Why do people keep putting P1's down?
07 October 2002, 10:41 AM
#32
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Simon,
im amazed that you didnt go hunting for one of Prodrives STi6's then
now you could have taken that to any Subaru dealer and they would have been quite happy to service it for you
Like i have stated though, i think the P1 is an excellent car, but it was suppose to be the best impreza, it didnt meet this mark though so it was a let down
There are better out of the factory scoobs than the P1, something that shouldnt have happened or been expected and why oh why did they strip out items like the climate control and shove the manual a/c in instead? 
because to me it should have retained pretty much all of the standard equipment (except radio which wouldnt have worked very well without conversion).
I think that when the P1 was thought up, it should have just been left to Prodrive to design, but no doubt im thinking along with others, there was politics involved, this wouldnt have helped
Tony
im amazed that you didnt go hunting for one of Prodrives STi6's then
now you could have taken that to any Subaru dealer and they would have been quite happy to service it for you Like i have stated though, i think the P1 is an excellent car, but it was suppose to be the best impreza, it didnt meet this mark though so it was a let down
There are better out of the factory scoobs than the P1, something that shouldnt have happened or been expected
and why oh why did they strip out items like the climate control and shove the manual a/c in instead? because to me it should have retained pretty much all of the standard equipment (except radio which wouldnt have worked very well without conversion).I think that when the P1 was thought up, it should have just been left to Prodrive to design, but no doubt im thinking along with others, there was politics involved, this wouldnt have helped
Tony
07 October 2002, 10:53 AM
#34
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"this is broken, please fix it"
Trouble is, this happened far too often with my P1 and Subaru 'tried' to fix it four times and couldn't / wouldn't. Their arrogance was appalling, their treatment of my car was atrocious and I only got a front spoiler respray after complaining to IM.
Prodrive are an engineering company and a very good one, but car finishers / builders they are not. Ever wonder why there was never a P2. STi Prodrive Style doesn't count.
I went for an Evo 6 TME 12 months ago and it's outstanding. A limited edition, built like a tank and Mitsubishi have been amazing. They spilt some brake fluid on my caliper at the last service and a week later all the lacquer had come off. I drove up there in full 'I'm not going to stand for this' mode. I turn up, service manager comes out, looks at the caliper and says "That's clearly our fault when we changed the fluid, I'll put one on order and replace it next week"
The STi PPP looks like the best Subaru option to me at the mo', well next year once the bug eye dies. I just hope Subaru's attitude changes... I may even come back to the fold one day. I have very fond memories of my MY98 and 99 cars. In my experience the P1 was a compromised, under specced, expensive, string and sellotape car.
Trouble is, this happened far too often with my P1 and Subaru 'tried' to fix it four times and couldn't / wouldn't. Their arrogance was appalling, their treatment of my car was atrocious and I only got a front spoiler respray after complaining to IM.
Prodrive are an engineering company and a very good one, but car finishers / builders they are not. Ever wonder why there was never a P2. STi Prodrive Style doesn't count.
I went for an Evo 6 TME 12 months ago and it's outstanding. A limited edition, built like a tank and Mitsubishi have been amazing. They spilt some brake fluid on my caliper at the last service and a week later all the lacquer had come off. I drove up there in full 'I'm not going to stand for this' mode. I turn up, service manager comes out, looks at the caliper and says "That's clearly our fault when we changed the fluid, I'll put one on order and replace it next week"
The STi PPP looks like the best Subaru option to me at the mo', well next year once the bug eye dies. I just hope Subaru's attitude changes... I may even come back to the fold one day. I have very fond memories of my MY98 and 99 cars. In my experience the P1 was a compromised, under specced, expensive, string and sellotape car.
07 October 2002, 11:41 AM
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Marty
This used to get on my nerves as well when I had my P1, just learn't not to worry about it....as long as you are happy then that is all I would worry about. My P1 was written off, I now have an STi7 Prodrive, I wouldn't have traded the P1 in for the Sti7 or anything except a F355... so that says it all in my opinion.
Loved mine, miss it like mad, moved on now but left with 15 months and 22k miles of excellent memories.
Enjoy and don't worry....
Cheers for now....
Phil
This used to get on my nerves as well when I had my P1, just learn't not to worry about it....as long as you are happy then that is all I would worry about. My P1 was written off, I now have an STi7 Prodrive, I wouldn't have traded the P1 in for the Sti7 or anything except a F355... so that says it all in my opinion.
Loved mine, miss it like mad, moved on now but left with 15 months and 22k miles of excellent memories.
Enjoy and don't worry....
Cheers for now....
Phil
07 October 2002, 11:46 AM
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Well, looking at the price of P1 on the dealer forecourts, there's not a huge difference in price between the more subtle version of the STI VII and a second hand P1.
Lots of people would rather a new car for 26k than a used one for 23-24k. PPP can always come later
Like Clarkson, I have to admit to thinking the new model is a bit of a mess lookswise (I think pig's backside was what he said in paper) though I'd happily have either, but can't justify the outlay.
