JackClark

“What you going to do with an obsolete EV?....repack the battery with some new Duracells?”
Exactly that, there are upgrades available for old Nissan leafs, giving them more range than new.

IdonthaveaScooby

I suspect you cant just buy them in Sainsbury's

still seems prohibitive ,maybe no than a full engine replacement on icv

https://www.joinbonnet.com/post/how-...und%20£7%2C000.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Maybe whilst that cell-type doesn't become obsolete. Then it'd be retro fitting cells of different shapes and voltages. Modify or changing inverters to manage it. It's whole different level of headache. And I don't know about you, but working on 400vDC+ batteries with no off-switch (bar splitting the battery unit) feels as sketchy as welding next to a rusty petrol tank.

BMWhere?

I read that stat about EVs vs petrol/diesel cars burning. It is statistically correct that there are more fires as a percentage for non-EVs, although the difference is not huge.

However you also have to take into account the age of the vehicle. Statistically older cars are more likely to catch fire than newer cars and the average age of non-EVs on the road is significantly higher than EVs that just haven't been around that long. What surprised me in the article I read, was the number of EVs that spontaneously caught fire while not being driven and also not being charged (they quoted not within 30 mins of charging). You see the result of this with the number of EV fires on car transporters.

The other major problem with EV fires, is you can't really put them out as the burning cells produce their own oxygen. All you can do is douse them in water to lower the temperature, but they just keep burning until the fuel is exhausted.

JackClark

20 times more likely in at least one government report so quite huge. Also, the number of EV fires is going down as better protection is built in and the others have already burnt

EddScott

I've had an I Pace for a few months now. Recently had a recall to make the battery monitor more sensitive.

Personally, not buying an EV because you're worried it will catch fire is a bit silly. I wonder how many BMWs have caught fire before the EGR recall (Of which my F31 330D received)

The I Pace is such a nice place to be. Charging at home at 7.5p per KW overnight. Network chargers aren't cheap but I don't do huge miles so no big issue for. Range is fine for my needs - we'll be taking it from West Wales to Le Mans so long journeys are no problem.

Tech isn't up to Tesla levels but then only Tesla I like is the 3 and it was too small.

I Pace is also a bit of a bargain 2nd hand - dropped from 80K to 32K in 3 years with 15K miles. HSE spec. JLR have loads they need to get shot of so have good deals - money off, extended warranty, home charger install.

fpan

iTrader: (11)

Ex-management car
They are nice but I may be biased!

IdonthaveaScooby

Tax write off ?

3 cars doesn't seem that eco

EddScott

I wasn't sure if that was something JLR dealers say to all 2nd hand buyers

As a daily, I'd rather not go back to ICE.

I suspect, other than Tesla, these EV only car manufacturers may not last particuarly long. It's like in the old days where there were lots of little manufacturers, there will likely be mergers or just marques disappearing overnight. I see that Vietnam firm VinFast is worth more than Ford and GM after a few days/weeks trading (I understand why, still bizarre though) . Least with JLR you've got some feeling that they won't die out - plus their EV only strategy should mean the I Pace will have support in the future.

Had a chat with a mate this week and there's no way he'd go EV. It will either catch fire, the battery will fail within 6 months or the world will decide EV cars are a dead end and we'll all go back to V8s by Christmas.

IdonthaveaScooby

21 year old petrol gas guzzler here , old car always best for the environment - over buying anything new anyway


even ulez complaint , which I find slightly staggering 🙂 - even below euro6 NOX figure

Telero

I'm considering buying an electric car but have some doubts, and I'm sure many others do too. While electric cars offer environmental benefits and lower operating costs, concerns about charging infrastructure, range anxiety, and initial cost is really daunting. On the other hand, one thing that helped alleviate my worries was understanding how to calculate car depreciation https://amicohoops.net/car-depreciat...it-calculated/, which is generally lower for electric cars due to fewer moving parts.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Hmm.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-...s-67073446.amp

Bet a few EVs went up (I'll remain impartial on the cause 😇 ). Fire crews aren't equipped with enough foam and immersion tanks to deal with stuff like this.

My training says that ideally damaged/unstable batteries needs to be segregated and contained, immersed in water if potential unstable (basically any sign of physical damage, leakage or temps above ambient, even if slight).

