Good website to explain ECU mapping?
29 October 2002, 08:10 AM
#61
So you think the graph is correct Paul..... going from the master data this would make sense to me as the axes are now the same way round for the ignition and fuel maps. I.e looking at the table of data going fromm the left top corner = low low/rpm/throttle to bottom right corner = high load/rpm/throttle.
That i can understand any other way and im confused
.
Tony.
That i can understand any other way and im confused
.Tony.
29 October 2002, 10:57 AM
#63
These are the fuel and ignition bits of the master file and how i have them tabled with regards to load/rpm/throttle:
This is the ignition bit of the master file:
Now in table form:
This is the fuel part of the master file:
And again in table form:
Are these correct or does anybody think the load or rpm/throttle bit should be inverted... if so why????
Tony.
This is the ignition bit of the master file:
Now in table form:
This is the fuel part of the master file:
And again in table form:
Are these correct or does anybody think the load or rpm/throttle bit should be inverted... if so why????
Tony.
29 October 2002, 11:04 AM
#64
This is getting everybody really confused....
I have been looking into this, this morning and it appears that the maps that have been modded by the likes of PROVA have advanced the ignition in the bottom right and top right of the tables with respect to a standard WRX95 Z4 map. However the values in both top and bottom right corners are of similar advance.
So it doesn't really help.... I know Paul has been playing with his Legacy and a knocklink, so hopefully he has some definate answers.
To be safe knock a few degrees off either end, it can't do any harm.
For info : A W6 ECU has 0 Degree's advance in the top right hand corner of the table.
So this could mean that instead of high revs/high load it is low revs/high load, which kinda makes sense.
If you plant ya foot on the floor at low revs, it's gonna start pre-igniting unless it's retarded well.
This is taken from an early origional WRX map, so maybe later on they realised that they didn't need it retarded quite as much.
[Edited by Scott.T - 10/29/2002 11:26:01 AM]
I have been looking into this, this morning and it appears that the maps that have been modded by the likes of PROVA have advanced the ignition in the bottom right and top right of the tables with respect to a standard WRX95 Z4 map. However the values in both top and bottom right corners are of similar advance.
So it doesn't really help.... I know Paul has been playing with his Legacy and a knocklink, so hopefully he has some definate answers.
To be safe knock a few degrees off either end, it can't do any harm.
For info : A W6 ECU has 0 Degree's advance in the top right hand corner of the table.
So this could mean that instead of high revs/high load it is low revs/high load, which kinda makes sense.
If you plant ya foot on the floor at low revs, it's gonna start pre-igniting unless it's retarded well.
This is taken from an early origional WRX map, so maybe later on they realised that they didn't need it retarded quite as much.
[Edited by Scott.T - 10/29/2002 11:26:01 AM]
29 October 2002, 11:19 AM
#65
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Sorry to ask again, but could somebody mail me the document - it may have been done but I'm on hotmail so it could have bounced 
Thanks
Justin
Thanks
Justin
29 October 2002, 11:44 AM
#66
These are the 3D graphs from the above tables:
I think everybody would agree that the fuel one is correct..... very rich at high/revs high load so why would the axes be inverted on the ignition one..... wouldn't they be in the same sort of format etc..... Also if you look at the ECUtek web page and look at the DEltaECU bit there are some ignition tables there.... these show highest advance at low load and mid to high rpm. This is what the table/3d graph above shows.
Or am i being dumd (wouldn't be surprised
).#
Tony.
[Edited by Tone Loc - 10/29/2002 11:47:20 AM]
[Edited by Tone Loc - 10/29/2002 11:51:41 AM]
[Edited by Tone Loc - 10/29/2002 12:31:59 PM]
I think everybody would agree that the fuel one is correct..... very rich at high/revs high load so why would the axes be inverted on the ignition one..... wouldn't they be in the same sort of format etc..... Also if you look at the ECUtek web page and look at the DEltaECU bit there are some ignition tables there.... these show highest advance at low load and mid to high rpm. This is what the table/3d graph above shows.
Or am i being dumd (wouldn't be surprised
).#Tony.
[Edited by Tone Loc - 10/29/2002 11:47:20 AM]
[Edited by Tone Loc - 10/29/2002 11:51:41 AM]
[Edited by Tone Loc - 10/29/2002 12:31:59 PM]
29 October 2002, 02:59 PM
#74
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Cheers Tone,
So interesting at WOT the Prova Map does run a couple of degrees more advance than the WRX 95 -
Although the WRX 95 is a tiny tiny bit leaner with regards to fuel.
So interesting at WOT the Prova Map does run a couple of degrees more advance than the WRX 95 -
Although the WRX 95 is a tiny tiny bit leaner with regards to fuel.
30 October 2002, 02:55 PM
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Hi guys,
Like many other avid readers here, I too would greatly appreciate someone emailing me 'the document'.
