The Rig

iTrader: (13)

Regarding the ecu swap with esl, its npo bother, just remove the ESL board and insert into your new ecu. ( as long as the standard ecu has the IC socket already attached) if not, that will need soldering on also.

Ash Webster

cheers do i need anything to do with VIN codes etc to 'unlock' the donor ecu?

bludgod

iTrader: (3)

this ECU won't be vin locked so you can swap and change even with a standard/nonESL ecu just to be sure it's working as it should to help narrow things down.

Ash Webster

awesome ty.

thanks to everyone posting again, its greatly appreciated.

when i can drive down the street week in week out without the 22 CEL coming on it will feel like this is all worth it.

Ash Webster

New ECU bought and on the way. Had problems with cooling system over the last week (completely my fault)

Will I be ok to run it with no ESL, even with FMIC , 3 port BCS etc? or will i need to put the ESL board on? Does the ECU come with the port for the ESL board or will i need to solder one on?

Cheers

Ash

bludgod

iTrader: (3)

you can run it with that ECU - it just won't be as optimally tuned for your mods but should start and drive OK unless you've something really fancy on there that the ESL was tuned for.

Some ECU's will have a socket with a chip in it already, some will just have an empty socket outline on the board. You'll have to then add a socket for the ESL board to go into and then cut the jumper wire on the board so it reads from the socket/ESL board instead of the factory map.

Ash Webster

thanks - if it doesnt have the socket ill reconnect the MAF, leave it on idle and check the voltages coming out of the ECU pin. Current voltage is 1v. Hopefully the pin will read ~2.8v as it should, then i can go about getting the socket and plugging the ESL in.

If it does ill simply plug in the ESL, test the voltage and pray for 2.8v and drive away!

stockcar

if your car is the 97-98 yellow 3plug style then the above is totally wrong and only applies to earlier 92-96 4plug cars............

your ECU will need the adaptor board expertly removed and swapped across or sent to ESL to be converted

lockheed

iTrader: (1)

Damn I was just going to say that

The Rig

iTrader: (13)

How`s this going bud ?

Ash Webster

Well

i have a replacement ecu ready to go on... but it’s one problem after another.

i had overheating problems caused by poor maintenance so I then had to flush the entire system multiple times to get rid of rust. That took a whole few weekends and literally hundreds of litres of water before it ran clear. Then filled with coolant and it’s was sorted.

been mega busy with work was over in the states.

came back and went out for a ride on the motorbike and now lost my ducking keys.

palava

The Rig

iTrader: (13)

Crikey sounds destined to not be sorted lol

well weathers good so crack on ha :-)

ossett2k2

iTrader: (9)

Sorry for the late reply,been sorting some family stuff.

Probably using the meter wrong lol but here are my readings,


Ignition On


Car running

Ash Webster

thanks dude,

the 2.8v (or 0.28 as you have it!) is different to my 1v

I have an elec coming to remove the immobiliser on Sat (lost my ****ing keys + fob haha). While he's here i'm going to get him to test the ECU again (confirm 1v output), then test a new ECU i have bought (hopefully outputting 2.8v from the correct pin). If so ill get him to swap over the ESL board onto the new ecu, wire up and away we go!

It shouldnt need remapping if i just swap over the ESL board from one ECU to another right? (logically it makes sense but just confirming for sanity's sake)

Ash Webster

Right so I tested the new ecu and still getting only 1v from pin 14..... I’m lost with what to do now. I’ve replaced the wiring and the sensor and tested a new ecu...

is there any way to bypass the knock sensor?

ossett2k2

iTrader: (9)

Does sound like the sensor is picking up a noise which is causing the voltage to drop and see knock.
Tried relocating the sensor yet?

You can switch off knock control,if your knock threshold figure is higher than the figures in your ignition advance table then the ECU shouldn't pull timing and put you in safe mode.

Edit: to say,if you do this and you do get real knock then the ECU won't help save your engine.

Ash Webster

Thanks man...

I wouldnt think the sensor is actually doing anything as this is the case both when the car is IGN on Eng off and IGN on Eng on. As a sanity check i might plug in my old sensor just to double check..and then try relocating it as well

I'm actually fine with the risk tbh - the engine has a decent mileage on it and im actually looking to build a new block from scratch at some point. So i just set the knock threshold higher than the figs in my IGN advance table?

The car's OEM knock sensor warning might still go off though correct? As long as that doesnt limit the boost i can deal with that.... have a trackday coming up and dont want to have to reset the car constantly..

ossett2k2

iTrader: (9)

Should only throw a cel if it thinks the sensor is faulty,so not sure in your case?

