sebastian

yes that arrogonat attitude has kept me in business for the last 30 years

2 houses ,a villa in spain,a Van a Rover and a Evo

oh and i have advertised once,yes once in my 30 years of being a self employed Plumber and heating engineerWe dont even have the van sign written

Maybe my work is good

what do you do for a living??


New technology Coming soon,online plumbing and heating repairs,from the comfort of my Villa in spain.Watch this space.
I will beat any online plumbing/heating repair quote.

 

interesting, i think we should calm down a bit - whilst i agree with scoobynutter, the conditions are not great etc and you go back to college and pay to have someone often younger than you, tell you how to do the job you have done for x number of years. i think to condemn the entire building trade in the manner that sebatian did is way off. i should imagine he has visited a lavatory recently and i am hoping that he washed his hands afterwards. and what about a hose so that you can wash your scooby?!
peace
weava

 

I hope the Inland Revenue have been correctly paid. Trouble is it is so easy to forget all those cash in hand jobs, isn't it?

 

seb,
i will send you my books if you want to check??

its too risky to fiddle the tax system being self employed.
Your home,family,business,livelyhood is on the line if you take the risk.

I can sleep at night knowing everything is in order.

 

I know a couple of sitemanagers that work for house builders and they have been struggling to get trades for a while,especially plumbers.There is a shortage at the moment and they think is is only going to get worse.

Andy

PS what do the plumbers think of the plastic piping compared to copper.That must make jobs quicker and easier?

 

Weeva, I am a self employed "rip off" spark.

 

anyone going to comment... on the notching joists?

 

dont get me started on plumbers

we had one do some work and everything he installed leaked.now to my mind the first thing a plumber should learn is to install stuff without it leaking

then we had a problem with a shower that wouldnt work properly

the tw*t had reversed the hot and cold feeds so the thermostat was getting mighty confused.

cost me 500 quid to fix his f*ck ups

 

i've seen a plumber who put a 5kw shower in the ring..

Nice.

David

 

I really want to be able to do all my own plumbing and electrics (ie complete rewiring or installs from scratch). However is the legal situation that it all has to be done by registered electricians or Corgi registered plumbers? Or can I put in the lot myself so long as I leave the last check over and connection to a tradesman?

If that's not the case, can anyone say how I could become a registered electrician / Corgi registered plumber? Cheers!

 

QUOTE:i've seen a plumber who put a 5kw shower in the ring..

LOL i bet the wire was glowing!!!

QUOTE:anyone going to comment... on the notching joists?

if you have ever tried feeding a 22mm copper pipe through a 25mm hole in joists runnig the wrong way to the pipework you will realise that it cant be done.With lengths of pipe at 3meters and joists at 16inch centers,how can you feed the pipe through the holes in every joists???Or would you like me to cut the pipe down at every joist and solder it back together??

Its hard enough with plastic pipe never mind copper!

Also years ago in my area some houses were plumbed in,notching the joists upstairs, yes theres no other way to do it,but downstairs they notched the joists??!!instead of running the pipes below joist level and clipping,they took every board up and notched the joist on the top!!
must have liked the extra work

 

You are complaining about the poor quality of work and frequent Rip Off's well a lot of this is because you will not pay the money needed to have a Skilled Tradesman, but think cheapest is best! There is a very big shortage of good electricians in the south east so many companies are struggling to get good staff and this will only get alot worse as the quality of people coming into the trade is of variable quality. This is because why would they want to work in poor conditions for £10 per hour with no sick pay, no job security frequently a daily commute of 3 hours in london traffic to meet clients who view them as second class citizens because they get their hands dirty.

 

Paul W-I hope you havn't actually installed your own heating systems as it is illegal

 

What an absolute classic of a thread. Must add my £0.02 here.

Had tears rolling down my eyes at this one. So do you really think that in the real world, you find it unfair that your plumber whilst working on your job treks to Plumb Center, in his own time, using his own petrol and wearing out his own van, and charges you more than he pays for the stuff?

Why shouldn't they? Does going to uni automatically mean you are cleverer, and therefore should earn more money? Correct me if you think otherwise, but IMHO a lad grafting on a 5 year apprenticeship, working a 40 hour week for 50 weeks of the year on a starting pay of around £60 a week deserves the right to earn a good living at the end of it.

