BHP per tonne same question different BBS
12 July 2001, 03:40 PM
#123
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Cem, i destroyed the said car in the MK II.
Absolutly, pushed him and pushed him some more then came in for the kill.
Now i know i have more power but all these people who think my car doesn't handle...
Well, for a 25year old setup (suspension setup) I certainly didn't get beat...
No bull either mate, i can drive very fast down the lanes as i have been living in the stick's for all of my early drving years..
[This message has been edited by dingy (edited 12 July 2001).]
Absolutly, pushed him and pushed him some more then came in for the kill.
Now i know i have more power but all these people who think my car doesn't handle...
Well, for a 25year old setup (suspension setup) I certainly didn't get beat...
No bull either mate, i can drive very fast down the lanes as i have been living in the stick's for all of my early drving years..
[This message has been edited by dingy (edited 12 July 2001).]
12 July 2001, 03:52 PM
#124
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Cem, when you coming to some decent roads again?
PS Will nobody actually own up to being overtaken at Donington all those months ago whilst the Birdmeister was at the wheel?
Silver Evo did end up on the grass as did Stef.
Silver Evo had a little bloke in it with flames from the pipe.
He did try hard but on his school report it showed must tyr harder or go back to school for another term to learn about longitudail grip
Pete from SS also felt the wrath of the blue beast and we out braked him into Foggy`s and we got standard **** brakes.
The shedline is a mother and gets faster evrytime I drive it.
Like I said a long time ago it out drags my P1 with all its mods and octane bull5hit etc.
That takes into consideration power to weight and all that bo11ox.
My car is lighter and circa 300 horse i guess.
so his circa 400 horse and more weight tells me its pretty quick coupled with awsome corner speed........just needs better brakes
Oh and for you tecno heads ity peaks at 1.39 bar and holds about 1.1
I like it a lot.
And i want one.
But for now the Bmer will have to do till I drop an M5 engine in
PS Will nobody actually own up to being overtaken at Donington all those months ago whilst the Birdmeister was at the wheel?
Silver Evo did end up on the grass as did Stef.
Silver Evo had a little bloke in it with flames from the pipe.
He did try hard but on his school report it showed must tyr harder or go back to school for another term to learn about longitudail grip
Pete from SS also felt the wrath of the blue beast and we out braked him into Foggy`s and we got standard **** brakes.
The shedline is a mother and gets faster evrytime I drive it.
Like I said a long time ago it out drags my P1 with all its mods and octane bull5hit etc.
That takes into consideration power to weight and all that bo11ox.
My car is lighter and circa 300 horse i guess.
so his circa 400 horse and more weight tells me its pretty quick coupled with awsome corner speed........just needs better brakes
Oh and for you tecno heads ity peaks at 1.39 bar and holds about 1.1
I like it a lot.
And i want one.
But for now the Bmer will have to do till I drop an M5 engine in
12 July 2001, 04:13 PM
#125
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I have no doubt in my mind whatsoever that the Escort, the Skyline and the Exige is a superior track car to the Subaru or Evo, for example. The Evos/Subarus forte is on the rally stages, hence its unrivalled success over the past number of years.
What you all seem to lack, however, is the ability to recognise the strengths in each others cars. By downgrading almost every car bar your own, you end up upsetting quite a few people on the board.
I feel sorry for Dingy, actually. An interesting post has turned into a slanging match again. It is fun, but there may be a chance dingy will become notorious for inadvertantly starting derogatory threads
Arron, I really really miss the B660. Unfortuantely, we were witness to a frightening car accident there from someone in our party and frankly, it has put us all off for a while
I will return though.
Cem
What you all seem to lack, however, is the ability to recognise the strengths in each others cars. By downgrading almost every car bar your own, you end up upsetting quite a few people on the board.
I feel sorry for Dingy, actually. An interesting post has turned into a slanging match again. It is fun, but there may be a chance dingy will become notorious for inadvertantly starting derogatory threads
Arron, I really really miss the B660. Unfortuantely, we were witness to a frightening car accident there from someone in our party and frankly, it has put us all off for a while
I will return though.
Cem
12 July 2001, 04:43 PM
#126
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Right, i didnt have time to read the entire thread, but one thing it seemed to be missing. Power at flywheel per tonne is so irrelevant.
A scooby could have a decent power at flywheel per tonne, random example 240/1300*1000 = 184 bhp flywheel per tonne
but at the wheels the subaru might have 175
175/1300*1000 = 134 at the wheels per tonne.
cos if its not at the wheels its not making u go forward... and as such is totally useless.
im on 195/1040*1000 = 187.5 at the wheels per tonne and this is full interior half tank and me as a driver.
