CRAFT

I'm with ptholt on this one, we're a bit worried at the mo, and we don't want ****** like you saying "I told u so" we got an import cause at the time we couldn't stretch to the price of a UK, I always thought this community supported other members, but obviously I was wrong and you're right, it is a free country......and you two are ****in' muppets

C.

Rebecca

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by chiark:
<B>Definitely don't panic, especially as grey Imprezas are too "low end" compared to what these guys are normally dealing in.

It seems to me that BBC is guilty of a gross act of crass sensationalist journalism and panic-mongering.

At the start of the programme, it is stated that 100,000 cars have been stolen in Japan in the last 3 years.

At the end, we have Andrew, the "victim turned crusader" telling us that there could be 100,000 cars in the UK that are stolen from Japan.

That's every one in the last 3 years turning up as a ringer over here then?

His opinion is skewed - he's working for the Japanese insurance firms, so it's now his job to talk up the figures as he'll be taking a commission.

Or perhaps he's doing it because he's such a nice guy?

The BBC has found a bit of a story (there's no doubt about that) and made it into headlines by pumping it for days. No matter how much you hype something, if the facts don't add up fully then that's just damn annoying.

What really gets my goat is that my license money</B> has paid for that greasy, slimy, "I told you so" smarmy turkey to live it up in Dubai and Japan, thinking he's a big shot by talking to someone who claims to be an "ex" big shot. "Yeah, I was with the Yakuza but I don't like to talk about it. Oh go on then, I'll talk..." It just wouldn't happen.

Quite a lot of it was pants, but there definitely appears to be a problem. I would have to side with the BIMTA as to how big the problem actually is...

Still, what's the value in this form of journalism?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Afraid I don't agree with you on this one... it seems you only wanted to hear the sensationalist bits .... they also spoke to the motor traders association and talked about the figures they thought were really imported ... which was very small.

Also at the end of the programme he very clearly said... don't panic ... the chances of your Japanese import being nicked are very small ....

for heaven's sake ... wouldn't you rather be made aware of the fact that there is a problem out there so you can be on your guard ... or would you rather it was kept quiet ..... and then find yourself a victim?

Squizz

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Richard Askew:
<B>Slower - yes[/quote]

Slower , yours - NO!

I also noticed the Skyline/Scoob/Skyline bit of dodgy editing, which begs the question - WHY?

Luckily it seems only to be high-yield top of the range 4x4's that are the big risks rather than our "scutty" scoobs! Dubai is 4x4 mad, and if it's not a 4x4 its gotta be a Mercedes of some kind or they're not interested... Good job, eh?!

Fingers crossed no-one here falls foul.



[This message has been edited by Squizz (edited 26 July 2001).]

Chris L

Even as a UK Scoob owner - that program worried me (ignorant people tarring all Japanese cars with the same brush?? wonder what that will do to residual values??). Some of the program was certainly sensationalistic - but that is just the way of the world. If it had just been Quentin on his own, then I would agree with most comments here, but the involvement of the police to a large degree in the programme does start to make me think.

Whilst I doubt the figure is the 100000 vehicles claimed I also doubt the bloke from the Independent traders assoc who said it was no more than 3000. They did focus a lot on the big 4x4, but don't be fooled that this doesn't include a lot of Subarus. Last time I looked, a one or two year old import STi6 was a damn sight more than 10 grand. This is about supply and demand. Scoobies and Evos have been incredibly popular over the last few years, which means they have been grey imported in quite large numbers. If I owned an grey import, bought over in the last 24 months or so, I would be very concerned.

If doesn't give me any pleasure to write this post (and I really hope I'm wrong), but there is something telling me, that there are going to be a large number of very unhappy people out there.

Rich - agree with Pete and others -this isn't the time to be gloating over other peoples (potential) misfortune.

Chris

chiark

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Rebecca:
<B> Afraid I don't agree with you on this one... it seems you only wanted to hear the sensationalist bits .... they also spoke to the motor traders association and talked about the figures they thought were really imported ... which was very small.[/quote]

It was nearly all sensationalist bits! It was "aren't we great, we found all this out, look at the BBC being wonderful and scaring the **** out of you".

The figures don't add up. That's surely basic journalism?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>
Also at the end of the programme he very clearly said... don't panic ... the chances of your Japanese import being nicked are very small ....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That wasn't exactly the message they're giving out for the rest of the programme.

Although I must admit that they did their best to then play it down. That bit was most definitely added well after the program was edited, and looked to me to be something that someone with a clue insisted they added to the programme before it went out.