Just looked at your profile. Granted tradesmen are cash in hand kings, but then if income tax was paid in by everyone by the book, you would probably be out of a job.

And judging by your comments, I presume you insist that every tradesman that enteres your property presents you with a bill with the full and correct amount of VAT added at the bottom, or when presented with the classic line "Its £130 quid mate, but call it £100 for cash" no doubt you scramble for the chequebook and scribble the correct amount in the right hand box.

Bang on the money. When I started as an apprentice cabinet maker 10 years ago, we had a classful at college. After 6 months, when most realised that some graft was involved, we had around 6. Two completed the course 3 years later. This in an area covering all of Manchester and Cheshire.

If you are 16 and lazy, Blair positively encourages you to stay in education for years to obtain a media studies degree, qualifying you to do bugger all by the time you are 23. Makes the employment figures look good. Hence for most 16 year olds, it beats working 40 hours a week for apprentice wages. Hence no tradesmen. As long as we all have holes in our *****, there will always be a cracked bog, a broken gas pipe or a leaky roof to mend. So who will do the job in 10 years? Basic economics state that price is determined by demand and supply. Figure it out.

Have to agree that there should be tighter controls, mainly to stop the two-bit DIy'ers with a van and a mobile coming to your house and running amok amongst the copper pipes and the biscuit barrel. Sadly the proper ones are always the busy ones and the hardest to get hold of.

And with no apprentices, the world is a poorer place. Means we can't send 'em to the merchants for lengths of fallopian tube, bubbles for spirit levels, sky hooks, and long stands.

 

I am a automotive electrition! If i told someone i earn 300 quid a day they call me a thief but if i worked in an office sitting on my **** all day pressing buttons earning that sort of money im a genius ??????

 

cletterridge,

Depends what you mean by registered electrician.

You could go to night school etc and take the IEE regs, you will then be as qualified as some of the ten pound an hour cowboys.

You could do a timed served apprenticeship usually lasting around four years and averaging at least one day a week at college.

Or go for it fully and serve the above apprenticeship, go to college for another two years or so and then to uni for a further three to be a Chartered Electrical Engineer.

If anyone comes to do house wiring saying they are a qualified electrician ask them where they did their apprenticeship and what qualifications they earned at college.

If anyone doing house wiring is advertising being an Electrical Engineer ask them where they took their degree and also ask them why they are doing house wiring with such a degree under their belt.

Lee


Edited because the ability to work out fault potential on 132000v distribution down to sorting out 12v PLC's doesn't mean I can spell

[Edited by logiclee - 10/19/2002 11:20:41 PM]

 

And if you think plumbers are bad, you should try the customers.

Why do they expect the "While you're here, can you just" jobs not to be chargeable?

Why do they expect 30-60 days interest free credit?

Why do they look offended when you charge them VAT?

Why do they look at you as second class citizens, or something like stuff they have just trodden in?

Why do they, simply and without warning, REFUSE to pay for £10000 worth of perfectly commissioned craftsmanship, and tell you to **** off? (OK that's personal experience. If you see a Jaguar with the reg plate RTL1 parked in Wilmslow, key it).

Why is it that the customer's spouse ALWAYS just so happens to have the chequebook on the day you go out of your way to collect what is owed?

"The cheques in the post" Ha ha. The second biggest lie in the world.

 

Is the fist biggest (no dear i wont c**e in your mouth!!

 

Sorry that should say first!!

 

Why is it that when it comes to paying the customer allways says "oh there isn't enough money in the cheque account, so i will have to get a building society cheque for you" even though you make it quite clear that its payement on compleation verbally and in writing to which they agree. Old customers are the worst for wanting things done for nothing and then giving you the I'm an OAP look when you give them the bill, rant over even though plumbers and electricians could probably moan more about bad customers than vice versa.

 

Adrian ,mog,olly,doctor
some real good points made there

Expect a flood of responses when they get back to their IT jobs on monday at about 9:30-10am and start surfing
I will have done about 2 jobs by then

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For those of you that dont know, these plumbers and electricians get "trade" prices if they open up an account, some of the more untrustworthy pass the over the counter price to the consumer ( when the account prices for them are much cheaper), you and me have to pay the full price while some of them rip you off.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Had tears rolling down my eyes at this one. So do you really think that in the real world, you find it unfair that your plumber whilst working on your job treks to Plumb Center, in his own time, using his own petrol and wearing out his own van, and charges you more than he pays for the stuff?

