!! !! ATTENTION !! !! Lane Discipline !!
07 June 2002, 11:23 PM
#61
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I thought you may be. I have spoken to a couple of lorry drivers and they are very defensive on this subject, rightfully so! I understand what you say about trucks being the safest vehicles due to the high saftey criteria they have to meet/maintain. For me it's the sheer numbers of them that cause the problems.
I think we need to educate drivers more. You learn to drive, pass your test and then straight away you can drive on a motorway! That can't be right! When I learned to drive, motorway driving was bearly mentioned by my instructor.
Guy
I think we need to educate drivers more. You learn to drive, pass your test and then straight away you can drive on a motorway! That can't be right! When I learned to drive, motorway driving was bearly mentioned by my instructor.
Guy
07 June 2002, 11:28 PM
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Unless I suddenly buy a BWM, and squeeze in between the two lorries because I leave the motorway at the last moment 
I know what you are saying though.
What do you think to car drivers? What do you think they can do to improve the standard of driving?
You must find it ammusing when you see a car overtake and continue driving in the middle lane for the rest of the journey!!
I know what you are saying though.
What do you think to car drivers? What do you think they can do to improve the standard of driving?
You must find it ammusing when you see a car overtake and continue driving in the middle lane for the rest of the journey!!
07 June 2002, 11:41 PM
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Since you are all talking about one of my pet subjects and since the pubs are now closed
I have to agree that lane discipline in the UK is a total joke. Motorways and roundabouts, people seem to have a great problem with figuring out which lane they should be in. A friend complained to me that someone passed them on the inside lane of the motorway - answer had to be, if there was enough space for them to comfortably pass you on the inside why the f*** weren't you there yourself? I would strongly support any campaign to educate the masses.
I generally find lorry drivers to be well behaved in this situation, they always tend to stick to the left (especially HGVs, I have seen a few 7.5 tonners being a little bit less helpful on occasion). As with anything though, there are always a few bad apples - once in the fog and rain, I was doing about 30-40 mph on the M11 (about as fast as I could go safely in the conditions) with a HGV about six feet from my rear bumper. Trust me, the driver of that truck could NOT see further than I could, and probably would have driven right over my car and certainly killed me if we had came across an traffic queue
I have to agree that lane discipline in the UK is a total joke. Motorways and roundabouts, people seem to have a great problem with figuring out which lane they should be in. A friend complained to me that someone passed them on the inside lane of the motorway - answer had to be, if there was enough space for them to comfortably pass you on the inside why the f*** weren't you there yourself? I would strongly support any campaign to educate the masses.
I generally find lorry drivers to be well behaved in this situation, they always tend to stick to the left (especially HGVs, I have seen a few 7.5 tonners being a little bit less helpful on occasion). As with anything though, there are always a few bad apples - once in the fog and rain, I was doing about 30-40 mph on the M11 (about as fast as I could go safely in the conditions) with a HGV about six feet from my rear bumper. Trust me, the driver of that truck could NOT see further than I could, and probably would have driven right over my car and certainly killed me if we had came across an traffic queue
07 June 2002, 11:42 PM
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Make the driving test a lot tougher,you can teach anybody to pass the driving test but teaching someone to drive is a lot different,thats were the problem lies,the standard of driving IMO is bloody pathetic---------but sometimes entertaining.
07 June 2002, 11:50 PM
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You're right about the driving test!! A woman I work with passed after years of trying. Can she drive? Can she bollox drive!! She's like a rabit in the headlights when she's behind the wheel. An hour before her test she had to take something to calm her nerves as she was so nervous. I too was nervous but I think this highlights how unsuitable she is to be driving. Imagine her on the motorway in fog or spray? Scarey!!
By the way she is a lovley woman but I just wouldn't want to be on the road at the same time as her
By the way she is a lovley woman but I just wouldn't want to be on the road at the same time as her
08 June 2002, 02:53 AM
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Senior AP,
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Quote:
1) The chap that everybody is queuing behind is who I am talking about.
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Gotcha,
So this was one of those people who over take a truck 2MPH faster than said truck and create a queue 10 miles behind?? We like them!(not)
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Quote:
2) You should ONLY be on the outermost lane when overtaking therefore you should not queue as you are not overtaking.
3) Driving on the clear inside lane is not jumping the queue, it is driving according to how the highway code states "Keep left unless overtaking"
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Yes and no on that one,
Yes the highway code says keep left etc.. but how many times have you seen a line of cars on a busy dual cabbageway wait patiently behind the slow vehicle in lane one, take turns to overtake then move back smartly into lane one, all that happens if you wait in lane one is that someone else comes along, sits in lane two and doesn't let you out.