Incidentally, the Ceefax page 622 contains a letter from Quentin which actually is quite good. Why they didn't take that approach in the programme is beyond me. Oh, no it isn't - sensationalism is the reason.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>for heaven's sake ... wouldn't you rather be made aware of the fact that there is a problem out there so you can be on your guard ... or would you rather it was kept quiet ..... and then find yourself a victim?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree wholeheartedly, but I do object to having it rammed down my throat that a Japanese import is likely to be stolen. No small caveat at the end of the programme excuses that sensationalism.

Reasoned debate on scoobynet? What is the world coming to!

Particularly liked the way the nissan Skyline owner had an STI engine in his car. Now that's top quality editing again.

I do wonder if Mitsubishi and Subaru said, "mention our cars and you're toast...", otherwise why would they have clips of a Subaru engine and not a glimse of the car?

Adam B

So has anyone here actually been stung ?

I noticed on the land cruisers (I think) they were checking VIN numbers on various parts of the car. Anyone know if/where these are on a scoob ? (yes apart from the VIN plate under the bonnet )

Adam
(Slightly worried owner of a 5 month old RA .....)

Markus

Ronnie,
Thanks for putting my mind even more at rest. I spoke to the chap who actually imported my car yesterday and he said that it was not nicked, he's getting me the full paperwork for it when his boss gets back. he explained how the dubai thing worked (this was before the programme) and basically said the same as Chiark, my car is too cheap to be worth stealing, he said that they'd make maybe 1500 quid on my motor and when you consider they'd be making 10 - 20 thou on the land cruisers 1500 quid aint worth it.

The thing I find interesting about this is that I've read the stuff on ceefax (page 622 and 620 on BBC1) and to check the car out you can go to your local dealer, take your V5, pay 25 quid and they'll check it out for you.

What i'd like to know is, is IM going to allow this? does this not constitue breaking their rule about not touching greys? any dealers want to comment on this?

thanks again ronnie, I do feel even better now.

JAMES BUSHELL

One MOODY program. I watched it on video last night, and paid a visit to the engine bay of my WRX with a torch 5 seconds later. All apears to be ok!!!!!!??!!!!!!

I wouldn't be surprised if prices now took a hammering.

If you do have an import make sure you don't have square reg plates on it! There's less chance of getting a tug of the plod then...

James

JoeyDeacon

I loved the bit where Quentin went to Dubai with his hidden camera and said "I am going to be playing the part of a crooked car dealer"

erm, not much acting required there then Quentin!

Disco

It seems to me that 'The biggest car fraud in the world' was actually the fact that UK based dealers were actually able to buy these cars up cheap after repossession at auction!

Trouser

An interesting point is all of us that have finance on import cars with reputable companies...

Under UK law, the car is their property until you have paid it all anyway.. god forbid.. if your car is found to be stolen.. It is then their problem. It is their responsibilty to check provenance of vehicles. You will still obviously lose payments you have made up to that date... but not the outstanding amount. A very small comfort I s'pose..

Arron

Renaldo,
You said if you were worried to take your car to the police station to be checked , but I'm sure you will agree 8 out of 10 imported cars are running full systems ( ie no cats ) which is illegal in the uk, so if you did i'm sure some jobs worth would pick up on it if they are as hot as the program said last night.So this means put your old system back on, but if you don't have your old system that's a problem.
With the clamp down on the motorist I see this could be a nightmare.

Other people views appreciated.

DavidBrown

I'm with SasMan & Rich on this one..

While I sympathise with anyone losing their beloved imports due to this scam, the UK-spec Scooby owners have been subject to the smugness of import owner's:

"haha - I've got a faster car and saved shed loads - you UK owning fools"

(well that's the attitude that comes across a lot of the time)

So why can't the UK-spec owners rejoice the advantages of their choice ?

My main reason for getting a new UK-spec car was so because I didn't buy a 2-cars welded together, or one ready to go *phut* (OK,OK, there are warranty companies, but my times too valuable to go chasing up a warranty company while my car's off the road)

You pays yer money, you takes yer chances.

I honestly hope none of you guys who've imported lose your cars. Fingers crossed

[This message has been edited by DavidBrown (edited 26 July 2001).]

RonaldoH

Arron, cats are the least of peoples worries at the mo. I just suggested that IF anyone wanted to know-The Police would help. So if your car is not conforming to the road and traffic regulations then thats your bag- I am sure a traffic officer is not going to demand a CO test at an MOT centre, and if they do you get 7 days to get it sorted-It should cost only a fiver at the mot centre to get that confirmed that you have the cats back on.

As for the people giving the Import owners grief or banter-Its not nice that some people on here saved hard, worked even harder and have their pride and joy-Because of this program and the current situation, this could be left in tatters. Sure, a UK car is a definate winner in this mixed up problem-However, imagine if your STi5/WRX/22B/MX5 etc etc is not stolen and legitimate-Its only going to increase your cars value against the "moody" ones.