Remember if it aint at the wheels it aint helping u go forward
rw
A scooby could have a decent power at flywheel per tonne, random example 240/1300*1000 = 184 bhp flywheel per tonne
but at the wheels the subaru might have 175
175/1300*1000 = 134 at the wheels per tonne.
cos if its not at the wheels its not making u go forward... and as such is totally useless.
im on 195/1040*1000 = 187.5 at the wheels per tonne and this is full interior half tank and me as a driver.
Remember if it aint at the wheels it aint helping u go forward
rw
12 July 2001, 05:45 PM
#127
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Cem, there are many great cars and yes I totally agree they all do different things very well.
My ideal car will not be everybody elses for sure.
For example my ideal car is an M5.
Why because I`ve got a family and I like a bit of room and a few creature comforts.
Its the price tag that puts me off.
The problem with a lot of cars such as the P1 and Evo etc people love, and I still love, the outright speed and potential to eat miles quick. It just doesnt have a great deal else to offer.
I chose to buy the new M3 because its an ace comfortable, quiet quick car thats sure to have a reasonable residual value in three years when I`ll look to out it.
But intersting comments nun the less.
The thing that pi55es me off is peeps with cars that to be honest are never going to match some of the cars previously mentioned in all areas.
Dingbats car is extremly fast in a straight line when he`s got his 165/70/13`s on but no matter how much money he throws at it its never gonna handle like a Makinen.
Were talking light years in terms of development years etc....
But I do admire his up front attitude and his constant striving to obtain his life long ambition to be THE MAN.
One day perhaps, until then I shall continue to read his posts with the humour I hope he intends to be typing.
My ideal car will not be everybody elses for sure.
For example my ideal car is an M5.
Why because I`ve got a family and I like a bit of room and a few creature comforts.
Its the price tag that puts me off.
The problem with a lot of cars such as the P1 and Evo etc people love, and I still love, the outright speed and potential to eat miles quick. It just doesnt have a great deal else to offer.
I chose to buy the new M3 because its an ace comfortable, quiet quick car thats sure to have a reasonable residual value in three years when I`ll look to out it.
But intersting comments nun the less.
The thing that pi55es me off is peeps with cars that to be honest are never going to match some of the cars previously mentioned in all areas.
Dingbats car is extremly fast in a straight line when he`s got his 165/70/13`s on but no matter how much money he throws at it its never gonna handle like a Makinen.
Were talking light years in terms of development years etc....
But I do admire his up front attitude and his constant striving to obtain his life long ambition to be THE MAN.
One day perhaps, until then I shall continue to read his posts with the humour I hope he intends to be typing.
12 July 2001, 05:48 PM
#128
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Simon
Thanks for your in depth reply
However.......while sitting on the throne curling one out earlier I happened to shift my weight to one side thus the logger that had been partially removed from my posterior suffered what appeared to be an almighty tankslapper. This unfortunately left a nasty residue which took some shifting. I can only presume that my rectum is producing richards' with a diameter that is not proportionally relational to the circumfrance of my but-cheeks, there by reducing the frictional co-efficient one normally experiences when dumping excess fuel through the rear pipe. Hope u can help me out of this sticky situation and provide me with some advice for future reference.
Cheers
Steve
p.s thought I would contribute to the degenerating content of this thread which should now be removed and exhibited in the curmet section along with all DINGY'S
other threads
Thanks for your in depth reply
However.......while sitting on the throne curling one out earlier I happened to shift my weight to one side thus the logger that had been partially removed from my posterior suffered what appeared to be an almighty tankslapper. This unfortunately left a nasty residue which took some shifting. I can only presume that my rectum is producing richards' with a diameter that is not proportionally relational to the circumfrance of my but-cheeks, there by reducing the frictional co-efficient one normally experiences when dumping excess fuel through the rear pipe. Hope u can help me out of this sticky situation and provide me with some advice for future reference.
Cheers
Steve
p.s thought I would contribute to the degenerating content of this thread which should now be removed and exhibited in the curmet section along with all DINGY'S
other threads
12 July 2001, 06:02 PM
#129
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W9 - LOL!!
Nice to see you and Arron contributing so selflessly to the good of the community as usual!
Your questions sounds like it had something to do with *wind* resistance anyway. But you can measure the amount of chemical locking you experienced by the size, colour and smell of the "skid mark".
Regards
Simon
Nice to see you and Arron contributing so selflessly to the good of the community as usual!
Your questions sounds like it had something to do with *wind* resistance anyway. But you can measure the amount of chemical locking you experienced by the size, colour and smell of the "skid mark".
Regards
Simon
12 July 2001, 06:13 PM
#131
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>FANCY A REMATCH???<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
too right, that was a right good laugh.
OK, carry on girls.
PS what lap times were we doing, i cant remember?
PPS. Dont forget you need to take into account the wheel width/tyre width ratio as that affects the max lateral load the tyre can sustain before deforming to a state where you lose contact patch maximum.