If you could send it to: ajs@invetech.com.au that would be wonderful and I'd (hopefully) be a little bit closer to understanding electronic computer management.
My interest in all this? Like a few others in this thread, I am also a Mechanical Engineer (I work for a biomedical instrument design consultancy company in Australia. Thats the division i work in anyway - we also design some of the worlds most advance fire and security detection systems - hold getting of topic here) with a number of years of race car experience (rallying) but don't have a great understanding of ECU's etc but have now developed a passion to learn as much as I can and am just starting to (I think its the engineer thing - we are just 'curious'!) and am most appreciative of information others are willing to pass on (the stand alone ECU monitor that AndrewC and others are playing with has definitely captured my attention). Anyway, sorry for ranting on and not adding anything useful to this thread!
Adam
Like many other avid readers here, I too would greatly appreciate someone emailing me 'the document'.
If you could send it to: ajs@invetech.com.au that would be wonderful and I'd (hopefully) be a little bit closer to understanding electronic computer management.
My interest in all this? Like a few others in this thread, I am also a Mechanical Engineer (I work for a biomedical instrument design consultancy company in Australia. Thats the division i work in anyway - we also design some of the worlds most advance fire and security detection systems - hold getting of topic here) with a number of years of race car experience (rallying) but don't have a great understanding of ECU's etc but have now developed a passion to learn as much as I can and am just starting to (I think its the engineer thing - we are just 'curious'!) and am most appreciative of information others are willing to pass on (the stand alone ECU monitor that AndrewC and others are playing with has definitely captured my attention). Anyway, sorry for ranting on and not adding anything useful to this thread!
Adam
30 October 2002, 04:44 PM
#81
eveyone seems to have it sorted now.
The thing to remember is that different maps have different load scales, so things are not always as they appear. ANd also load is not throttle position although it is influenced by it. So at max rpm, you will probably be a few rows away from may load.
Also worth noting the differet advance at high speed/low load. Putting zero advance will change the emissions charactristic, and probably ignite fuel very late when you back of for a gear change, resulting in more pops. Add shed loads of fuel at the same time and interesting things can happen. I wouldn't look at the ECU tek ignition graphs as being any sort of guide, as they are from cars with different fuelling, turbo's, intercooler and combustion chamber design, all of which will affect likelyhood of detonation.
Spreadsheet looks somewhat familiar...
Paul
The thing to remember is that different maps have different load scales, so things are not always as they appear. ANd also load is not throttle position although it is influenced by it. So at max rpm, you will probably be a few rows away from may load.
Also worth noting the differet advance at high speed/low load. Putting zero advance will change the emissions charactristic, and probably ignite fuel very late when you back of for a gear change, resulting in more pops. Add shed loads of fuel at the same time and interesting things can happen. I wouldn't look at the ECU tek ignition graphs as being any sort of guide, as they are from cars with different fuelling, turbo's, intercooler and combustion chamber design, all of which will affect likelyhood of detonation.
Spreadsheet looks somewhat familiar...
Paul
31 October 2002, 11:51 AM
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Received a copy this morning, thanks Tony! ;D It took forever to download thanks to my poxy 52k dial up.
John, this makes for a great read, extremely well written, informative and clear. Thanks for making it available... Ever thought of writing a book?
Mike
John, this makes for a great read, extremely well written, informative and clear. Thanks for making it available... Ever thought of writing a book?
Mike
31 October 2002, 12:28 PM
#89
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more to the point the email explains nothing...
Lets have info on egt's and gas speed... affects of too much fuel.. too little fuel, water injection
Ignition advance and retard.. oh and ANTI-LAG!
David
Lets have info on egt's and gas speed... affects of too much fuel.. too little fuel, water injection
Ignition advance and retard.. oh and ANTI-LAG!
David
31 October 2002, 05:05 PM
#90
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David the article is primary school basics of ECUs designed for a general audience not DIY ECU mappers 
I've not found any really good material on mapping for anti-lag. Maybe a quick release turbo would be a good idea to go with it Sam Elassar might fill you in on how his GEMS antilag is mapped on his Evo 7, but on the other hand I gather the passenger could not tell it was even on it was so mild 
Seems to go along the lines of shed loads of fuel and loads of ignition retard to get the EGTs up to keep the turbo spinning.
http://members.aol.com/dvandrews/ems.htm
This article is again very basic but a good overview...
[Edited by john banks - 10/31/2002 5:15:14 PM]
I've not found any really good material on mapping for anti-lag. Maybe a quick release turbo would be a good idea to go with it
Sam Elassar might fill you in on how his GEMS antilag is mapped on his Evo 7, but on the other hand I gather the passenger could not tell it was even on it was so mild Seems to go along the lines of shed loads of fuel and loads of ignition retard to get the EGTs up to keep the turbo spinning.http://members.aol.com/dvandrews/ems.htm
This article is again very basic but a good overview...
[Edited by john banks - 10/31/2002 5:15:14 PM]