I am going to see what I can do through my Dads mate, and perhaps something like an official Police document for your own files to say that the car is checked out and not stolen-hence aiding you when selling or buying in future....what do we think?

Regards
Ronnie

[This message has been edited by RonaldoH (edited 26 July 2001).]

chiark

The BBC website suggests approaching Subaru dealers, paying 25 quid and having them check the VIN, etc against this "japanese database".

Go on, who'll be the first to try that then? I doubt they'd get past the japanese import detecting self deploying stingers that IM have insisted franchise dealers fit...

TRIGGER

This program was a confused mix of messages - first we are being told that hundreds of thousands of stolen cars are in the Uk, then we hear it isnt that big and not to worry. First they tell us they have definite proof then it just comes down to wishy washy numbers !

Also how on earth can the police look at a Land Cruiser and decide it must be one stolen from Japan. It's rubbish - they can only do spot checks and then find out as the british regs are not going to tell them - all this knocking on peoples doors was so manufactured it's untrue.

My import came from a reputable dealer with all the paperwork showing where it was bought and even with original owners documents too - so I am safe. Most people will be safe, as most cars are bought through the Japanese auctions system. It's pretty easy to find out if the car you are looking at came from Japan or via Dubai anyway - and if the dealer cant show you proof then walk away. But this is nothing new - there is far more fraud on Uk cars with clocking etc anyway.

Grey import knocking is far too easy - if Sasman etc are happy over paying for slower vehicles that's their loss and they can feel as smug as they like. Of course I'll just laugh all the harder when they complain about their lowered residuals.

Dr Hu

IM (and their dealers) ONLY know about cars they personally imported direct from FHI. You can talk to them until you are blue in the face about a jap import but it could be made of chocolate as far as they know.

IM just hasn't got the details of EVERY single car FHI have manufactured and why should they have???? Basically it's not their problem......good or bad

You would have to talk to FHI directly I suppose to get any info at all in the UK. IM will not want to know.......

Markus

I'm with Chiark on this, i'd like to know the official stance dealers will take about checking grey cars.

as for uk geezers slagging off us import owners, that's not very nice. I have a jap import, not because it's faster than uk spec, it's not, its one of the first wagons, thus has same performance as UK spec, so ner nicky ner ner . I got the import because money was tight and I wanted a scoob, and at the time uk cars of the same age were really tatty and the nice ones were too much. Yes, I may in retrospect have been a fool for getting a jap, but hey, that kinda sums me up

obi

so..there may be between 3 and 100 thousand stolen 'greys' predominately large 4 x4's and the police are going to find them and confiscate. what happens then? they become the property of the insurance company who will need to dispose of them to recoup some of their money. they're hardley likely to ship them back to japan because there's no market there so they'll have a choice. store them or dump them on the auction circuit. what effect will mass dumping have on the value of all 4x4's be they grey or uk sourced when thousands can be legally bought at auction
just as with the chap with the RX one feels that unlucky buyers of these cars may be able to negociate very good deals with the insurance companies.

Olly

Looks like its just another excuse for an import-versus-UK war yet again..

Personally I think that the program was a ratings ploy against Martin n' Sallys camping trip.

[This message has been edited by Olly (edited 26 July 2001).]

ptholt

I have to say the attitudes of certain people on this bbs has disapointed me over the last couple of days.
I always thought this was a nice pleasant community where we all had a common interest in scoobs.

Seems theres a nice little niche in import bainting going on and to be honest its about as funny as me saying to someone who's just had there car nicked, well mines in the garage, all alarmed nice and safe and with a free fitted navtrack coming ner ner ner ner.

On a slightly different note, a good police officer friend of mine is a police qualified vehicle checking officer. I'm attempting to arrange if he would accompany me to some of the south east meets (or we can just meet individuals locally) for anyone who is really worried about the originality of there scoob.
This will be on a totally 'off-duty' capacity just to put some minds at rest for those that desire it.

I've been with him checking out cars in the past and he can age and check vehicles from items such as ash trays, windscreens, seat belts, check the vin's etc.

Let me know if anyone is interested in using this facility and i'll arrange it as best i can.

On another different note, those that have imports on finance that are stolen, your first port of call should be the finance company to tell them that you wish to reject the car on a 'merchantable quality claim'.
Basically any vehicle purchased on finance has to be of 'merchantable quality', obviously one thats been stolen should not fall into this category.
A succesful claim on the above should see the return of all paid installments inclusing interest. (though not your deposit im affraid).