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4) Whether the guy who I went in front of was upset or not does NOT give him the right to accelerate dangerously fast up behind my rear bumper. I did not cut him up nor did I even begin to intrude on his braking distance space. He was, as you say angry that I "jumped the queue". However, there should NEVER be a queue if everybody drove using appropriate lane discipline which was my initial point.
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No there should never be a queue but sometimes there is, and the point I was trying to make is that all the people who were waiting in that queue, or the bloke in front who you reminded what his accellerator does, may have seen what you perceived as keeping left unless required etc.. as (and I'm not saying it's right as I experience this myself) as some **** in a sports car who can't wait his turn.
His actions were unacceptable but it's not worth letting it get to you.
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It was a two laned dual carriageway all the way, it did not narrow from two to one lane - what makes you think it did??
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I didn't, I was using it as another example of when motorists generate hostility towards themselves by queue jumping.
Have a nice day
Dave
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Quote:
1) The chap that everybody is queuing behind is who I am talking about.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Gotcha,
So this was one of those people who over take a truck 2MPH faster than said truck and create a queue 10 miles behind?? We like them!(not)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
2) You should ONLY be on the outermost lane when overtaking therefore you should not queue as you are not overtaking.
3) Driving on the clear inside lane is not jumping the queue, it is driving according to how the highway code states "Keep left unless overtaking"
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Yes and no on that one,
Yes the highway code says keep left etc.. but how many times have you seen a line of cars on a busy dual cabbageway wait patiently behind the slow vehicle in lane one, take turns to overtake then move back smartly into lane one, all that happens if you wait in lane one is that someone else comes along, sits in lane two and doesn't let you out.
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4) Whether the guy who I went in front of was upset or not does NOT give him the right to accelerate dangerously fast up behind my rear bumper. I did not cut him up nor did I even begin to intrude on his braking distance space. He was, as you say angry that I "jumped the queue". However, there should NEVER be a queue if everybody drove using appropriate lane discipline which was my initial point.
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No there should never be a queue but sometimes there is, and the point I was trying to make is that all the people who were waiting in that queue, or the bloke in front who you reminded what his accellerator does, may have seen what you perceived as keeping left unless required etc.. as (and I'm not saying it's right as I experience this myself) as some **** in a sports car who can't wait his turn.
His actions were unacceptable but it's not worth letting it get to you.
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It was a two laned dual carriageway all the way, it did not narrow from two to one lane - what makes you think it did??
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I didn't, I was using it as another example of when motorists generate hostility towards themselves by queue jumping.
Have a nice day
Dave
08 June 2002, 10:37 AM
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I also feel strongly about lane discipline. I reckon the reason for queues developing in the outside lane is because there's probably slower vehicles in the middle and inside lanes so everyone is joining the queue in the outside lane to get past. Annoying as hell, but hey what can you do!
Another thing that annoys me is “The Centre Lane Owners Club”. You know the sort of thing I mean; It’s a qiuet stretch of motorway, you’re driving along at 70 in the inside lane and you come across some git hogging the middle lane at 50. So what do you do? Do you cross all three lanes to overtake, or do you just carry on where you are? I’m sure we’ve all come across that scenario before.
Another thing that really annoys me, is people driving far to close to the vehicle in front. At motorway speeds this is totally unacceptable. I can understand why it happens though. Drivers don’t want anybody from the inside lane to get in front of them. I think it’s a potential accident situation.
Another annoyance, is farmers taking their tractors onto single lane trunk routes at peak times. This happens a lot where I am. What happens is that a 15 mph queue builds up behind the tractor. Everybody is playing follow the leader and driving too close together so its impossible to overtake, and get SAFELY back in lane when the opposite carriageway is clear for an overtaking move. It means I just have to join the queue. The tractor driver is oblivious to the frustration he’s causing, and doesn’t have the courtesy to pull over for a couple of minutes.. Isn’t there a limit as to how far a farm tractor can be driven on public roads? Anyway it’s so frustrating when I’m in the car, great fun when I’m on the bike.
David
Another thing that annoys me is “The Centre Lane Owners Club”. You know the sort of thing I mean; It’s a qiuet stretch of motorway, you’re driving along at 70 in the inside lane and you come across some git hogging the middle lane at 50. So what do you do? Do you cross all three lanes to overtake, or do you just carry on where you are? I’m sure we’ve all come across that scenario before.
Another thing that really annoys me, is people driving far to close to the vehicle in front. At motorway speeds this is totally unacceptable. I can understand why it happens though. Drivers don’t want anybody from the inside lane to get in front of them. I think it’s a potential accident situation.
