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EU Referendum
Scooby Regular
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From: Berks
It was actually the UK government that vetod raising EU steel tarifs on Chinese steel to protect the European steel industries. The UK is not the only country in Europe with a steel industry, many other European countries are also struggling in the steel industry. For the life of me I can't understand why the UK vetod this. The rest of Europe can blame the UK for the steel crisis in the UK!
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (1)
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From: Api 500+bhp MD321T @91dB Probably SN's longest owner of an Impreza Turbo
If this doesn't explain our history and the loss that is going to happen if we don't leave then?
http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/673677/EU-referendum-John-Redwood-voters-to-banish-puppet-parliament-Brexit
http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/673677/EU-referendum-John-Redwood-voters-to-banish-puppet-parliament-Brexit
Scooby Regular
Joined: Nov 2007
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From: Scooby Planet
Ahh, TTIP, that nasty secret still to be disclosed (after our referendum has happened, obviously!).
mb
mb
Scooby Regular
Joined: Jun 2005
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From: Type 25. Build No.34
https://fullfact.org/europe/hunt-eu-army
Last edited by Martin2005; May 25, 2016 at 10:59 PM.
this alone is reason to leave
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/666...European-Union
oh and before anyone says anything the netherlands have documents to prove it
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/666...European-Union
oh and before anyone says anything the netherlands have documents to prove it
Scooby Regular
Joined: Nov 2003
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From: riding the crest of a wave ...
You can always depend on a red top for repeating the same lines , at least three times within an article and for the whole thing to be artificially enlarged with lots pictures fur the hard of thinking
Scooby Regular
Joined: Jun 2005
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From: Type 25. Build No.34
This must be happening because the big exclusive was on the 3rd May, since then it's barely been mentioned...
Oh and here are the facts...
https://fullfact.org/europe/does-tti...vatisation-nhs
Scooby Regular
Joined: Nov 2007
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From: Scooby Planet
Because its been an EU long term goal,more so Germany wants it.Apart from personnel thing I've been told,is also apparantley a clause in the Lisbon treaty which can force the UK into an EU Army .That unelected president of the European commision Jean Claude is all for it..
Last edited by DYK; May 25, 2016 at 11:18 PM.
Scooby Regular
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From: Type 25. Build No.34
Because its been an EU long term goal,more so Germany wants it.Apart from personnel thing I've been told,is also apparantley a clause in the Lisbon treaty which can force the UK into an EU Army .That unelected president of the European commision Jean Claude jnucker is all for it..
I think you need to re-evaluate who you listen to.
https://fullfact.org/europe/hunt-eu-army
Last edited by Martin2005; May 25, 2016 at 11:19 PM.
Scooby Regular
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From: Type 25. Build No.34
Scooby Regular
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 8,222
Likes: 0
From: Type 25. Build No.34
The Leave campaign are making it too easy at the moment for the Reaminers to comeup with gloomy economic forecast of what a post Brexit UK looks like. Mainly because they cannot or will not, articulate what they are going to try and negotiate, they cannot even agree amongst themselves.
Personally I'd like to know...
Are we staying in the Single market?
Are we therefore going to try and achieve an opt out from freedom of movement?
What is the maximum amount they are prepared to pay for access to the single market?
If we're not staying in the single market, then what trading arrangement do they want, and what are the likely economic consequences?
Who is going to conduct these negotiations (heavens forbid we end up with Boris Johnson as PM at the end of all of this)?
Why are they avoiding these basic questions?
It strikes me that what the Leave camp want is a referendum on immigration, because they are surely failing (or not even trying) on the economic arguments
Personally I'd like to know...
Are we staying in the Single market?
Are we therefore going to try and achieve an opt out from freedom of movement?
What is the maximum amount they are prepared to pay for access to the single market?
If we're not staying in the single market, then what trading arrangement do they want, and what are the likely economic consequences?
Who is going to conduct these negotiations (heavens forbid we end up with Boris Johnson as PM at the end of all of this)?
Why are they avoiding these basic questions?
It strikes me that what the Leave camp want is a referendum on immigration, because they are surely failing (or not even trying) on the economic arguments
Last edited by Martin2005; May 26, 2016 at 12:03 AM.