07 October 2002, 01:39 PM
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Re: comments about learning to drive "properly" in a typeR. I personally found the type R diff control system a very big pain. I dont profess to be an excellent driver but a capable one. If you want bags of oversteer then go get a typeR but on a wet twisty road the P1 comes into its own agaist a typeR, which is what an impreza is all about isnt it? The P1 is miles more sure footed, and capable in that situation. Having to mess about with diff controls and try and keep the car in a straight line is more of a hinderence than an aid as far as im concerned. I drive my car everyday in all weathers, i dont roll it out for an odd track day or a sunny sunday.
Ex-typeR owner and happier P1 owner
Ex-typeR owner and happier P1 owner
07 October 2002, 03:37 PM
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Dpends entirely on what you like car handling wise
Me, I like a bit of tail end action ooooh er
So would prefer an AWD with a rear bias or RWD, I have driven FWD cars and I do like them, but they are just not as much fun......anf this is, guess what?
This is all IMHO
Me, I like a bit of tail end action ooooh er
So would prefer an AWD with a rear bias or RWD, I have driven FWD cars and I do like them, but they are just not as much fun......anf this is, guess what?This is all IMHO
07 October 2002, 04:02 PM
#42
you can make the TypeR/RA as neutral, and even more understeery than a P1 if you wind the diff forward far enough. It is an infinately superior setup once you understand it, thats why its on the car.
I drive mine every single day, put almost 10K miles on it in 5 months.
I drive mine every single day, put almost 10K miles on it in 5 months.
07 October 2002, 04:51 PM
#44
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If you wind the lock forward you are in danger of knackering the whole system, also the ride very noticibly gets worse and the car hops and skips around corners. I would wholeheartedly disagree that the diff system is an infinately superior set up for an EVERYDAY car. The diff set up is for use on rally stages where either snow or gravel is present, its not much use at all to a normal driver on a normal road.
07 October 2002, 06:01 PM
#46
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The only P1 issue I thought was a bit off was you spent all that money on "the best Scooby you could buy in the UK" and then a few months later they released the WR version with bigger wheels and better brakes and some other tweaks. What was that all about?
I think the answer to all these questions is horses for courses. Everyone has different tastes, likes and dislikes and we should all live and let live.
I for one have driven neither a P1 or an STI type R/RA etc etc therefore I can only comment on looks... I personally don't like the P1 bumper lip and it's front heavy tail in the air look, but then I don't like the yellow STi either so what's a Cat owner to do?
I think the answer to all these questions is horses for courses. Everyone has different tastes, likes and dislikes and we should all live and let live.
I for one have driven neither a P1 or an STI type R/RA etc etc therefore I can only comment on looks... I personally don't like the P1 bumper lip and it's front heavy tail in the air look, but then I don't like the yellow STi either so what's a Cat owner to do?
07 October 2002, 06:27 PM
#47
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Personally, I really like the P1 but for that money, would probably have bought something else, probably an STi 5 Type RA V-Ltd and a sports bike to boot
I love the handling of the RA and the centre diff is great - I used to drive Scott's RA in the wet with it full back almost all the time, I didn't think it was that taily, and think the handling is spot on!!! IMHO, there is no difference to the ride quality (but then on the road you should only ever wind it forward two clicks from full back).
The mods I'd do to the P1 are pretty much the same mods I'd do to the STi (Bump Steer/Geom, Eibachs (possibly not on the P1), ALK, roll bar/links/bushes, Exhaust, brakes). On the warranty point, fair enough except my experience of friends treatment by IM is far from "if it breaks, they'll fix it". More like, "if it breaks, and you argue with the dealer and several people at IM for serveral weeks, they might fix it" 
(Obviously, warranty quality is very variable from dealer to dealer, and what your problem is).
I to answer the original question, I think people knock the P1 because:
1. It was (in my and many others opinion), from new, overpriced
2. It was billed as the ultimate Scoob (which it is not)
3. It was (IMHO) an STi which was spoilt
4. A lot of owners (mainly not on this board and not Scoob "fans" look down on all other Scoobs because they bought the "ultimate scoob" marketing line....
5. The "Limited Edition" became less limited
6. It was very late
7. It had real problems with bodywork (which on a £31.5k car is just not on)
8. It had no radio
I think the P1 was up until that time, the best UK spec Scoob but could have been so much more and was ruined by whoever took the good STi stuff off!
Obviously, all just IMHO.
Matt
I love the handling of the RA and the centre diff is great - I used to drive Scott's RA in the wet with it full back almost all the time, I didn't think it was that taily, and think the handling is spot on!!! IMHO, there is no difference to the ride quality (but then on the road you should only ever wind it forward two clicks from full back).