Another annoyance, is farmers taking their tractors onto single lane trunk routes at peak times. This happens a lot where I am. What happens is that a 15 mph queue builds up behind the tractor. Everybody is playing follow the leader and driving too close together so its impossible to overtake, and get SAFELY back in lane when the opposite carriageway is clear for an overtaking move. It means I just have to join the queue. The tractor driver is oblivious to the frustration he’s causing, and doesn’t have the courtesy to pull over for a couple of minutes.. Isn’t there a limit as to how far a farm tractor can be driven on public roads? Anyway it’s so frustrating when I’m in the car, great fun when I’m on the bike.
David
08 June 2002, 11:00 AM
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Just want to add my tuppence worth. After driving in the States where there are about 5 rules of the road and not 500 like over here generally everyone is so much more chilled and yes I have driven in LA. You can pass on any side and go right on a red which is fantastic. So I would ban lorries to the indside lane or no overtaking they are usually restricted to 56mph anyway to save fuel. Allow overtaking in any lane (starting to become the norm!), and allow turning left on a red at some junctions. Bet you everyone would become a lot less stressed.
08 June 2002, 11:33 AM
#77
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1) Lorries do cause hold ups BUT they are an integral part of the UKs infrastructure. Without them shops would be empty, petrol stations would be empty....the list goes on.
2) If I make a mistake and p!ss somebody off I will hold my hands up and apologise - If I **** up, I'll own up.
3) Driving too close is wrong. It is not hard and impares everybodies vision, including the person doing it.
4) Undertaking is generally wrong. Going faster in clearer, inner lanes is 100% acceptable. If eveybody had proper lane discipline this scenario would never happen as the inner lane would be busiest always.
5) AGAIN. I Drive a BMW and you CANNOT generalise about who does this lane hogging thing. You simply notice it more when it is a BMW etc that is doing it....example:-
"Look at that idiot in the BMW hogging the lane"
"Look at that idiot in the CAR hogging the lane".
It seems to only become a BMW "thing" when a BMW is doing it.
YOU CANNOT GENERALISE. It is not the fault of lorries. It is not the fault of expensive cars. It is not the fault of cheap cars. It is not the fault of young people. It is not the fault of old people....
....it is the fault of "People Generally" regardless of age, sex, and the car they happen to posses.
2) If I make a mistake and p!ss somebody off I will hold my hands up and apologise - If I **** up, I'll own up.
3) Driving too close is wrong. It is not hard and impares everybodies vision, including the person doing it.
4) Undertaking is generally wrong. Going faster in clearer, inner lanes is 100% acceptable. If eveybody had proper lane discipline this scenario would never happen as the inner lane would be busiest always.
5) AGAIN. I Drive a BMW and you CANNOT generalise about who does this lane hogging thing. You simply notice it more when it is a BMW etc that is doing it....example:-
"Look at that idiot in the BMW hogging the lane"
"Look at that idiot in the CAR hogging the lane".
It seems to only become a BMW "thing" when a BMW is doing it.
YOU CANNOT GENERALISE. It is not the fault of lorries. It is not the fault of expensive cars. It is not the fault of cheap cars. It is not the fault of young people. It is not the fault of old people....
....it is the fault of "People Generally" regardless of age, sex, and the car they happen to posses.
08 June 2002, 11:39 AM
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apkadb -
I do believe that the the two main culprits for "Squeezing between two lorries and leaving the motorway at the last possible minute"....
...are you and Rusty1977 !!
"Blue Laguna causes havoc as fisticuffs happen on the road with a white van.mpg"
You drive with "AP" !! You taught me everything I know!!
I do believe that the the two main culprits for "Squeezing between two lorries and leaving the motorway at the last possible minute"....
...are you and Rusty1977 !!
"Blue Laguna causes havoc as fisticuffs happen on the road with a white van.mpg"
You drive with "AP" !! You taught me everything I know!!
08 June 2002, 07:24 PM
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Rant time - tart in red clio on Blackwater Valley dual carriage way today. Came up behind her (ooh-err) in the outside lane and although she has plenty of time to move over and let me past before having to pass another car she still stays in the outside lane. Anyway, this carries on and when I see my junction approaching I move to the inside and indicate left and begin to pull along-side. Next thing she's indicating left and I hit the brakes as she moves across. Blast of the horns from me and she gives me a v-sign for my trouble! Mouthed a few choice words at her as I went past on the slip road.