I think its totally unfair to be charged over £1000 for a simple wall mounted fan assist boiler that i have recently seen online for a paltry £350 delivered to your door. Which incidently has already broken down. I dont think £650 is a reasonable price for fitting do you? It was a straight swap and was hurridly put in an hour before an England match.

Where the trade price differs from the price of the boiler by £100's of pounds and the consumer isnt informed, that to me is a rip-off. In any case, i have just ordered a boiler from an online source which is £50 cheaper than the TRADE account price in the plumb centre, there will be tears rolling "down your eyes" (whatever that means, i thought it was meant to be cheeks not eyes) when poeple twig on to this lucrative money maker, i fear however the extra cash will be tagged on to something else.

In any case, theres no excuse for said tradesman to state that he will begin a job at a certain time then not do til a week later (if youre lucky) and not bother to pick up a phone. When the excuses come theres always a sick relative somewhere, rather than "im spreading meself too thin to do all the jobs i have promised to do so stop whining and give me the money"

 

Scoobynutta-I assume that you only got one price for supplying and fitting your boiler and accepted it on the spot and so can only have yourself to blame for paying out more than you should have. Most people get 3 estimates and research the job and then go with who they feel most comfortable with (not always the cheapest). I have sometimes been estimating against 8 or 9 other plumbers and if succesful get to see the other estimates, the price differential is sometimes unbelivable for example a combi boiler swap can vary from £900 to £4,500 as I've seen recently. My figures were £1450, the customer more than happy and paid on the nose for once.

 

Oh yeah hindsight is a wonderful thing especially after spending your money and then checking prices online....................

 

A plumber was recommened to me by someone at work, he is reasonable but not the cheapest, has always turned up on time and his work is first class.

In every trade there are cowboys and rip off merchants, I would ring round friends and family as well as asking at work before ringing someone out of the yellow pages etc.

 

logiclee..

Shame you dont work in leeds as I guarantee you would know my dad..

was in major projects, network design etc..

all up to 132kv.. And Yes he does have a couple of degrees... Electrical Engineering I think...

Im so tempted to go to a few friends houses and take photos of wiring and plumbing.. laid on notched joists... all boards are split.. never screwed / nailed back down.. (as some dont dare!)

I guarantee every single pipe in our house be it 22mm down to microbore runs through the joists... not notched.. if you drill the holes straight and then drill a couple to slide them in with you can then slide it in and then run it back.. takes a lot of time though. I have to laugh when I see a plumber lift a suspended ceingling tile and then throw a reel of plastic pipe across and then just cable tie it in place.. Pipes dont bother me too much, but its sheer laziness with wires.

 

mog..

Why??

I thought to do gas you had to be corgi registered.. but to fit the heating is illegal? dont believe it.. as you best come and lock me up if it is...

Whats the difference between me moving a radiator and altering a lot of the plumbing on a mates boiler, and me mounting the boiler on the wall???

David

 

QUOTE: i have just ordered a boiler from an online source which is £50 cheaper than the TRADE account price in the plumb centre.

There are trade prices and trade prices
if you phone plumb center up and enquire about a boiler,you will get book price.if you ask for trade price you will get trade price,if you actually have a account with them you get trade trade price,if you spend £00000's each month you get trade trade trade price

different terms for different companies/plumbers etc,some items we get 60% off book price.Its business im afraid

Plumb center know how to run their plumbing outlets after all they are the worlds largest plumbing suppliers.

 

Notching joists: there's a kit youm can buy which fits into the notch, holds the pipes securely, whilst allowing them to expand without it sounding like someone started a moped under your floor, has a cap which screws into place, and therefore keeps the strength/integrity of the joist.
I do agree that it's not always possible to go through holes in the joists- try doing it in a small bathroom where there isn't space to pull the pipe back to thread it!
Hope the plumbing/electrical police don't come near my house. I haven't paid a tradesman for years!
Alcazar

 

David Wallis- What I was refering to was that the person in question stated that he fitted 3 heating systems to which a gas connection has to be made and the boiler then needs to be commissioned by a qualified tradesperson all of which can't be done by a DIY'er. Any pipe destined to be filled with gas has to be fitted by a CORGI registered installer, it can not be fitted by joe public and then be just connected and tested.