alcazar

iTrader: (2)

You think not? I think you would be surprised.

Who did those jobs pre-2002, pray tell? And were food prices higher?

It's just scaremongering by the same people who have now got previously right-thinking folk believing that British youth is feckless, lazy and would rather not work.

Rubbish. You should be ashamed of yourselves. What you preach is another form of racism...except against your own kind.

dpb

Yep all those freshers , out in the fields picking cabbage on their way to some daft degree



Racism lol

neil-h

And there was me thinking you didn't have a sense of humour

markjmd

iTrader: (11)

If part(s) of Britain were hit by an atomic bomb, or the country turned into some kind of police-state with 9pm curfews and lights-out by 10:30pm, I'm pretty sure immigration would drop quite a lot too. The question is, would YOU even still want to live here then?

Paben

iTrader: (5)

With A-bombs flying about I'm sure immigration would vanish to be replaced by rapid emigration of the few survivors, but assuming a massive war had started where would they go?
Or are you advocating a police state as a means of controlling immigration?

markjmd

iTrader: (11)

I was simply pointing out that if the country is/was made unpleasant enough to live in by whatever means, it won't be a surprise to anyone that fewer people will want to come and live here (or as you point out, that a lot of people will actually want to leave). Nuclear war or a police-state scenario are just two (admittedly extreme) examples of such means, but turning the country into an economic basket case would be another (assuming it had been an option for them, and excluding the desire to escape life under the Soviet boot as a motivating factor, would there have been throngs of Poles or Lithuanians coming over here to pick our fruit etc during the Callaghan/Healey era? I seriously doubt it).

dpb

So , presumably whats being alluded to is that employing foreigners all this time has simply boosted the earnings of these companies meanwhile raising the social security payouts to 'indigenous' squeezed out of a job ?

Geezer

No, only spread around the country. I know you find it hard to accept that most people want to remain part of the single market, but there it is.

Polls showed Trump making up lots of ground in the run up to the election. He lost the popular vote, won the votes he needed.

The EU referendum was also very close, with variance. The polls are not perfect, no one says they are.

But such large numbers are hard to ignore. If it said 54% want to remain part of the single market, you'd have a point. But they don't, so you don't.

Really? As uncontrolled as EU immigration is, only 284,000 came in last year, as opposed to the 366,000 from non EU states, which we have total control of. Still, I await your answer on how you think this is going to change markedly post Brexit.

I shan't hold my breath, like most of Brexiteers, you have no idea.

Geezer

Except that unemployment has not risen whilst immigrants come, so who exactly are they shoving out of jobs?

Shrodinger's immigrant once again, eh?

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Are you serious?

What do you think students did in years gone by? Here they worked at strawberry picking or on the works.

In Lincolnshire, in the fields.

In Grimsby, in the fish or food factories.

Etc etc.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

What IS your point?

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

So YOU say. But as always, you have no proof, just a dubious survey. LOL



Well, you go on believing your polls then. Are there fairies at the bottom of your garden, by the way



So...a quarter of a million less, then? Not bad...even you have to see that.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Rubbish. I know of people shoved out of jobs so that the employers could take on cheaper immigrants.

Have a look at unemployment in UK youth, why don't you?

Just because it doesn't affect YOU doesn't mean it's not happening. Wake up and smell the coffee.

dpb

going down all the time as far as I can see ? despite open door policy

http://researchbriefings.parliament....ummary/SN05871


and massively less than some rest of Europe

neil-h

The key part of that statement is "in years gone by". The only place you'll find a group of students happy to go work on a farm or a fishery these days is an agricultural college.

markjmd

iTrader: (11)

Judging from that reply, I'd have to sum it up simply as too valid and well-made for you to admit you get it.

The Trooper 1815

iTrader: (31)

But we would become immigrats to get away from a jack boot regime.

Geezer

Why is it dubious? It will have variance either way, all polls do. It's not as if any polls say 95% want something, and then it's totally the other way round. Some polls have got it a fair bit wrong, most are fairly indicative.

The poll has been taken, the burden of proof that it is dubious is on you, not me.




This statement really shows just how little you understand the situation. The number may well decrease, I don't disagree. However, it it not going to go down by 284,000, is it? No one is going to stop EU, immigration.

And, seeing as how we fail utterly to control the huge numbers of non EU immigrants, do you really think we will make much of an impact on the EU ones?

Is that simple enough for you, or do I need to get out the crayons and fuzzy felt figures?