PPPS. I run crossply's on track. gold star to whoever can tell me why.
too right, that was a right good laugh.
OK, carry on girls.
PS what lap times were we doing, i cant remember?
PPS. Dont forget you need to take into account the wheel width/tyre width ratio as that affects the max lateral load the tyre can sustain before deforming to a state where you lose contact patch maximum.
PPPS. I run crossply's on track. gold star to whoever can tell me why.
12 July 2001, 06:34 PM
#133
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by ARRON BIRD:
<B>The thing that pi55es me off is peeps with cars that to be honest are never going to match some of the cars previously mentioned in all areas.
Dingbats car is extremly fast in a straight line when he`s got his 165/70/13`s on but no matter how much money he throws at it its never gonna handle like a Makinen.
[/quote]
Arron, that's one of the clearest posts that I've read from you where you actually explain your opinion - I know you won't care, but I think better of you after that.
Why should it "p155 you off" if someone tries to make their car better, no matter what the starting point? Dingy's car is an absolute beast and he loves it to bits. I'd love to have the knowledge and ability to do what he's done!
If he can keep the weight of the thing down, then surely making it handle will require less technology than it takes to make a heavy car handle so there's a good chance he's got it right?
Just thoughts. I like the banter other than when it gets too blinkered .
<B>The thing that pi55es me off is peeps with cars that to be honest are never going to match some of the cars previously mentioned in all areas.
Dingbats car is extremly fast in a straight line when he`s got his 165/70/13`s on but no matter how much money he throws at it its never gonna handle like a Makinen.
[/quote]
Arron, that's one of the clearest posts that I've read from you where you actually explain your opinion - I know you won't care, but I think better of you after that.
Why should it "p155 you off" if someone tries to make their car better, no matter what the starting point? Dingy's car is an absolute beast and he loves it to bits. I'd love to have the knowledge and ability to do what he's done!
If he can keep the weight of the thing down, then surely making it handle will require less technology than it takes to make a heavy car handle so there's a good chance he's got it right?
Just thoughts. I like the banter other than when it gets too blinkered
.
12 July 2001, 06:50 PM
#135
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>>Dingy's car is an absolute beast and he loves it to bits. I'd love to have the knowledge and ability to do what he's done!
Give that man a seegar !
Exactly how I feel about it chiark.
Give that man a seegar !
Exactly how I feel about it chiark.
12 July 2001, 07:33 PM
#136
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Chiark I`m glad you enjoyed it mate, it pretty much sums things up in my sad little world.
Thing is I spent a bit of time in a Mk2 in my time so I may not be an expert unlike Simon but I think I used to peddle one pretty quick and I`m aware how much more difficult they are to drive than the modern day cars.
Lets face it in real world terms most of the Subaru`s and Evo`s etc make an average driver into a bit of a Schuey in no time. It`s knowing what to do when things get a little leary that counts and believe me I`ve had my fair share of prangs.
If youre gonna give it some then you have to accept the consequences which is a bit of dented pride at race track but it could mean a busted up or even fatal on our public highways which is never cool.
Any way I`ve done my fare share of posting today a nd a while ago I said I wouldn`t do another but in a strange way i kinda enjoyed this one.
Reeespec
Thing is I spent a bit of time in a Mk2 in my time so I may not be an expert unlike Simon
but I think I used to peddle one pretty quick and I`m aware how much more difficult they are to drive than the modern day cars.Lets face it in real world terms most of the Subaru`s and Evo`s etc make an average driver into a bit of a Schuey in no time. It`s knowing what to do when things get a little leary that counts and believe me I`ve had my fair share of prangs.
If youre gonna give it some then you have to accept the consequences which is a bit of dented pride at race track but it could mean a busted up or even fatal on our public highways which is never cool.
Any way I`ve done my fare share of posting today a nd a while ago I said I wouldn`t do another but in a strange way i kinda enjoyed this one.
Reeespec
13 July 2001, 12:25 AM
#137
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>I think the only people who can comment with experience are Simon and Birdy<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'll keep my gob shut then. Not that i have driven a BDA escort on tarmac and gravel, high power/weight RWD car, Impreza of most types, full groupA Escort cossie blah, blah........
LOL
Dingy's car is far from competition spec.......
so there
I'll keep my gob shut then. Not that i have driven a BDA escort on tarmac and gravel, high power/weight RWD car, Impreza of most types, full groupA Escort cossie blah, blah........
LOLDingy's car is far from competition spec.......
so there
13 July 2001, 09:10 AM
#141
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by dingy:
<B>And for my next post......
Are my posts all gonna get muppetised...
[/quote]
Well.. what's the common factor ?
<B>And for my next post......
Are my posts all gonna get muppetised...
