how to kill a thread dead,
MENTION THE FACT'S JOB DONE NO REPLY lmfao

 

I know, but you managed to ignore them and keep the thread going a little longer

 

wasn't having a pop at you martin, it's just the handwringers on here soon shut up when fact's are posted. there is no escaping them and the sooner someone proves that forced multiculturalism isn't working the better, in my line of work i meet lot's of them, the one's that are working are mostly here long enough to raise funds to build a home for themselves, as back home in rommania and poland it's not uncommon for 3 or more generations of family to all live under 1 roof. a pole working here on min wage will pay about £120 a month in tax, if however he has 3 kids he will get approx £190 every 4 weeks in child benefit. it's a known fact that by allowing them to work here we have created a 2 tier society over in poland

 

Ooops, Martin won't like that...nett loss.

 

Thats exactly why we need to tighten up the law on child benefits going abroad. Don't think I've ever defended that particular point.

Back to demographics though (and the inescapable fact). By 2025 there will be more people over 60 (and living longer) than people under 25. There will be 2 people in work for every person not (50 years ago it was over 20!).

Given that fact we need more economically active people or we're in the mire.

How would you propose solving this one?

 

there is no easy answer martin, the reason for 2 working now not 20 is commercial greed. when i left school machines where being made that would do the job of 10 men with only 1 working it. sadly the goverment back then like now where greedy and all they thought about was the shares divi they where in line for, hell they even allowed the companies to take the cost of said machine of their tax bill, as it was classed as capital investment, they are going one better now and plan on allowing these min wage immigrants to not pay tax, there are however things that can be done but wont.
1 FORCE THESE COMPANIES TO PAY CORP TAX OR SOD OFF
2 FORCE OUR OWN PASSENGERS BACK TO WORK
3 STOP IMPORTING PEOPLE TO DO JOBS OUR LOT ARE TO LAZY TO DO OR CANT AFFORD TO DO(DUE TO RENT BENEFITS ETC
4 MAKE COMPANIES PAY A PROPER WAGE,
heres 1 last fact for you all and heres whats so very wrong with our system,
i work 42.5 hours a week and am only 72.40 per month better off working
i have 2 disabled children and 1 normal we get more childrens tax credit than i get wages, so uk plc is sponsering the company i work for, good effort mr cammoron, the company should be paying me a proper wage, not sponging off the tax payer so they can employ me on the cheep

 

These are all good points, but the challenge of demography is fundamental to our future prosperity.

BTW, my experience of migrant workers is very different to the picture you paint. We hire lots of them, not because they're cheap (because they're not) but because they're good and there is an incredible shortage of natives with the necessary academic background and skills needed.
If we couldn't hire from across the EU we'd be screwed.
It's exactly the same picture in many many sectors of our economy.

Whatever way you cut it we have a shrinking number of young people in this country (relative to the size of the population. The realty is in years to come we will need lots more migrant workers to fill the jobs.

We already have nearly 1 million vacancies in the UK BTW.

 

Unfortunately life is not that simple or simply down to greed. It's more to do with being efficient keeping costs down and keeping up with competitors. If companies leave the UK, so do all the jobs, for example, HSBC leaving the UK will mean up to 8000 jobs losses and lost revenue generated from income tax and national insurance. The government have to balance taxation whilst keeping the UK competitive. Also you can't just simply force people back into work, the government are trying by cutting benefits to stop benefit claiming a lifestyle choice. We have to import skills, the NHS for example would collapse without the skills provided by immigrants. Forcing companies to pay a proper wage will either put companies out of business or reduce the size of their workforce. There are many other side effects to what you propose, though I'm not saying things shouldn't change, it's just that there are many factors involved and each change uniquely complex in that whilst you make changes that people want, there will be other people how will inevitably lose out.

As Martin points out, there is a huge demographic issue. The country has a massive £30bn pension black hole and we have an ever aging population and a gradual decline in the number of indigenous people able to work.

 

A £30bn pension black hole? Wasn't that about what ****-Brown raided from the pot? You know, when he was told it would cause problems along the line?

Anyway, Martin, just what is it you do that you need these skilled immigrants to employ? Our own experiences here are that they are either unskilled, or that they lie about their skills.

And a million vacancies? REALLY?????????

That sounds like government bullshine to me. There are certainly VERY few outside the SE and London.

Perhaps the "Northern Powerhouse" was more important than Osborne let on? But hey, it's cancelled..they are building yet more stuff for London.

 

Sorry for the long *** post, new format doesn't help.

This comes as no surprise to me, and I'm pretty sure it's just the tip of the iceberg, I know of quite a few people from out here in Croatia that have gone to the UK for work, thing is they don't have any special skills, 2 that I know personally are working in a bar in London, one of them can barely string a sentence together in english, saw him recently and he's still not much better after almost 1 year, but he's the man in his local village now with a fancy flick over haircut, drain pipe jeans and those silly canvas plimsole type things on his feet, proper London "fashion" clone, splashing cash like he's won the lottery, probably makes more in tips there in 1 week than he'd get wages here for a month.