That procedure seemed ok albeit unworkable if involved with multiple EVs, until I tripped across a video on the socials of a Tesla dumped underwater...on fire...in the water to the roof...still on fire! Damn!

BMWhere?

Apparently started from a diesel car, but undoubtedly worsened and helped to spread by electric vehicles.

For any fire to burn, you need a fuel source, oxygen and heat (ignition). Take away one component and you will extinguish the fire. Typically the easiest ways to extinguish a fire is to cut off the fuel source or starve the fire of oxygen. With lithium battery fires, the burning battery produces oxygen, so its not possible to remove the fuel or oxygen and the burning process also produces heat, so the fire can continue to burn even underwater. Ultimately the only solution is to cool the batteries faster than the burning process creates heat, but that takes a massive amount of water for a prolonged period. Literally submerging the car will still take quite some time cool the batteries enough to extinguish the fire. More likely, the fuel will burn out before the sufficient cooling can be achieved.

IdonthaveaScooby

oh right , cos diesel catches fire easily !

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

I'm going guess it's going to be be our favourite Indian owned British brand that likes to fit sketchy Denso alternators.

Why? Because when parked up the rectifier diodes in these have a nasty habit of failing forward-biased, causing a short circuit. and they have no fuse (VAG/Merc/BMW usually have a 100 to 150amp fuse for this reason - JLR do not). So as a result the main battery wiring gets very toasty until the battery goes flat or the diode pops and goes open circuit. If they have a healthy battery, they sometimes catch fire.

And they are a b*stard to change. That's why I know.


Edit..I guessed right

BMWhere?

Yep, seems to have been a diesel Range Rover.

JdmSti2006

No it was electric car parked on the left of this Range Rover ,they talking bollocks for a reason.
it will be plenty more incidents like this with wide ban for Ev in car parks etc

markjmd

iTrader: (11)

Which car on the left? In the picture I saw, the RR seemed to be on the end of a row, with nearest car a good few metres away.

stockcar

supposedly a Wiesel / Hybrid RR Evoque............

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Hmm, not the usual one then (has a 48v motor-generator rather than an alternator), think most of the 48v electrics are under the midriff on these which seems to be where most of the flames are coming from.

IdonthaveaScooby

hmmm

https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...-submarine-car


instead the duck diving is a safety measure

IdonthaveaScooby

How much dearer is emergency cover / breakdown for an EV , It looks like a lot of extra expense for tow trucks - if scotty kilmer is right

IdonthaveaScooby

Im sure we have the situation much more under control , right...

IdonthaveaScooby

25 % all crashes in US are Tesla , the most crashed vehicle , quite a stat !

BMWhere?

Another wildly unqualified statement from you that doesn't stand up to scrutiny!

In a survey by lendingtree Tesla drivers come out as the worst accident rate, just shy of 24 in every 1000 having recorded an accident. That is clearly not 24% (or 25%) of all crashes!

However, an article by InsideEV points out, that this statistic is only of the drivers who are currently insured for a Tesla and have had a previous accident claim which affects their insurance quote. It does not mean that accident was in a Tesla, but could be in any car they previously owned that still affects their insurance quote. So the statistic is on the drivers, not on the cars!

Additionally, a separate report from Insurify reports that the Audi S4 is the most crashed car model in the US. No Tesla vehicles even make the top 10!

If you actually checked your facts before spouting off your normal drivel and posted reliable sources to your wild statements, people might take you more seriously!

IdonthaveaScooby

Subaru 3rd , who'd have thought it


from what I can make out EV dilemmas / "mishaps" are putting Everybodys car insurance costs up

IdonthaveaScooby

The necessary evil for experimenting on the public , same as covid vaccines of course



what the percentage contribution renewable energy Germany these days

IdonthaveaScooby

1% Cars in USA now pure electric , 3% in UK ......Its going well so far !

IdonthaveaScooby

This is where electric would be actually be useful , but the spontaneous combustion aspect would put me off a bit


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-67944657#

IdonthaveaScooby

ev resale value plummeting , why would throw away half the cars resale value

https://www.theverge.com/2023/10/27/...air-price-cuts