I have been through the above process with a motorcycle in the past, and while not the best thing at least you have some recourse to recoup some money.

Those that have paid cash are in a slightly poorer position with your option to be to take the dealer/individual you purchased the vehicle from to court. They will obviously plead they had no knowledge of this which could prove messy. Sounds like a long and nasty court case to me.

Markus

pholt,
if your buddy is willing to do it then I'd welcome him having a look at my car, just so I can be 100 percent sure it's a good un.

Glad to see that IM *is* going to co-operate in this matter, big thumbs up to them fo not just ignoring greys. Maybe they are hoping we'll all sell our greys and buy UK specs because of this?

MARKIE C

Hi everyone

No disrespect to anyone who owns an import but I am glad this program has been aired as the import market has diluted the price of uk cars over the years. Hopefully the retail valve of uk cars will return to a more reasonable price and imports will fall by the wayside. Again I do not wish to upset anyone but at the end of the day people who wish to play with fire should wear fire proof gloves. I an glad I spent more and bought a uk car because it does not matter how many checks you carryout on a car before you buy it, it only takes one routee check by a police officer and you'll be catching the bus and be a mimimum of 10 geees out of pocket. One last thing, how many import owners have chuckled at poeple who bought uk cars and boasted on how much they had saved in comparison. He who laughs last laughs best.

Mark

Mark.

ptholt

Well done Markie, exactly the sort of person i talked about in my post above.

Mines not a stolen one, but i have sympathy and am trying to help those that are worried.
you on the other hand are just wasting bandwidth with comments like that.

Do you honestly believe that imports killed the residual of the scoob?
do you not think being one of the most stolen cars in the uk did it?
having insurance costs like a telephone number?

If you speak to any normal car dealer they will tell you that imports were a good excuse to lower car residuals all round.
You should still get sensible money for a uk car, whereas a wrx will be well behind book. What imports gained by being cheap at the front end, they loose at the back end.

DazW

iTrader: (1)

Markie, are you serious? - Did the UK market really suffer that much due to cheap Grey's? If youre right then watch your residuals drop thru the floor my friend, because greys, whether straight or not, are going to become even cheaper! and even more of a bargain!

Richard Askew

(sleeping easy 2nite cos I gotta UK car )
Slower - yes
Nicked in Japan - no

yer pays ya wedge ya takes ya choice

Floyd

iTrader: (9)

Rich

You smart ****!

That's not going to help the grey's feel any better 'cos even if they aren't stolen everyone will steer well clear for quite some time due to that prog. I guess any UK car will be OK though and it'll probably aid our part of the market (people with UK cars).

Not sure about the EU cars - still could have some residual effect on the nervous buyer, it would have to be a tempting price to entice!

F

scooby nutter

What has Quentin got against grey imports??
Does he get paid by the uk motor dealerships cos this is his second program slating japanese imports.
His first one was a few years ago saying dont buy a import,cant get parts ,insurance etc etc.now its this one .The car market is bad enough let alone this B**"£it!!!!!

So thanks for F*"£%ng the grey import sector up once again my man.

Hope you only got £20000 for that program A"!£*le!!!

GaryC

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by scooby nutter:
<B>What has Quentin got against grey imports??
Does he get paid by the uk motor dealerships cos this is his second program slating japanese imports.
His first one was a few years ago saying dont buy a import,cant get parts ,insurance etc etc.now its this one .The car market is bad enough let alone this B**"£it!!!!!

So thanks for F*"£%ng the grey import sector up once again my man.

Hope you only got £20000 for that program A"!£*le!!![/quote]

Quentin started as being one of the champions of the grey import - and is credited as being one of the key people to put pressure on the UK motor trade to reduce prices!

It is all very well to whine about UK owners gloating, but in the 16 months I owned a (UK) impreza, I have 16 months of EU impreza owners 'gloating' and calling me stupid for paying 'over the odds', and Jap import owners friendly sarcasm digging at my 'slow' model

When I sold my car (and lost £12500 in 16 months ) I had dozens of smug import owners revelling in my 'misfortune' - and my price WAS affected by imports - many people who came to look at it, wouldn't touch it at over £15k as they reckoned they could get a new one for the same money

Don't now starting whigning as you are getting your own medicine It is cruel to mock someones misfortune - but do as you would be done to


Saying that - I do feel for owners who have had to buy 2nd hand Jap cars in order to get their 'first rung on the ladder' of one of the greatest cars in the world, and sincerely hope no-one loses money/car over this It stinks, but then what about owning/running a car in this country doesn't

merlin

I wonder if Quentin had wind of this scam along time ago and changed his tune about greys in an effort to stop people buying dodgy motors - just a thought...