Aaaaaaaarrrrrrrrghhhhhhhh Why can't some people realise that others want to just get past with as little hassle as possible? It's so simple - mirror, signal, maneuver(sp.) and no worries.
DP.
Aaaaaaaarrrrrrrrghhhhhhhh Why can't some people realise that others want to just get past with as little hassle as possible? It's so simple - mirror, signal, maneuver(sp.) and no worries.
DP.
08 June 2002, 07:50 PM
#81
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I personally think getting rid of all bm drivers would be a goood start 
Seriously, they are jumped up rep mobiles (all our reps have em - the **** about who gets what and why is unbelievable)
They think they own the friggin road. On the M53 on the way home where it goes from 3 lanes to 2 at the bend (some of you may know it) they try and shoot up the outside lane at silly speeds and really cut you up to get in in time, despite the fact that had they done the manover slightly earlier there would have been no probs whatsoever. Taught a 318 a lesson he will never forger (WEG)
I think that they think its cool to shoot up the outside to the very very last second because ive got a cool car (they arent at all imho) (I reckon that most beemers are also company owned not driver owned)
Seriously, they are jumped up rep mobiles (all our reps have em - the **** about who gets what and why is unbelievable) They think they own the friggin road. On the M53 on the way home where it goes from 3 lanes to 2 at the bend (some of you may know it) they try and shoot up the outside lane at silly speeds and really cut you up to get in in time, despite the fact that had they done the manover slightly earlier there would have been no probs whatsoever. Taught a 318 a lesson he will never forger (WEG)
I think that they think its cool to shoot up the outside to the very very last second because ive got a cool car (they arent at all imho) (I reckon that most beemers are also company owned not driver owned)
08 June 2002, 08:32 PM
#82
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CHILL.......
Have a smoke
Turn the Marley up!
Youll get there in the end.
Anger management classes help,youll never get these people to change so dont try!
Have a smoke
Turn the Marley up!
Youll get there in the end.
Anger management classes help,youll never get these people to change so dont try!
08 June 2002, 08:43 PM
#84
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...you just notice it more when it is a BMW that is doing it.
I find it is usually middle of the road cars (no pun intended) the likes of Mondeos, 405's, Vectras. Generally.
But everyone does it though. Regardless of anything. There is no correlation. The only thing that they all have in common is they think like sheep.
"...quick, join M1, get in fast lane....fast lane...fast lane...follow that bloke; yeah him in the fast lane"
I find it is usually middle of the road cars (no pun intended) the likes of Mondeos, 405's, Vectras. Generally.
But everyone does it though. Regardless of anything. There is no correlation. The only thing that they all have in common is they think like sheep.
"...quick, join M1, get in fast lane....fast lane...fast lane...follow that bloke; yeah him in the fast lane"
08 June 2002, 09:03 PM
#85
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Same problem in Australia. Cars hogging the fast lanes on motorways.
Big difference in Greece. They don't hog that lane. Sometimes I see cars with plates from another country who may be here on holidays, hogging the fast lane and the fast cars just about run them off the road.
The faster cars beep and flash and practically give you a tap on the bumper. It's great! I'm glad that lane hogging problem I used to encounter in OZ is gone.
Cheers,
Wrexy.
Big difference in Greece. They don't hog that lane. Sometimes I see cars with plates from another country who may be here on holidays, hogging the fast lane and the fast cars just about run them off the road.
The faster cars beep and flash and practically give you a tap on the bumper. It's great! I'm glad that lane hogging problem I used to encounter in OZ is gone. Cheers,
Wrexy.
08 June 2002, 09:29 PM
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I don't like the american way, overtake in whatever lane you like. I think if people used our way properly it would be far better, it's just soo annoying that it would only take a little comon sense to change it all[img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
06 July 2002, 07:16 PM
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I am extremely P!SSED OFF.
I drive from Junction 15 to Junction 8 of the M1 and back daily (I car share with DAVYBOY and two other guys). I am so p!ssed off with peoples lane discipline it is making me go mad. Whether the motorway is busy or whether it is F$CKING EMPTY people STILL drive on the outside lane, queing up like TW&TS when the middle lane and inside lane have NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING on them AT ALL!!! People must not see the other lanes, particularly the inside lane which I now found to be overall the fastest now as it is always doing a nice constant 60mph.
What P!SSES me off even more is when I drive ACCORDING TO THE HIGHWAY POXY CODE on the inside lane and use the middle and fast lanes for overtaking I get 1) Flashed at 2) Beeped at 3) Hand gestures. All by people who are themselves in the F$CKING WRONG!!!!!
