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40% for the government
Well I heard the Government response to that one this morning
It was recomended by an independant review like the Firemans Baine review
It was the first rise for 4 years
what he forgot to mention was that they were on a bloody good salary before their increase and most of them have 2nd"jobs"
Phil
Well I heard the Government response to that one this morning
It was recomended by an independant review like the Firemans Baine review
It was the first rise for 4 years
what he forgot to mention was that they were on a bloody good salary before their increase and most of them have 2nd"jobs"
Phil
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John an informed and logical statement and as usual (with the possible exception of the 2nd round of SIDC Trackday debate 
) I'm entirely in agreement.
B2Z, I feel you are being influenced by the emotional hype.
During the time they are dealing with emergencies firefighters have a difficult job. (BTW The local news report on Friday night stated that across the North West Region the army had dealt with 30 "999" calls ranging from a chip pan fire to a skip set alight.)
So far as horrendous trauma is concerned, in addition to the old they knew what they were getting themselves into statement. A nurse in Special Care Baby Units or Accident and Emergency will be exposed to a significantly greater amount of stress, it comes with the territory. As will the Paramedics, who have also been known to place themselves in considerable personal danger in their attempts to save life. These guys don't get called to rescue cats or pump out basements, neither do they have a team of mates to help out and a senior officer to make decisions and take the blame. In addition they are ALWAYS dealing with human life, not a field of corn or a derelict building.
You tell me
It used to take a special type of dedication to work in the emergency services. When did the Ambulance Service last withdraw their labour, or Royal College of Nursing call a strike?
It is hardly credible that a tubedriver should be paid over £30,000 but if firefighters who refuse to develop new skills are "worth" that with six weeks training. After years of experience, backed by a degree, and a formal requirement to undergo Continuous Professional Development, how much should a Nurse Practitioner "earn" ?
) I'm entirely in agreement.B2Z, I feel you are being influenced by the emotional hype.
During the time they are dealing with emergencies firefighters have a difficult job. (BTW The local news report on Friday night stated that across the North West Region the army had dealt with 30 "999" calls ranging from a chip pan fire to a skip set alight.)
So far as horrendous trauma is concerned, in addition to the old they knew what they were getting themselves into statement. A nurse in Special Care Baby Units or Accident and Emergency will be exposed to a significantly greater amount of stress, it comes with the territory. As will the Paramedics, who have also been known to place themselves in considerable personal danger in their attempts to save life. These guys don't get called to rescue cats or pump out basements, neither do they have a team of mates to help out and a senior officer to make decisions and take the blame. In addition they are ALWAYS dealing with human life, not a field of corn or a derelict building.
What's harder and more important?
It used to take a special type of dedication to work in the emergency services. When did the Ambulance Service last withdraw their labour, or Royal College of Nursing call a strike?
It is hardly credible that a tubedriver should be paid over £30,000 but if firefighters who refuse to develop new skills are "worth" that with six weeks training. After years of experience, backed by a degree, and a formal requirement to undergo Continuous Professional Development, how much should a Nurse Practitioner "earn" ?
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banshi,
Maybe you should stop gettin g bamboozled by the sentimental **** wiping tabloids. They are cretinous journalists wha are bitter and twisted in the main
They deserve it because they deserve a decent wage like you and me. I think if they were at all picky, maybe they would have a go at you for being able to post whilst at work
They are generally non judgemental decent people so they probably wouldnt put up pettty arguments I have seen up here.
Anyway FFS, see the bigger picture....maybe we should be targetting the fat cats, and all the pay offs for ***** that have really bolloxed up! THEY are the ones that are threatening the economy and causing greed etc etc
God I cant be arsed
Firemen deserve a better wage.
Maybe you should stop gettin g bamboozled by the sentimental **** wiping tabloids. They are cretinous journalists wha are bitter and twisted in the main
They deserve it because they deserve a decent wage like you and me. I think if they were at all picky, maybe they would have a go at you for being able to post whilst at work
They are generally non judgemental decent people so they probably wouldnt put up pettty arguments I have seen up here.Anyway FFS, see the bigger picture....maybe we should be targetting the fat cats, and all the pay offs for ***** that have really bolloxed up! THEY are the ones that are threatening the economy and causing greed etc etc
God I cant be arsed
Firemen deserve a better wage.
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Anyway FFS, see the bigger picture....maybe we should be targetting the fat cats, and all the pay offs for ***** that have really bolloxed up! THEY are the ones that are threatening the economy and causing greed etc etc
I'm willing to bet there's no country in the world where firemen earn as much as company executives.