Scooby Regular
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From: Scooby Planet
i've been fortunate enough to be in a job that has taken me all over Europe,have my own place abroad.I've seen quite a bit on my travels over the last eleven years,people I've met,places I've stayed at,to sum up what my decision is.I could show you the dents on the side of my year old truck as a result of the countless times passing through Calais,or the pictures of vehicles with metal bars used as weapons smashed through the front windscreen.But Good luck Martin on all what you have said,if you are correct then jolly good and a pat on the back.Only time will reveal these things as it happens as to who is right and who is wrong.whatever the outcome is in June,we will have to go along with and live with it.
And yes God help us.
Scooby Regular
Joined: Nov 2003
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From: riding the crest of a wave ...
Sorry to hear that
Even more sorry say I can't see how* leaving eu would help with that particular scenario
Even more sorry say I can't see how* leaving eu would help with that particular scenario
Last edited by dpb; May 26, 2016 at 02:55 AM. Reason: * us
Scooby Regular
Joined: Nov 2007
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From: Scooby Planet
Well merkel and that lot hasn't exactly help allowing thousands more to come,but they obviously have a motive behind it all.Think this really is coming down to you either you believe/trust in what the EU are doing or you don't.whether that decision is based on what you read or listen to,or maybe what you actually see or experienced personally or a mixture of both,will have to wait and see how it all plays out.
Scooby Regular
Joined: Jul 1999
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http://www.pollstation.uk/eu-referendum/predictions
If we look at the last chart-Poll tracker excluding undecided
Then a clearly defined trend-tracking highs and lows - since June 2015 to where we are now , the leave option is gaining momentum
If we look at the last chart-Poll tracker excluding undecided
Then a clearly defined trend-tracking highs and lows - since June 2015 to where we are now , the leave option is gaining momentum
Scooby Regular
Joined: Mar 2000
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From: Weston Super Mare, Somerset.
This is the real question that I've yet to hear a reasonable answer to and therefore why I'm pro remain.
There are basically 4 options available from an economic perspective:
1. Norway solution = Member of the EEA
2. Swiss solution = Member of EFTA
3. Trading partnerships with EU/USA/China etc.
4. Standard WTO rules.
So, 1 & 2 don't work, because they are basically the current Status-Quo - we have to accept EU migrants and we have to pay for membership but we no longer get a say in how things are run. The idea that we would get a better deal than Switzerland or Norway is rediculous as it would mean that we are granted better conditions than all other member states and that's clearly not going to happen.
Number 4 also doesn't work as without any trade partnerships then our economy would collapse. We couldn't afford imports and nobody could afford our exports. The cost of living would sky-rocket, along with inflation and the value of the £ would collapse.
The only possible option that brings the changes the outers want and gives us a hope of survival is option 3. The big problem here, is the UK is a pretty tiny economy compared to combined EU economies, China, USA, even India. China recently made a deal with Switzerland that gives China immediate, unrestricted access to the Swiss market, yet on the Swiss side, they have to wait 15 years. There's no reason to believe the UK would get much of a better deal - maybe we get access in 10 years? The EU might be willing to offer a half decent trade deal, but with TTIP looming, at it will come sooner rather than later, then to both the USA and the EU, post TTIP, the UK will become more insignificant and devalue any possible trade deals. Certainly, both the USA and EU will be more eager to agree on TTIP than a deal with the UK. In reality, it will take many years, maybe up to a decade, to negotiate all the trade deals and even then it may be many more years before the markets are open to us. After 2 years we're out of the EU whatever, and if no trade agreements are in place, then we default to option 4 which will be a screw up!
And then there is the whole issue of the fact that all those troublesome EU regulations are actually on the UK statute book and will stay there post Brexit. In order to repeal any legislations would require an act of parliament which would first require a desire to make the change and then require a majority vote by the commons and finally a majorty vote by the Lords. I personally can't see many of the regulations being dropped, and those that are will be to the benefit of business and not to the workers or consumers.
There are basically 4 options available from an economic perspective:
1. Norway solution = Member of the EEA
2. Swiss solution = Member of EFTA
3. Trading partnerships with EU/USA/China etc.
4. Standard WTO rules.
So, 1 & 2 don't work, because they are basically the current Status-Quo - we have to accept EU migrants and we have to pay for membership but we no longer get a say in how things are run. The idea that we would get a better deal than Switzerland or Norway is rediculous as it would mean that we are granted better conditions than all other member states and that's clearly not going to happen.
