still not found a photo/picture of adam n eve without belly buttons

 

What's your understanding of Adam and Eve?

 

I couldn't help but have a bit of a giggle at this:

http://www.irishexaminer.com/examvir...re-344793.html

 

What was is that made you giggle, Mark? Was it that the pentagram is inverted above Baphomet, but pointing up on it's forehead? Talk about mixed messages!

 

James where do you think we (humanity) are in relation to the appearance of the four horsemen of the apocalypse?

 

Are we talking literally or figuratively? If it's the former, you have the wrong man, if it's the latter (and with me knowing you and vice versa I suspect it is) then you're asking me to prophesy, which is beyond my gifts. What's your view, Maz?

 

With current world events it's hard to view the future as anything but dystopian wether one is religious or not. I think the next few decades will determine our future for the centuries to come. Even using allegory the four horsemen concept can be applied to the general course of mankind today. Albeit it would be brother pestilence and not conquest.

 

If I were to speculate I think it would be reasonable to place horsemen Conquest and War in North Africa, the Middle East and South Asia, substituting materialism and false prophets accordingly. The danger of course is that seers and harbingers have equated all manner of historical figures with the Antichrist, whether it be Nero, Mohammad, the Pope, Napoleon or Hitler. This leaves a lot of false starts and I can't imagine why today's misery is any different from the past's.

I do think that ultimately we're heading for a better place, I genuinely and sincerely believe that good will see off evil, it's just that there'll be extraordinary personal and corporate pain to be overcome in getting there. For me, this is what John of Patmos was illustrating in Revelation: outward-looking and selfless and loving goodness always defeats that which is turned in on itself and selfish and hate-filled. This is our hope.

 

And therein lays the genius of religion, compliance without question

Social control while appeasing the existential crisis of the individual. Jesus the Shepard even calls you sheep, wake the **** up and join the human race. Be a good person because you're a good person, not because some made up **** legitimises it.

 

Religion and politics, guaranteed to add fuel to any fire and cause an inferno

 

According to some estimates, there are roughly 4,200 religions in the world. So Muslims and Christians are atheist towards 4199 gods yet are unquestioning in their own. Makes perfect sense. Just need to be atheist in regards to one more and we can all get along fine without it

 

Indeed, everyone on Earth is an ahteist, some just have one less god to deny than me

 

Just like satelite TV, thousands of channels but f**k all of interest being shown.

 

Exactley. Bunch of loons

 

I was going to let this go, but it's so absurd I feel compelled to respond. What you've created here is a catch-22; me saying there's no evidence of a conspiracy is, for you, evidence of a conspiracy.

 

"The country where disabled people are beaten and chained"


"The people I met during my trip were mostly devout Christians, but who had imported traditional beliefs to shape the way they explain disability. It soon dawned on me that for many people, disability was considered not a physical or mental impairment, but in fact a spiritual sickness or curse that could either be healed by prayer or by confinement, and in some cases by physical violence."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-ouch-33523742

Nice!!!!

 

What's your point?

 

Best to just let it go. I've come to the conclusion there are several things that shouldn't be debated on the internet (especially car forums), one is religion and the other is politics.

 

I try to avoid discussing religion (failed here) for two reasons. The same two reasons why I do not believe in God:
1. I am not a child who believes in mythical creatures.
2. I do not need a crutch to lean on.

 

Well, I hear you, but you and I have had a number of exchanges that haven't degenerated in to tautology, conflation and absurdity. And that's rather the point; I actually think that truth springs from argument amongst friends (the dialectic), but people need to stick to the rules, they need to play fair. If this is done, politics and religion can be tackled. Still, as you say, this is a car forum, it certainly isn't the Oxford Union.

 

Proves my point quite nicely. Thanks

 

To be honest, at least this God talk got people posting here. Look at this place now, it's dead here since this conversation has halted. You might as well carry on. Paradoxically, this place sees movement with the power of resistance.