The mods I'd do to the P1 are pretty much the same mods I'd do to the STi (Bump Steer/Geom, Eibachs (possibly not on the P1
), ALK, roll bar/links/bushes, Exhaust, brakes). On the warranty point, fair enough except my experience of friends treatment by IM is far from "if it breaks, they'll fix it". More like, "if it breaks, and you argue with the dealer and several people at IM for serveral weeks, they might fix it" (Obviously, warranty quality is very variable from dealer to dealer, and what your problem is).I to answer the original question, I think people knock the P1 because:
1. It was (in my and many others opinion), from new, overpriced
2. It was billed as the ultimate Scoob (which it is not)
3. It was (IMHO) an STi which was spoilt
4. A lot of owners (mainly not on this board and not Scoob "fans" look down on all other Scoobs because they bought the "ultimate scoob" marketing line....
5. The "Limited Edition" became less limited
6. It was very late
7. It had real problems with bodywork (which on a £31.5k car is just not on)
8. It had no radio
I think the P1 was up until that time, the best UK spec Scoob but could have been so much more and was ruined by whoever took the good STi stuff off!
Obviously, all just IMHO.
Matt
07 October 2002, 09:33 PM
#48
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I love mine but i still want more power, and it is down to people being jealous.
Its funny because you dont get people slagging the sti 5 off and it is based around this model.
Its funny because you dont get people slagging the sti 5 off and it is based around this model.
08 October 2002, 01:19 AM
#49
why oh why oh why is this myth out there that using the centre diff control in anything other than snow/gravel with **** it?
Utter, utter nonsense! and no, you dont have to keep it in the first two bands of adjustment either!
i went to the trouble of having the japanese handbook properly translated by a guy i know in Tokyo, this is much clearer in its description of how to use the control and what actions will damage it and what actions wont than the translated manual you can buy.
I also had the service interval section properly translated too, there are certain things you have to do more regularly on the typeR/RA than a normal scoob which ensure you dont **** the centre diff.
I also happen to drive the thing in a way that eploits its potential properly, it is a very effective tool on the road and can improve many aspects of driving such as increasing rear brake bias via the centre LSD effect and thus giving higher retardation than if you left the centre diff open.
They rally TypeRA's on tarmac too you know! The centre diff is not just a loose surface tool, the pity is those that havent spent the time/effort to learn how to use it say its $hit, which isnt the case at all. Educate yourself for gods sake, not everything worthwhile is obvious or easy, and in that statement i dont mean learn to drive, you bought an import with no english language information on its non UK type systems, so go and bloody well find out what the japanese driver is being told about how to operate the car. Knowledge is everything in life, go get some.
Utter, utter nonsense! and no, you dont have to keep it in the first two bands of adjustment either!
i went to the trouble of having the japanese handbook properly translated by a guy i know in Tokyo, this is much clearer in its description of how to use the control and what actions will damage it and what actions wont than the translated manual you can buy.
I also had the service interval section properly translated too, there are certain things you have to do more regularly on the typeR/RA than a normal scoob which ensure you dont **** the centre diff.
I also happen to drive the thing in a way that eploits its potential properly, it is a very effective tool on the road and can improve many aspects of driving such as increasing rear brake bias via the centre LSD effect and thus giving higher retardation than if you left the centre diff open.
They rally TypeRA's on tarmac too you know! The centre diff is not just a loose surface tool, the pity is those that havent spent the time/effort to learn how to use it say its $hit, which isnt the case at all. Educate yourself for gods sake, not everything worthwhile is obvious or easy, and in that statement i dont mean learn to drive, you bought an import with no english language information on its non UK type systems, so go and bloody well find out what the japanese driver is being told about how to operate the car. Knowledge is everything in life, go get some.
08 October 2002, 01:48 AM
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Why do people keep putting P1's down?
I echo John with the adjustable center diff - it's very useful
I know probably a 1/10 if that about the fecking thing, but it makes for VERY enjoyable driving
08 October 2002, 10:27 AM
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John,
can you send me a copy of this translated info and also possibly the increased service requirement lark?
Not that I have a car that drives, but it would be nice to know what to do when I get it back!
can you send me a copy of this translated info and also possibly the increased service requirement lark?
Not that I have a car that drives, but it would be nice to know what to do when I get it back!
08 October 2002, 10:54 AM
#53
9. They sold the uprated brake kit with DS3000 brake pads which is not a road compatible pad, this knackered the wheels and screwed the paint making your 30K car look like a shed with a major rust issue!
10. They sold it in an incomplete spec, without the correct rear spoiler, so owners had to take their car back to the dealers for a swap.
11. It doesnt have the R180 rear diff, 2 pot rear brakes, larger driveshafts, bigger wheel bearings making it less strong than the STi TypeR/RA
12. It didnt come with a quickrack, an essential high performance car fitment IMHO.
It is still a great car though!
10. They sold it in an incomplete spec, without the correct rear spoiler, so owners had to take their car back to the dealers for a swap.
11. It doesnt have the R180 rear diff, 2 pot rear brakes, larger driveshafts, bigger wheel bearings making it less strong than the STi TypeR/RA
12. It didnt come with a quickrack, an essential high performance car fitment IMHO.
It is still a great car though!
08 October 2002, 02:33 PM
#56
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It is certainly alot lot slower than my cossie. who on earth would pay 30k for a sad max power subaru lets make 500 no funk it lets make 1000 no we will build a million who cares they are naff anyway.
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