling road graph. Do either of you to have access to a scanner and if so, would you mind if I had a copy?
Cheers
Gareth
05 February 2003, 08:07 AM
#39
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 119
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Gareth,
sorry about the news- I was running optimax that i filled the tank with on sat morning on way to RR- in my view you should be able to use any SUL
If there is anything i can do let me know
Andy
sorry about the news- I was running optimax that i filled the tank with on sat morning on way to RR- in my view you should be able to use any SUL
If there is anything i can do let me know
Andy
05 February 2003, 10:12 AM
#40
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Kent
Posts: 660
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Simon - thanks, my fax number is 0870 7066316.
Andy - thanks also, i'm still using your graph as a point of reference and both Lancasters and Prodrive have a copy that they are comparing to mine.
Gareth
Andy - thanks also, i'm still using your graph as a point of reference and both Lancasters and Prodrive have a copy that they are comparing to mine.
Gareth
05 February 2003, 11:40 AM
#41
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Telling you to run it on Optimax is BS. I would recommend anyone considering any tuning to get the car RR'd before anyone touches it. Preferably at an independant. Get it RR'd again straight afterwards. If you don't get what you expect then find out why bloody not, and don't accept all this 'try 2 tanks of this stuff BS'.
Also with all due respect the 'well these don't go well on rollers but they do on the road' is complete BS. Yeah it grows 25hp by being on the road. Where no-one can prove it one way or another except 'well it feels fast'. If someone tried that with me after taking 2 grand of my cash I'd bitch slap them. Sorry to rant but these bull**** excuses get right up my ****.
Also with all due respect the 'well these don't go well on rollers but they do on the road' is complete BS. Yeah it grows 25hp by being on the road. Where no-one can prove it one way or another except 'well it feels fast'. If someone tried that with me after taking 2 grand of my cash I'd bitch slap them. Sorry to rant but these bull**** excuses get right up my ****.
05 February 2003, 01:24 PM
#43
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Kent
Posts: 660
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
he he. I'm going to sit on the fence for a while until it's sorted, then i'll do some "bitch slapping"
Just picked my car up and give it a good spanking on the M25 to try and run the fuel down quicker A few tanks of Optimax later and i'll be taking it back. As I said earier, I will put it back on the rollers before SUK take a look, but "i'd eat my socks" if it made any difference.
Yum, yum
Gareth.
Just picked my car up and give it a good spanking on the M25 to try and run the fuel down quicker
A few tanks of Optimax later and i'll be taking it back. As I said earier, I will put it back on the rollers before SUK take a look, but "i'd eat my socks" if it made any difference.Yum, yum
Gareth.
05 February 2003, 07:54 PM
#46
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: MY99UK-MY02STi-MY99Type R-MY06 T20-MY11 340R-MY05 TYPE25
Posts: 11,468
Received 22 Likes
on
19 Posts
I thought that the STi7 was self calibrating 
and will keep trying to advance ignition for Higher Octance Fuel and retard for lower octane And believe this is done in 'Real Time' so probably just trying to ensure all the super is removed 
IMHO
Tony
and will keep trying to advance ignition for Higher Octance Fuel and retard for lower octane And believe this is done in 'Real Time' so probably just trying to ensure all the super is removed IMHO
Tony
06 February 2003, 09:20 AM
#48
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Cambs
Posts: 3,507
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Seems the wonderfull Ecutek doesnt solve this one.
My car runs like a dog first thing too but I dont like mornings either so I wouldnt worry about it and just drive the thing.
My car runs like a dog first thing too but I dont like mornings either so I wouldnt worry about it and just drive the thing.
06 February 2003, 12:40 PM
#51
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Kent
Posts: 660
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
LOL @ 58GT. That's were all my sock go to then and I thought that the washing machine ate them .
As you can see, i'm still optimistic. I'm about to phone the garage and ask for another PPP ecu to be put by for me to try.
Gareth
.As you can see, i'm still optimistic. I'm about to phone the garage and ask for another PPP ecu to be put by for me to try.
Gareth
07 February 2003, 06:34 AM
#53
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: MY99UK-MY02STi-MY99Type R-MY06 T20-MY11 340R-MY05 TYPE25
Posts: 11,468
Received 22 Likes
on
19 Posts
gareth,
Not sure IMHO but don't think so if the pump can't (for what ever reason) cant keep up the ECU won't know that not enough fuel was injected so would be lean IMHO
58gt
If Im said "PUMPS are U/S and recalled all STi7's" would cost £2,000,000 + and bad publicity = £5,000,000 (Subaru or any manufactuer) prefers to sort the recurring problems out at source might still cost £2,000,000 but no bad publicity IMHO
Tony
Not sure IMHO but don't think so
if the pump can't (for what ever reason) cant keep up the ECU won't know that not enough fuel was injected so would be lean IMHO58gt
If Im said "PUMPS are U/S and recalled all STi7's" would cost £2,000,000 + and bad publicity = £5,000,000 (Subaru or any manufactuer) prefers to sort the recurring problems out at source might still cost £2,000,000 but no bad publicity IMHO
Tony
07 February 2003, 09:10 AM
#54
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
OK but if the pump's a probem they should be aware of it and offer to sort it in the 1st instance rather than annoy people with a load of pathetic excuses that get posted on boards like this. That's how they would look like a caring proactive company intead of a load of cheapskates. IMO the price of PPP could include a fuel pump check or even a modded pump without driving SUK into bankruptcy.