[/quote]Well.. what's the common factor ?
13 July 2001, 09:13 AM
#142
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Agree with Chiark and am gobsmacked Birdy is being half serious 
Agree to a point what he says re development, but the difference for trackdays, is that Dingys car is COMPETITION spec and the EVOS/Scoobs (majority) are road spec......
So that narrows the gap (not as narrow as the tyres though of course).
Then theres the weight advantage - 350kg advantage for Dingy, so the tyres are not having to work as hard, brakes aren't having to work as hard (they don't work at all if I remember rightly) and the gap is narrowed even furthur.
On roads, a well driven Scoob or EVO "should" leave him - but after having been in all cars I know they don't - wet it's a different story.
I think the only people who can comment with experience are Simon and Birdy - and neither have been in the car and so are making assumptions......
So there
Agree to a point what he says re development, but the difference for trackdays, is that Dingys car is COMPETITION spec and the EVOS/Scoobs (majority) are road spec......
So that narrows the gap (not as narrow as the tyres though of course
).Then theres the weight advantage - 350kg advantage for Dingy, so the tyres are not having to work as hard, brakes aren't having to work as hard (they don't work at all if I remember rightly
) and the gap is narrowed even furthur.On roads, a well driven Scoob or EVO "should" leave him - but after having been in all cars I know they don't - wet it's a different story.
I think the only people who can comment with experience are Simon and Birdy - and neither have been in the car and so are making assumptions......
So there
13 July 2001, 01:40 PM
#143
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Hello, room for 1 more?
All I know (and I must grant its very little)
is that my mate had a MKII rally car. Full cage, and some serious development suspension. It out handled every road car I have ever been in. But the it should. I have no doubt that if dingy forked out on getting his well sorted then it gonna **** all over just about everything anyone on this board drives (John F excluded).
At the end of the day, if you want to get serious with the handling of your car you dont think anything of changing whatever you need to to do it. Changing suspension mounting points, lightweight roll cage to add stiffening...... its all gonna make it better.
At the end of the day there is nothing to stop some of the serious technology use to drive rear wheel cars being used on dingys car if he wants. Traction control COULD be applied of he wanted it, given the money. In my book, nothing to stop the "cleaver" M3 technology being applied to dingys car.
robski
p.s. Simon, I agree Especially about the bit where wider wheels are added to a car by the marketing people. I happens to all companies. I used to know a bloke at LOTUS (chassis engineer) and even they had to put wider wheels on than was optimum for the cars. But then the general public (esppecially the M3 type buying crowd) wouldnt go near a car that didnt have at least 245s on it would they!?)
All I know (and I must grant its very little)
is that my mate had a MKII rally car. Full cage, and some serious development suspension. It out handled every road car I have ever been in. But the it should. I have no doubt that if dingy forked out on getting his well sorted then it gonna **** all over just about everything anyone on this board drives (John F excluded).
At the end of the day, if you want to get serious with the handling of your car you dont think anything of changing whatever you need to to do it. Changing suspension mounting points, lightweight roll cage to add stiffening...... its all gonna make it better.
At the end of the day there is nothing to stop some of the serious technology use to drive rear wheel cars being used on dingys car if he wants. Traction control COULD be applied of he wanted it, given the money. In my book, nothing to stop the "cleaver" M3 technology being applied to dingys car.
robski
p.s. Simon, I agree
Especially about the bit where wider wheels are added to a car by the marketing people. I happens to all companies. I used to know a bloke at LOTUS (chassis engineer) and even they had to put wider wheels on than was optimum for the cars. But then the general public (esppecially the M3 type buying crowd) wouldnt go near a car that didnt have at least 245s on it would they!?)
14 July 2001, 12:14 PM
#145
Believe me Dingy (and you know this) your MKII is nothing close to a proper race spec car. This isnt having a go at you, as you know i like your motor. Thats just the way it is.
It's like i would never say my westfield is a competition car. It pisses rings round most cars and would do well in a lot of race championships, but it's a road car used on track days. A dedicated race car is a million miles away from the spec i run.
You need to take a look at the Escort Cossie GroupA car and Esprit GT car a run, then you will understand what a competition car is.
As for having the car scrutineered for sprinting, that means nowt mate. I used to sprint my Manta GTE exclusive and Sapphire Cosworth. Both very road spec indeedy.
It's like i would never say my westfield is a competition car. It pisses rings round most cars and would do well in a lot of race championships, but it's a road car used on track days. A dedicated race car is a million miles away from the spec i run.
You need to take a look at the Escort Cossie GroupA car and Esprit GT car a run, then you will understand what a competition car is.
As for having the car scrutineered for sprinting, that means nowt mate. I used to sprint my Manta GTE exclusive and Sapphire Cosworth. Both very road spec indeedy.
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