 

I'm also a little late to the party I guess but here's my two groats worth. Whilst JTaylor is obviously a very intelligent individual and his replies are eloquent, informative, and grammatically well written, they are, as far as I'm concerned, full of inane, useless drivel one would come to expect of someone with a delusional mental illness. It's frightening to think that in this day and age there are people out there that still believe in this absolutely ludicrous nonsense. (And especially frightening that they would put this myth before their wife and children!)
Some excellent responses from the likes of Uncle Creepy, hodgy0_2 and john banks, to name but a few. To reply to the absolute hogwash spouted regarding the scriptures and its archaic language and obscure references takes some doing, especially as well written as they were. As with most things twisted from the scriptures it's all very ambiguous and leans towards whatever argument it will fulfill at the time. The bible requires a tremendous amount of imagination and a willingness to assign new meanings to words.
Indoctrination is a powerful tool and people will take things as 'gospel' when indoctrinated from a young age. The thing is, Christianity actually borrowed its central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions. There are many other deities that have striking similarities but easily predate Jesus (Horas, Attis, Zoroaster, Glycon, Heracles.. I could keep going for a while here) Mithras is almost identical. Blinkered christians know this but still refuse to see the deceit. Utter madness.
These are but some of the major problems I have with (but not defined to) Christianity, and to me, they provide overwhelming reasons for its abandonment. I also believe that had JTaylor been born and brought up in an Islamic country he would now be worshiping and defending Allah with the same passion.
I will always respect (to some extent) people who are good, loving and honest people who just want to believe what they were taught to believe from an early age as long as it doesn't affect other people in any way whatsoever.

 

To say JT is mentally delusional is stretching your point. I think if you approach this with an open mind you'll see that JT takes a more philosophical rather than a litteral approach to religion. What you deem as hogwash with regards to religious scriptures doesn't mean it has no value; others find deep meaning in them.

“Judging others makes us blind. By judging others we blind ourselves to our own evil and to the grace which others are just as entitled to as we are.”

 

Very valid points jonc and perhaps I was a little too harsh and judgmental in my initial ranting. I appologise. JT comes across very well and strikes me as a really nice guy deep down. I just struggle with the whole concept personally and always have from being a child.
The scriptures can't claim any moral ground as there's just as much evil in them as good. People will always find deep meaning where they choose to whether it be in the bible or any other fictitious fables.
I like that last quote but in all honesty, every time you hear anyone speak, you're making some sort of judgment about that person. There's simply no getting around it. You're making a judgment about me as you read this.

 

Christopher Hitchens, clever guy, if your faith is strong enough look into his work

 

No need to, fella, but if you insist I accept. For what it's worth Jon's quote isn't Biblical, but Matthew 7 1-3 is.

 

https://www.scoobynet.com/non-scooby...-hitchens.html

 

I disagree. To believe any of this stuff is mentally delusional, doesn't mean that JT is not a nice guy etc. He didn't say "I think JT is a git because....", it's quite different.

Also, having value, and having truth are two entirely different things. If I say to you "do not have sex with a magician's wife or he may perform an evil spell on you", it's clearly untrue, but it has allegorical value in so much as it says you are likely to suffer consequences if you **** someone else's wife.

So whilst there are some useful moral constructs in the Bible that have some value, it doesn't make any of it true, and it certainly doesn't offset all the nasty stuff.

Believing in magic is delusional, too.

 

To be delusional is to believe in something despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary. So unless you have emperical evidence or proof beyond any doubt of what JT says is complete gumph, it could be argued that you too could be deemed delusional. THE question is what is the "truth"? Everyone has different ways in trying to find an answer. I sometimes think about "existance" though I'm neither a believer nor a disbeliver of an all powerful and all knowing deity, though I er on the side of physical and observable rather than the metaphyscial transeding of nature.

History is written by the people of that era and I perhaps one could look at the bible as a recoding of that time in history when people had less understanding of the world and the uninverse we currently know. The gaps in their understanding being filled in with with what they interpreted with their "limited" knowledge and turn it into a morality tale. Doesn't mean the bible is pure fictiion and certain events didn't happen. Jesus could have been a clever magician for all I know; I have seen a magician turn water in wine in front of my eyes, I don't believe it to be miraculous or him to be the messiah, there must some logical explaination of how he did it, I just don't know what it is.