07 February 2003, 09:13 AM
#55
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Tewksbury, Gloucestershire
Posts: 148
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yesterday I had an STI 7 on the rolling road and I thought I would investigate the fuel pump to see if was as bad as everyone said.
The first thing that we noticed was the fact the pump runs at 2 speeds. For the first 30secs of the engine running the pump runs at 12v, it then switches to 6v (at this point the fuel pressure drops by 0.2bar) The maximum (lockout) pressure the pump could produce at 12v was 6bar and at 6v it only made 3.5bar
The pump remained at 6v until the boost went over 0.5bar where it switched to 12v.
We then did a power run, at about 3000rpm we clamped the fuel return pipe to force the pump to produce its maximum pressure. Sure enough the fuel pressure jumped to 6bar, but as the rpm increased the pressure dropped away until at 6000rpm it was only producing 4 bar.
This proves the standard pump is not man enough for the job by a long shot. It cannot produce the flow and pressure required by a bog standard engine let alone a modified one. I would advise any sti7 owner with any kind of mod on his car to replace the pump ASAP as there is a huge risk of engine damage.
The car we tested was a 1500 mile example, so God knows what the pump would be like after 50,000m
There is a high pressure pump kit available @ £130.00
Rich
The first thing that we noticed was the fact the pump runs at 2 speeds. For the first 30secs of the engine running the pump runs at 12v, it then switches to 6v (at this point the fuel pressure drops by 0.2bar) The maximum (lockout) pressure the pump could produce at 12v was 6bar and at 6v it only made 3.5bar
The pump remained at 6v until the boost went over 0.5bar where it switched to 12v.
We then did a power run, at about 3000rpm we clamped the fuel return pipe to force the pump to produce its maximum pressure. Sure enough the fuel pressure jumped to 6bar, but as the rpm increased the pressure dropped away until at 6000rpm it was only producing 4 bar.
This proves the standard pump is not man enough for the job by a long shot. It cannot produce the flow and pressure required by a bog standard engine let alone a modified one. I would advise any sti7 owner with any kind of mod on his car to replace the pump ASAP as there is a huge risk of engine damage.
The car we tested was a 1500 mile example, so God knows what the pump would be like after 50,000m
There is a high pressure pump kit available @ £130.00
Rich
07 February 2003, 09:42 AM
#56
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Kent
Posts: 660
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rich,
That's interesting, where did you go for this information?. Do you have a graph for your run you could scan in for me, i'd like to compare it to mine.
If (and i'm guessing here!) my fuel pump is faulty and as Tony says that the ECU won't know about it, how can anyone test it by just plugging in a diagnostics tool into the CPU. This worries me as that is all Subaru are doing.
Rich, can you point me to a url or something where I can get an upgraded fuel pump kit.
Cheers guys
That's interesting, where did you go for this information?. Do you have a graph for your run you could scan in for me, i'd like to compare it to mine.
If (and i'm guessing here!) my fuel pump is faulty and as Tony says that the ECU won't know about it, how can anyone test it by just plugging in a diagnostics tool into the CPU. This worries me as that is all Subaru are doing.
Rich, can you point me to a url or something where I can get an upgraded fuel pump kit.
Cheers guys
07 February 2003, 11:23 AM
#57
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Tewksbury, Gloucestershire
Posts: 148
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Gareth:
We did this investigation on our own rolling road, Powerstation.
The fuel pressure can only usfully be monitored with a fuel pressure gauge whilst the car is under full load.
The pumps are available from the above address
Cheers Rich
We did this investigation on our own rolling road, Powerstation.
The fuel pressure can only usfully be monitored with a fuel pressure gauge whilst the car is under full load.
The pumps are available from the above address
Cheers Rich
07 February 2003, 01:24 PM
#59
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: MY99UK-MY02STi-MY99Type R-MY06 T20-MY11 340R-MY05 TYPE25
Posts: 11,468
Received 22 Likes
on
19 Posts
Rich,
I will be having a conversation with my Dealer ( Listers) If I buy the pump and they fit it Will it affect my warrenty ?
There is some suggestions that if a Better/replacement Pump is fitted the Fuel regulator may need replacing/adjusting, is this so??
Tony
I will be having a conversation with my Dealer ( Listers) If I buy the pump and they fit it
Will it affect my warrenty ? There is some suggestions that if a Better/replacement Pump is fitted the Fuel regulator may need replacing/adjusting, is this so??
Tony
