Hatch Forged Engine F**ked
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03 March 2020, 08:48 PM
#37
Scooby Regular
03 March 2020, 08:50 PM
#38
My forged engine has piston slap for a minute at most on cold start, but it doesn't use a drop of oil. I've done 20k miles on it since the forged build and have never had to top the oil level up. On all my standard non-forged engines they all required oil every 2 weeks.
With regards to the piston coatings now offered by wiseco as mentioned by lockheed, they are for different reasons depending on requirements, heat deflection, reduced friction from oil, honing of piston to bore etc.
With regards to the piston coatings now offered by wiseco as mentioned by lockheed, they are for different reasons depending on requirements, heat deflection, reduced friction from oil, honing of piston to bore etc.
03 March 2020, 08:54 PM
#40
Scooby Regular
Yes I know I did read your post. And I am aware of the oil pickup pipes cracking etc. I am in agreement with you. I know forged pistons would not starve an engine of oil.
03 March 2020, 09:01 PM
#43
could the op's problem be related to a cracked liner? as its a non closed decked block there is a weakness there, various engine builders have said that the 2.5 engine as a whole is a problem engine from the headgaskets/piston rings to the actual block itself.
only a strip down will tell us, i dont think he should replace with a standard new 2.5 block though - false economy in my opinion
only a strip down will tell us, i dont think he should replace with a standard new 2.5 block though - false economy in my opinion
03 March 2020, 09:06 PM
#44
could the op's problem be related to a cracked liner? as its a non closed decked block there is a weakness there, various engine builders have said that the 2.5 engine as a whole is a problem engine from the headgaskets/piston rings to the actual block itself.
only a strip down will tell us, i dont think he should replace with a standard new 2.5 block though - false economy in my opinion
only a strip down will tell us, i dont think he should replace with a standard new 2.5 block though - false economy in my opinion
If the OP is getting a new 2.5 block then for the minimal £500 cost I'd send it to Alyn at AS for the closed deck conversion.
03 March 2020, 10:24 PM
#45
A cracked liner would give you rough running issues but wouldn't cause oil pressure loss to the extent of putting the oil pressure light on.
If the OP is getting a new 2.5 block then for the minimal £500 cost I'd send it to Alyn at AS for the closed deck conversion.
If the OP is getting a new 2.5 block then for the minimal £500 cost I'd send it to Alyn at AS for the closed deck conversion.
I wouldnt want a standard replacement block from subaru
Even if it was to be closed decked.
03 March 2020, 10:48 PM
#46
Would be worth watching the video on YouTube showing how a subaru 2.5 block is converted to closed deck. It's a very interesting watch and makes you realise how much work is involved and how many hours for the minimal £500 cost.
03 March 2020, 11:11 PM
#47
You can do a closed deck conversion to a used or new subaru block but a used one will always require a rebore which will make the piston liners thinner. Some specialists will tell you that once a 2.5 block has been rebored then even with the cnc manufactured closed deck inserts installed the integrity is still under question. Some still rate a used block even with closed deck inserts to 450bhp max. That said, Alyn has converted loads of used blocks to closed deck which run power well jn excess of that level. All depends who you speak to.
Would be worth watching the video on YouTube showing how a subaru 2.5 block is converted to closed deck. It's a very interesting watch and makes you realise how much work is involved and how many hours for the minimal £500 cost.
Would be worth watching the video on YouTube showing how a subaru 2.5 block is converted to closed deck. It's a very interesting watch and makes you realise how much work is involved and how many hours for the minimal £500 cost.
04 March 2020, 12:36 PM
#49
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Probably best not to have posted this entire thread in that case!
Some confusion though, you mean it’s done 80,000 kms since rebuild, yes? Just someone quoted you saying 80 kms. To be honest that’s about 4 times as far as the average 2.5 lol
Sadly driving it that far with the oil light on and until it seized up I’d imagine a right mess of metal debris everywhere.
Some confusion though, you mean it’s done 80,000 kms since rebuild, yes? Just someone quoted you saying 80 kms. To be honest that’s about 4 times as far as the average 2.5 lol
Sadly driving it that far with the oil light on and until it seized up I’d imagine a right mess of metal debris everywhere.
I bought the car with HG failure with 83,000 kms on the clock and got the engine forged, it now has 163,000 kms so approx 80,000 kms as daily driver.
I havent had a chance to look at it yet, need to drop the oil to see.
04 March 2020, 12:59 PM
#50
My forged engine has piston slap for a minute at most on cold start, but it doesn't use a drop of oil. I've done 20k miles on it since the forged build and have never had to top the oil level up. On all my standard non-forged engines they all required oil every 2 weeks.
With regards to the piston coatings now offered by wiseco as mentioned by lockheed, they are for different reasons depending on requirements, heat deflection, reduced friction from oil, honing of piston to bore etc.
With regards to the piston coatings now offered by wiseco as mentioned by lockheed, they are for different reasons depending on requirements, heat deflection, reduced friction from oil, honing of piston to bore etc.
Drop in pistons (cheaper option) are more likely to wear faster and cause more issues as the bores have not been honed to the pistons specifications correctly, evident in my car when it needed a second rebuild after I bought it. Plenty of scoring on the original pistons and consuming oil like a standard 2.5, to the point that I didnt even know it was forged until ET took it apart!
04 March 2020, 01:03 PM
#51
Scooby Regular
Probably best not to have posted this entire thread in that case!