[Edited by carl - 11/25/2002 12:38:09 PM]
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And harping on about how much of a pay rise MPs have awarded themselves is stupid, too. I agree that the method by which the pay rises for MPs is decided is wrong -- they vote for them themselves 
-- but there are only 650 MPs in the whole country, so in the big scheme of things an extra 10k each isn't going to make a lot of difference (6.5 million). Gordon Brown has estimated that a 16% pay rise for the firefighters would cost 0.5 billion, so logically a 40% pay rise would be 1.25 billion. That's over 40 quid per taxpayer per year(estimating at 30 million taxpayers in the country).
From the BBC News website:
Average firefighter earnings after five years (not including overtime)
Ireland - £26,518
Denmark - £24,171
Norway - £22,946
UK - £21,531
Belgium - £17,821
Germany - £16,401
-- but there are only 650 MPs in the whole country, so in the big scheme of things an extra 10k each isn't going to make a lot of difference (6.5 million). Gordon Brown has estimated that a 16% pay rise for the firefighters would cost 0.5 billion, so logically a 40% pay rise would be 1.25 billion. That's over 40 quid per taxpayer per year(estimating at 30 million taxpayers in the country).From the BBC News website:
Average firefighter earnings after five years (not including overtime)
Ireland - £26,518
Denmark - £24,171
Norway - £22,946
UK - £21,531
Belgium - £17,821
Germany - £16,401
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Carl, I think you will find that share holders WILL start to ask questions of the fat cats....there isnt an unlimited amount of cash...the stock market surely reflects this? Pensions etc. I mean how much money can one person need. Its just greed, its selfish and it is not healthy. For any of us!
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Steve did I say I didn't give a **** about the army having to do this job during the strikes? No I didn't! I said I don't give a **** about my reply getting torn to shreds because I support the firefighters in their claim for money. It also seems that my point about they have to modernise their working practises first was overlooked too. Yes they need to do more hours, learn new skilss etc etc.
As for emotional feelings coming into it before sense, no I they werent from me. I simply think that job is worth a hell of a lot more than 21k a year. Thats my opinion.
And Banshi as far going on about nurses in special care baby units being so under pressure, DON'T EVEN START ME ON THAT ONE!!! I have first hand experience of how a special care baby unit is run and lets just put it politely - I AM FAR FROM FEKING IMPRESSED OK! I could give my reasons why but that would be far too personal. They are not as wonderful and as highly motivated as you seem to think, that is just my experience of my local one.
And yes I think nurses should be paid a hell of a lot more too, did I say they didn't? I didn't realise they were part of this discussion too, I thought it was about the firefighters?
I also agree with Sheepsplitter on his statement regarding the number of applicants for the job being a reason to give them the pay that they get.
Just because a high number of people apply doesn't mean they can all do the job. Thats like saying to Pete if I was to apply for your job along with 50,000 other people and we will do it for half of what you get then you shouldn't be paid what you get now! Its total boll0x.
I have probably missed some comments on my post but I will respond again if I have. Except for Marty, I have left that out because my comments are cr@p apparently, so no point in trying to debate with him
GTT don't fall for it cos then they have you
As for emotional feelings coming into it before sense, no I they werent from me. I simply think that job is worth a hell of a lot more than 21k a year. Thats my opinion.
And Banshi as far going on about nurses in special care baby units being so under pressure, DON'T EVEN START ME ON THAT ONE!!! I have first hand experience of how a special care baby unit is run and lets just put it politely - I AM FAR FROM FEKING IMPRESSED OK! I could give my reasons why but that would be far too personal. They are not as wonderful and as highly motivated as you seem to think, that is just my experience of my local one.
And yes I think nurses should be paid a hell of a lot more too, did I say they didn't? I didn't realise they were part of this discussion too, I thought it was about the firefighters?
I also agree with Sheepsplitter on his statement regarding the number of applicants for the job being a reason to give them the pay that they get.
Just because a high number of people apply doesn't mean they can all do the job. Thats like saying to Pete if I was to apply for your job along with 50,000 other people and we will do it for half of what you get then you shouldn't be paid what you get now! Its total boll0x.
I have probably missed some comments on my post but I will respond again if I have. Except for Marty, I have left that out because my comments are cr@p apparently, so no point in trying to debate with him
GTT don't fall for it cos then they have you
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When they're not worth it, the don't get it. Like the bloke from GlaxoSmithKline http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/2508047.stm
Sure, I don't think that the chief exec of a company can possibly be doing £10 million quid's worth of work. OTOH if somebody offered me the job, I would take the money (and not give it to the firefighters)
Sure, I don't think that the chief exec of a company can possibly be doing £10 million quid's worth of work. OTOH if somebody offered me the job, I would take the money (and not give it to the firefighters)
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quote]Firemen.... deserve a decent wage like you and me[/quote]
Agree entirely :- 16% linked to radical service changes and a modernisation agenda.