Today I was driving home on a two lane dual carriageway when I encountered a queue of traffic on the outside lane. I merely continued along the inside lane, where I was in the first place and basically drove past over 15 cars until there was a slow lorry on my lane. I indicated and waited for a good clear space to join the (at this point) faster lane. The car behind me on the outside lane actually...wait for it...!accelerated! upto my rear bumper and started flashing his sh!tty headlights and beeping his f$cking horn. I did NOT cut him up or undertake him at all. The bloke was a complete T0SSER so I just ignored it, overtook the lorry and pulled back into the inside lane and continued to make excellent progress whilst all the other idiots sat at 40mph in a big queue.
You cannot generalise either. Men, women, old, young, good car, crap car....everyone (most anyway, just upset) does it and I really am sick of it.
Police - Please introduce a new TV advert called lane discipline. Very simple.
INSIDE LANE = DRIVING.
MIDDLE LANE = DRIVING/OVERTAKING (depending on Lorry situation)
OUTSIDE LANE = OVERTAKING (OR DOING VERY HIGH SPEEDS IN FERRARIS ETC)
Aaaaaaaaaaagggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!! TW&TS!!!!!
[Edited by Senior_AP - 6/7/2002 7:22:33 PM]
I drive from Junction 15 to Junction 8 of the M1 and back daily (I car share with DAVYBOY and two other guys). I am so p!ssed off with peoples lane discipline it is making me go mad. Whether the motorway is busy or whether it is F$CKING EMPTY people STILL drive on the outside lane, queing up like TW&TS when the middle lane and inside lane have NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING on them AT ALL!!! People must not see the other lanes, particularly the inside lane which I now found to be overall the fastest now as it is always doing a nice constant 60mph.
What P!SSES me off even more is when I drive ACCORDING TO THE HIGHWAY POXY CODE on the inside lane and use the middle and fast lanes for overtaking I get 1) Flashed at 2) Beeped at 3) Hand gestures. All by people who are themselves in the F$CKING WRONG!!!!!
Today I was driving home on a two lane dual carriageway when I encountered a queue of traffic on the outside lane. I merely continued along the inside lane, where I was in the first place and basically drove past over 15 cars until there was a slow lorry on my lane. I indicated and waited for a good clear space to join the (at this point) faster lane. The car behind me on the outside lane actually...wait for it...!accelerated! upto my rear bumper and started flashing his sh!tty headlights and beeping his f$cking horn. I did NOT cut him up or undertake him at all. The bloke was a complete T0SSER so I just ignored it, overtook the lorry and pulled back into the inside lane and continued to make excellent progress whilst all the other idiots sat at 40mph in a big queue.
You cannot generalise either. Men, women, old, young, good car, crap car....everyone (most anyway, just upset) does it and I really am sick of it.
Police - Please introduce a new TV advert called lane discipline. Very simple.
INSIDE LANE = DRIVING.
MIDDLE LANE = DRIVING/OVERTAKING (depending on Lorry situation)
OUTSIDE LANE = OVERTAKING (OR DOING VERY HIGH SPEEDS IN FERRARIS ETC)
Aaaaaaaaaaagggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!! TW&TS!!!!!
[Edited by Senior_AP - 6/7/2002 7:22:33 PM]
06 July 2002, 07:26 PM
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SiDHEaD - You know where I am coming from then. Lorries have a tough time of it I think, slow and crap but I must agree that when one is overtaking 0.00001mph faster than the other it causes big problems.
Biggest problem I still think is "people generally". If people had lane discipline there would be far less traffic jams.
Keep left!! It really is that poxy simple.
F$CKING HELL I AM SO F$CKING P!SSED OFF WITH THESE TW&TS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(sorry for the swearing).
[Edited by Senior_AP - 6/7/2002 7:27:23 PM]
Biggest problem I still think is "people generally". If people had lane discipline there would be far less traffic jams.
Keep left!! It really is that poxy simple.
F$CKING HELL I AM SO F$CKING P!SSED OFF WITH THESE TW&TS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(sorry for the swearing).
[Edited by Senior_AP - 6/7/2002 7:27:23 PM]
06 July 2002, 07:40 PM
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Again, I've found that you cannot generalise.
Minis, Novas, Astras, Mondeos, 5 series, Vans, Lorries, Mobile f$cking houses!!!!!!
THEY ALL B&STARD DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[Edited by Senior_AP - 6/7/2002 7:40:45 PM]
Minis, Novas, Astras, Mondeos, 5 series, Vans, Lorries, Mobile f$cking houses!!!!!!
THEY ALL B&STARD DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[Edited by Senior_AP - 6/7/2002 7:40:45 PM]