Number 4 also doesn't work as without any trade partnerships then our economy would collapse. We couldn't afford imports and nobody could afford our exports. The cost of living would sky-rocket, along with inflation and the value of the £ would collapse.
The only possible option that brings the changes the outers want and gives us a hope of survival is option 3. The big problem here, is the UK is a pretty tiny economy compared to combined EU economies, China, USA, even India. China recently made a deal with Switzerland that gives China immediate, unrestricted access to the Swiss market, yet on the Swiss side, they have to wait 15 years. There's no reason to believe the UK would get much of a better deal - maybe we get access in 10 years? The EU might be willing to offer a half decent trade deal, but with TTIP looming, at it will come sooner rather than later, then to both the USA and the EU, post TTIP, the UK will become more insignificant and devalue any possible trade deals. Certainly, both the USA and EU will be more eager to agree on TTIP than a deal with the UK. In reality, it will take many years, maybe up to a decade, to negotiate all the trade deals and even then it may be many more years before the markets are open to us. After 2 years we're out of the EU whatever, and if no trade agreements are in place, then we default to option 4 which will be a screw up!
And then there is the whole issue of the fact that all those troublesome EU regulations are actually on the UK statute book and will stay there post Brexit. In order to repeal any legislations would require an act of parliament which would first require a desire to make the change and then require a majority vote by the commons and finally a majorty vote by the Lords. I personally can't see many of the regulations being dropped, and those that are will be to the benefit of business and not to the workers or consumers.
For the little it's worth I thank above is a well written assessment of the options available. Sadly there are some posting here who seem intellectually challenged and facts and common sense don't play a role.I would only add my concern that if that half-wit Trump wins then we can say goodbye to any help from USA if we divorce from Europe.
I also listen to Radio 5 quite a lot who work hard travelling around UK asking folk for their views. The volume of ignorance and prejudice is staggering and tbh I don't think UK is fit to hold a referendum. And Boris is definitely off my Christmas card list.
We do have two foreigners in our village and entre-nous I believe they are wholly responsible for the many rapes, burglaries and loss of hundreds of jobs in the area. And they had the gall to visit the doctors on one occasion. I ask you!!
dl - staying in!
Scooby Regular
Joined: Mar 2000
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From: Weston Super Mare, Somerset.
Scooby Regular
Joined: Nov 2003
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From: riding the crest of a wave ...
On a similar note you have wonder the good grace our little Englanders like alcazar for "propping up" the French rural economy, but low an behold he's not having Johnny foreigner over here
Probably change his tune soon as he discovers can't get his pension
Probably change his tune soon as he discovers can't get his pension
First off, I'm no little Englander, I have no axe to grind with CONTROLLED immigration, thanks very much.
What we don't need is the uncontrolled rush we've had thanks to Lying Labour, and the stupidity of EU rules that say we have to send benefits to foreign countries for family who have stayed there. etc etc etc etc.
As you well know.
And your last sentence makes no sense whatsoever. If people can move to AUSTRALIA and still have their pension, what's going to stop me? I shall simply have it paid into a UK bank account and move it myself. And that's IF the EU decided to play silly b*ggers, which they won't, because, as I stated, Brits are propping up rural France.
They NEED me and my ilk, and the french government aren't going to rock that boat...not if they are STILL defying the EU over TVA on renovations, FIFTEEN years after they were told not to
Scooby Senior
Joined: Dec 2000
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From: North Wales
Not ideal I will admit, but certainly not how you have portrayed it.
Scooby Regular
Joined: Nov 2003
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From: riding the crest of a wave ...
How would we replace the 6% workers in uk ,from the eu when we leave ?
non eu ?
( or drag back those retirees from spain /push idlers into working)
non eu ?
( or drag back those retirees from spain /push idlers into working)
Last edited by dpb; May 27, 2016 at 09:11 AM.
There are no rules that say they have to send the benefits, only that they can. Although that will still be the case, the benefits will be linked to the cost of living in the country where the person's children live.
Not ideal I will admit, but certainly not how you have portrayed it.
Not ideal I will admit, but certainly not how you have portrayed it.