Yes if you set the threshold figure to higher than all the figures in your ign advance table then this should disable closed loop knock control.

Ash Webster

every now and again i'll get the 22 CEL. sometimes after 30 mins driving sometimes never. Sometimes after driving miss daisy for an hour, and conversely not after driving hard for 1 hour. And like i said i've replaced / tested everything. New ecu, new wiring, new OEM sensor. Same result.

There's a gremlin in the system.

ossett2k2

iTrader: (9)

I can only think faulty sensor,you fit a new one so is unlikely but not unheard of is a faulty new sensor.
Only other thing is it's hearing noise from your engine or running gear which has a similar frequency to det?

Most of the info on knock sensor relocation seems to be USA but there is a perfect location above the original one.

The Rig

iTrader: (13)

Is the sensor fitted in the right direction ? ( clutching at straws )

Weird, new sensor, new ecu and still the same voltage. Maybe the voltage is correct ??

Have you tapped the knock sensor whilst the multimeter is connected to see what voltage changes you have ?

Ash Webster

I'm gonna have a play around tomorro and this weekend with your suggestions guys.

gonna swap out the sensor to the old one and check voltage whilst tapping each.

try relocating it if the sensor is kosher.

failing that set the threshold high and just ignore the CEL which may or may not eventually come on.

The Rig

iTrader: (13)

Just be careful setting the threshold higher than your advance timing figures as if the threshold is higher than ALL the figures you will find it wont learn even out of closed loop and your IAM will never change above 8 meaning you wont be getting all advance timing meaning a slower car, its a fine line between a higher threshold and learning and no learning, you may need to tweak the base timing to alter the advance figures so the threshold can be higher but lower than when on full chat at WOT for example

I found the threshold has to be around 2 or 3 lower than the timing for when on full load wot for the iam to change, if your threshold was say 8 and at full chat 9 ( with mine anyway ) the iam still wouldnt go above 8, if i lowered the threshold to 6 or 7 with advance timing of 9 then the IAM changed quickly

Ash Webster

Been really dissolusioned with the car at the moment. driving round with no boost and a leaky windscreen is taking its toll on me...

Havent actually got round to trying any of your methods. weather hasnt helped but also have been really busy.

In an ideal situation id just take it to a garage who could fix it but thats not an option as I dont know anyone round here who is good with classic scoob electrics... (and ESL added into that mix)

Is there anyone around (northwest) or knows anyone, who would be in the situation where they could take the car for a few days, and iron it out... will need to be someone handy at electronics and who knows their stuff, with a basic knowledge of ESL.

@ossett2k2 looking at you

Even if its just a workaround with regards to the Knock sensor circuit ('bodging' it to trick the ECU into thinking it is fine)

obviously willing to pay.

Thanks for all your guys help in the thread btw .

The Rig

iTrader: (13)

Did you fit the new ecu/solder in the new ESL board ?

Ash Webster

I didn’t even try. The elec said the pin read out the same on both ecus (1v instead of 2.3). And I’ve changed the wiring and the sensor ...

ossett2k2

iTrader: (9)

We could try sort a day out Ash,life's pretty hectic atm but I could take a look,spend a couple of hours looking over things.
Electronics certainly not my strong point but I might spot a problem in the map or logs.

Another option,north east tho would be Alyn at As Performance,he's also very familiar with ESL.

Ash Webster

Thanks man - i think ill try ringing Alyn then first, id rather somewhere i could just drop it off and trust they knew what they were doing.

With it being such a hard problem to replicate (the error code 22 goes off on ignition off / restart), and the added ESL on top, most auto elecs are baffled.

I'll let you know what he says,- and if not , again would be much appreciated spending a few hours either fully diagnosing what the f*ck is going on and/or fixing it at yours.

Cheers

ossett2k2

iTrader: (9)

No worries
I've been using esl a few years now,wouldn't want to fanny around with anyone else's car/map,defiantly take a look at things tho bud.

Ash Webster

Rang Alyn just now - very helpful guy. Listened to my whole saga, both decided it was hard to diagnose the fault and something weird was going on.. and could take 30 mins could take days to find the problem/solution.

Unfortunately he's busy / booked up for the next month, so i will try to get booked in mid September.

Until then i guess ill get the windscreen re-sealed and tidy up the car a bit, might give it another coolant flush and get the wet smell out of the car! haha