Sad Weevil

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sad Weevil
And when immigration falls, it will mean the end of deliberate NHS underfunding, there will be plenty of affordable housing for those who need it, plenty of room in your school of choice, higher wages for everyone, and squadrons of flying pigs in the sky.
If you really think that the housing crisis, increasing inequality, and lack of school places is due to EU immigration rather than Tory policy and lack of political will, you probably believe in Father Christmas and the tooth fairy too.
In the transport industry, there is a shortfall of 30,000 qualified truck drivers. A lot of these vacancies are being filled by qualified migrants from the EU. If an indigenous driver wants to qualify for an LGV and CPC, they have to pay thousands of pounds of there own money, which they don't have. Why doesn't the government contribute to training them? Oh yes, it's the EU's fault....

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

And you KNOW that because????????

My own son is a student at age 30. he works every summer and most of his other holidays, either labouring for a builder or as a plater/welder.

My younger son worked every summer break as a store display refurbisher. In his last year he had his own team and even a works van.

You, sir, are a bigot. You are spreading lies about our youth and should be ashamed.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

So what?

Who cares what they do/don't do.

I care about youth unemployment here. I care about paedo rings. I care about people made redundant so greedy bosses can employ cheaper Eastern European workers. I care about a health service fit to bust with extra folk to deal with, about schools being forced to take immigrant kids while others from the area are refused entry, about schools being given NO extra money to cope with language tuition for immigrant kids, about lack of housing, etc etc IN THE UK!!!!

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

One example..and even then, you are only partly right. LGV costs about £2000, and grants are available.
The problem starts when the newly qualified driver can't get insurance, so isn't taken on by the owners.
And again...if a greedy owner can employ a part qualified migrant at £6.75 per hour, or a UK driver at £13 ph, guess which he does?

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

The burden of proof is on he who quoted it. As I said: you want to keep believing your surveys, you do it.







I don't WANT to stop immigration.
can't you people get it through your heads that it's NOT immigration per se that is wrong, it's the UNCONTROLLED immigration we now have. It was wrong when Lying Labour allowed it, it's wrong now.

neil-h

Well congratulations, you've clearly done a hell of a job bringing up your kids and instilling a real work ethic in them. Quite clearly (and rightly) you're proud of this fact. That doesn't change the fact that for every kid like yours, there's another who feels to entitled to do a hard days work becuase they've gone to Uni.

Incidentally, you might want to go away and think about this.

dpb

I suppose if you've got it in your mind set that EU is all about lining pockets of the rich and nothing more ,then there's really no movement , nothing further to discuss

Geezer

No, the poll was taken, I am referencing it. If you don't believe, that's your right, but take it up with them. However, you have claimed that poll is dubious, yet offer no reason why.

See how that works?







Ok, so what is an acceptable level to you? Is 366,000 too many? That's still what we would get in your magical post Brexit world.

366,000 controlled immigrants, in one year. That's considerably more than the 284,000 of uncontrolled immigrants.

Come one, stop avoiding the question, what level and how? You voted for this, you must have had an idea? Or, maybe, just maybe, you voted for something for which you really have no idea of what you want, even less how you would implement (not really sure how you implement what do don't know, of course).

Geezer

Oh dear, oh dear. There are no paedo rings of indigenous people, are there?

And where are all these millions of extra unemployed to make way for immigrants? Oh, that's right, there aren't.

Whilst I am sure that a minority of people have lost out to immigrants, it's just that, a tiny minority.

We've already covered the 'lack' of housing. The NHS is screwed anyway, and that was long before we had loads of immigrants.

madscoob

iTrader: (3)

immigration only needs controling financially ,
IE you are more than welcombe to come here BUT
1 you must be able to support yourself/family for 12months off your own back
2 you will get ZERO benefits
3 if you haven't found a job after 12months or money has run out GOODBYE OFF YOU GO TO WHERE EVER YOU CAME FROM WE WILL PAY FOR YOUR TICKET
this is just a very basic version of aussie rules new zeland rules canada ruls etc
think of it like this would you sell up and move to cornwall arrive claiming to be pennyless and expecting the local townfolk to feed clothe and house you AND PAY YOU TO DO NOTHING ?

hodgy0_2

and ironically much of what you say is pretty much already in place


anyone wishing to live/ work (and claim benefits) has to pass the Habitual Residence test

that includes EU non EU and indeed even expat UK citizens coming back from long term residence abroad

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/be...esidence-test/



more info here

https://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK...-and-benefits/

Geezer

No, of course not, but this is one of the great myths, we do not have a huge raft of immigrants who come here on a 'benefits holiday'. Also, we are in total control of our benefits, who we pay, what we pay them. You cannot just dolly up here and ask for benefits and exist off the state in perpetuity.

Even if you could, that would be an issue for the govt, not the EU. Leaving the EU to solve that is pointless unless you cease any immigration, which is not in anyone's interests (well, except maybe tw@ts like Britain First).