Some confusion though, you mean it’s done 80,000 kms since rebuild, yes? Just someone quoted you saying 80 kms. To be honest that’s about 4 times as far as the average 2.5 lol
Sadly driving it that far with the oil light on and until it seized up I’d imagine a right mess of metal debris everywhere.
Some confusion though, you mean it’s done 80,000 kms since rebuild, yes? Just someone quoted you saying 80 kms. To be honest that’s about 4 times as far as the average 2.5 lol
Sadly driving it that far with the oil light on and until it seized up I’d imagine a right mess of metal debris everywhere.
Good luck on getting your motor fixed.
04 March 2020, 03:25 PM
#52
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Agreed, its also worth remember that theres forged builds and then proper forged builds and sometimes people forget the distinction between the two.
Drop in pistons (cheaper option) are more likely to wear faster and cause more issues as the bores have not been honed to the pistons specifications correctly, evident in my car when it needed a second rebuild after I bought it. Plenty of scoring on the original pistons and consuming oil like a standard 2.5, to the point that I didn't even know it was forged until ET took it apart!
Drop in pistons (cheaper option) are more likely to wear faster and cause more issues as the bores have not been honed to the pistons specifications correctly, evident in my car when it needed a second rebuild after I bought it. Plenty of scoring on the original pistons and consuming oil like a standard 2.5, to the point that I didn't even know it was forged until ET took it apart!
yes, oil usage was pain in the ***, using more than a refill of oil between services for daily car isn't great.
but your hear some use loads of oil and some people's cars dont use any oil between services.
what does and a new crank and bearing cost these days?
Last edited by Donie; 04 March 2020 at 03:26 PM.
04 March 2020, 03:35 PM
#53
My block would have been bored and honed so should have been fine but
yes, oil usage was pain in the ***, using more than a refill of oil between services for daily car isn't great.
but your hear some use loads of oil and some people's cars dont use any oil between services.
what does and a new crank and bearing cost these days?
yes, oil usage was pain in the ***, using more than a refill of oil between services for daily car isn't great.
but your hear some use loads of oil and some people's cars dont use any oil between services.
what does and a new crank and bearing cost these days?
21 May 2020, 01:23 AM
#55
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Hi All
The time has to come to fix the engine in the Hatch so I can sell it to help pay for the Hawk I bought.
The engine is fully seized, wont turn over by hand.
So I probably looking at the following replacement parts at a minimum:
Acl Bearing
Crank
Oil Modine
Oil pump
Engine Seals & Gasket kit.
Looking for an Idea on the prices of parts,
Bearing?
Crank?
Modine?
Oil Pump £160
Seals & Gasket kit £400
Other Option is get a second hand replacement engine?
Are all 2.5 engines the same?
Hawk v Hatch?
How much is good second hand engine?
thanks
Donie
The time has to come to fix the engine in the Hatch so I can sell it to help pay for the Hawk I bought.
The engine is fully seized, wont turn over by hand.
So I probably looking at the following replacement parts at a minimum:
Acl Bearing
Crank
Oil Modine
Oil pump
Engine Seals & Gasket kit.
Looking for an Idea on the prices of parts,
Bearing?
Crank?
Modine?
Oil Pump £160
Seals & Gasket kit £400
Other Option is get a second hand replacement engine?
Are all 2.5 engines the same?
Hawk v Hatch?
How much is good second hand engine?
thanks
Donie
21 May 2020, 05:29 AM
#56
Scooby Regular
Hi All
The time has to come to fix the engine in the Hatch so I can sell it to help pay for the Hawk I bought.
The engine is fully seized, wont turn over by hand.
So I probably looking at the following replacement parts at a minimum:
Acl Bearing
Crank
Oil Modine
Oil pump
Engine Seals & Gasket kit.
Looking for an Idea on the prices of parts,
Bearing?
Crank?
Modine?
Oil Pump £160
Seals & Gasket kit £400
Other Option is get a second hand replacement engine?
Are all 2.5 engines the same?
Hawk v Hatch?
How much is good second hand engine?
thanks
Donie
The time has to come to fix the engine in the Hatch so I can sell it to help pay for the Hawk I bought.
The engine is fully seized, wont turn over by hand.
So I probably looking at the following replacement parts at a minimum:
Acl Bearing
Crank
Oil Modine
Oil pump
Engine Seals & Gasket kit.
Looking for an Idea on the prices of parts,
Bearing?
Crank?
Modine?
Oil Pump £160
Seals & Gasket kit £400
Other Option is get a second hand replacement engine?
Are all 2.5 engines the same?
Hawk v Hatch?
How much is good second hand engine?
thanks
Donie
hatch and hawk have different heads , hawk is single avcs and the other is duel avcs ,,, trouble is putting anything other than another forged engine back in will hit the price right out of any hatches as no one is interested unless they are already forged properly and have some miles on them
21 May 2020, 09:06 AM
#57
hatch and hawk have different heads , hawk is single avcs and the other is duel avcs ,,, trouble is putting anything other than another forged engine back in will hit the price right out of any hatches as no one is interested unless they are already forged properly and have some miles on them
they are specifically different heads / cam triggers to the earlier 2.0 AVCS though if thats where your getting mixed up??
21 May 2020, 02:52 PM
#60
Well bugger me! I always thought (was told years back) that the Hawks were dual AVCS. Seems I'm wrong! They are indeed single and 08 onwards is dual. My apologies indeed.
Every day is a school day.
FFS don't tell my wife I was wrong, I'm always telling her I'm always right!
Every day is a school day.
FFS don't tell my wife I was wrong, I'm always telling her I'm always right!