GTT
As I'm even older than Pete Lewis I haven't opened a tabloid since before the Sun adopted page three girls to promote it's cirulation.
Fortunately I am not prone to the wild speculation you appear to indulge in. My opinion on this matter has defined by elimination of rhetoric and fiction then an objective assessment of the facts.
So given that you believe the FBUs claim is justified. How much should that nice little Paramedic in the Volvo T5 be paid?
[Edited by banshi - 11/25/2002 1:24:16 PM]
Agree entirely :- 16% linked to radical service changes and a modernisation agenda.
GTT
As I'm even older than Pete Lewis I haven't opened a tabloid since before the Sun adopted page three girls to promote it's cirulation.
Fortunately I am not prone to the wild speculation you appear to indulge in. My opinion on this matter has defined by elimination of rhetoric and fiction then an objective assessment of the facts.
So given that you believe the FBUs claim is justified. How much should that nice little Paramedic in the Volvo T5 be paid?
[Edited by banshi - 11/25/2002 1:24:16 PM]
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The guy in charge of the Fire brigade's union is getting £85+K per year. I think he is pushing so hard out of guilt. He spouts off about their wages but I bet he is still getting paid and will have loads of cash for christmas.
40% is a little steep. I know they do a dangerous and demanding job but where will the cutbacks come from to finance a 40% rise. What about the nurse's, police, ambulance drivers. They all deserve a rise but they are not holding the country to ramsom for it.
40% is a little steep. I know they do a dangerous and demanding job but where will the cutbacks come from to finance a 40% rise. What about the nurse's, police, ambulance drivers. They all deserve a rise but they are not holding the country to ramsom for it.
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Bravo
Nice one!
I do a bit of nursing. I dont think I deserve THAT much more than the firefighters. not that I am advocating a wage reduction for them either of course. Just think the firefighters deserve more, in return for well reasoned and SAFE modernisation. 16% of not very much is not very much!
[Edited by GirlyTrailerTrash - 11/25/2002 1:27:07 PM]
Nice one!
I do a bit of nursing. I dont think I deserve THAT much more than the firefighters. not that I am advocating a wage reduction for them either of course. Just think the firefighters deserve more, in return for well reasoned and SAFE modernisation. 16% of not very much is not very much!
[Edited by GirlyTrailerTrash - 11/25/2002 1:27:07 PM]
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Banshi, only just read your post.
Like I say in nursing. Yep they deserve a decent wage. I think its ok the salary at mo. The conditions are crap tho, and so is the money that is in the NHS. THAT should be improved.
firemen need to catch up a bit
Like I say in nursing. Yep they deserve a decent wage. I think its ok the salary at mo. The conditions are crap tho, and so is the money that is in the NHS. THAT should be improved.
firemen need to catch up a bit
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But if you're a nurse, I guess you get the option to work for a private hospital?
I knew a bloke who was a medical physicist (bachelors and masters degrees, etc.) and the only people who employ medical physicists are the NHS. If a private hospital needs to use one, they subcontract the NHS. I don't think he had a lot of career options
I knew a bloke who was a medical physicist (bachelors and masters degrees, etc.) and the only people who employ medical physicists are the NHS. If a private hospital needs to use one, they subcontract the NHS. I don't think he had a lot of career options
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B2Z,
I too have some very recent experience with special care baby units. Because of their constant hard work over a 3 week period my niece is alive today despite the doctor saying he didn't think she's make it through her first night. The nurses are underpaid and overworked... not something that could be said of the firemen. I think 21k is a pretty decent salary for what they do and they training and skills they require, especially if they have enough time off to take up another job.
Granted, everyone wants to earn more money... so... if the rewards from a job aren't good enough, get another job.
I too have some very recent experience with special care baby units. Because of their constant hard work over a 3 week period my niece is alive today despite the doctor saying he didn't think she's make it through her first night. The nurses are underpaid and overworked... not something that could be said of the firemen. I think 21k is a pretty decent salary for what they do and they training and skills they require, especially if they have enough time off to take up another job.
Granted, everyone wants to earn more money... so... if the rewards from a job aren't good enough, get another job.
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Thanks GTT, sorry I didn't mean to digress the thread people, just got a little side tracked with Banshi and Marty for a mo.
Also as far as lack of support goes, I drove past the Blackwall Tunnel station on the Woolwich road in south London last night and there was far from lack of support for them. All you could hear was horns of cars being beeped.
Depends on who you want to believe really.
Also as far as lack of support goes, I drove past the Blackwall Tunnel station on the Woolwich road in south London last night and there was far from lack of support for them. All you could hear was horns of cars being beeped.
Depends on who you want to believe really.