The UK needs to get all these council estate doley's into work because they're the section of society that are breeding the most and producing the least, they're the leeches on the back of the average working man, it'll only get worse as it has done over the last few years, but again having spent a good part of my life in and around council estates, I could see it happening years ago, with 3 generations of scroungers in many many family's and that's probably closer to 4 generations these days, as the old live longer and the young breed ever earlier.

One woman I used to know was a grand parent at 34, she was one of 5 kids, none of her siblings had ever worked, all had houses or flats and kids, her mum was in her late 50's with 9 grand children and the one great grandchild, I doubt any of them will ever work and the great grandchild is probably close to reproducing now. The monthly cost to the working man to keep that family back then (maybe 15yrs ago) must be humongous, let alone what they cost over a lifetime, and that wasn't an isolated case, just one that I know personally to be factual, I'm sure it's a scenario that is repeated nationwide.

As for pensions are there people out there that seriously think they'll be able to survive on them in 15/20yrs time I have 16years left before I reach 65, no doubt they'll increase that by the time I get there, I stopped paying into my then opt out scheme when I saw it would be worth bugger all, and opted back in, just to get the minimum / qualification of 30yrs, since then I've been making my own arrangements for retirement and should be scratching my **** drinking a beer by my pool in the not too distant future.

Country's fooked, has been for a long while and it won't get better, my advice is get out while you can and are young enough to do something for your future, because the government and the system you're paying into sure as hell ain't going to take care of you, and if you think there's a problem now, wait and see what it'll be like in another 20yrs when you're old, fcuked and fodder for the scum.

 

I met an eastern European woman delivering charity plastic bags the other day while I was working. Clearly she's here doing a job that no-one from this country has the skills to do.

 

Fixed that for you.

 

UK pension 'black hole' is an estimated £1.3 TRILLION, Brown's crap policy is responsible for a fairly insignificant part of that.

We hire grads with either Stats/maths background. They do not lie about their background, not once, not ever. The job is too technical and theyd be found out pretty damn quick.

 

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/londo...-10354248.html

 

benefits paid to the unemployed = 8/9 Billion

benefits paid to people in work = 70 odd billion

when the government announce where the 12 billion of saving are coming from

things will get interesting

I expect a massive reduction in "in work" tax credits and disability benefit

 

The article is a tad excessive in it's assertion that it's deeply disrespectful, yet states they appear un aware of the monuments significance, which is a contradiction, how can they be disrespectful if they don't even know what it is. To be fair it makes the perfect dining table if you've got no chairs, folks should be pleased it's serving a purpose for those less fortunate, but instead the article seems to want to cause some sort of outrage.

 

It's highlighting the disconnect between these people, and the UK.

You don't have to be an English speaker to recognise a monument to the dead when you see one; the tablet they used as a dinner table even had the names of the victims inscribed.

I wouldn't expect them to know exactly who these people were, but I would expect them to not take a slash on what is obviously a monument.

I guess I'm just glad we have such people in our talent pool.

 

I doubt many of them even went to school, probably got zero concept of a memorial, they look like Bosnian or Albanian gypsies to me, even the few that do have a small amount of schooling probably still wouldn't know what you were talking about if you tried to explain it to them, poor ******* have nothing but the stuff they're walking around with, and probably pulled half of that out of skips and bins.

Is there no sympathy left in the world? these people are living like stray dogs and all people are concerned about is a slab of stone with some writing on it, seriously fcuked up world we live in.

 

You mean having regard to our memorials to the dead, a physical reminder of tragic events past so that we do not forget, is f***ed up? These kinds of things define a culture.

Perhaps the more pertinent question, is what the hell are these uneducated, unskilled, apparently poor people doing here.

 

They look like Romanians to me.

I've noticed that our local Big Issue sellers are now all Romanian women...good job, that.

 

I think you know exactly what I mean, but choose not to acknowledge it, the dead are gone and will be remembered in the minds of their loved ones. These people are alive, although it doesn't look like much of a life to me. Can you even begin to imagine how bad things must have to be to pack all you can carry and travel 2/3000 miles across Europe, just for the chance of a better life, then arrive and be thankful you have somewhere to sit, eat and sleep, and that place ends up being a memorial to dead people, yet is more important than your survival is to the locals.

That's a fcuked up world my friend, if you can't see that I'm done trying to explain it.

 

Sorry, I really don't understand your position.

Are you saying we shouldn't have memorials of any kind?

We should perhaps invest instead in housing beggars that arrive on our shores?

Genuine question.

 

I'm interested in that too.
It seems a perverse sort of stance to me.

 

Personally a person that is alive is more important to me than someones name on a piece of stone, and it seems to me as though the most important thing in this situation is the stone with peoples names written on it.

HTH.

As for memorials, knock yourself out, they mean nothing to me when compared to the life of a human being, regardless of what they represent.

Like I said in my previous post, people must be in a pretty bad state to up sticks with all they can carry and travel half way across Europe in the hope of a better life.

I hope some of you on this thread never find yourselves in such a situation and at the mercy of those as devoid of compassion as yourselves.

 

Perverse to care about fellow human beings, I'm disappointed in you if that's how you feel.

 

Your math is crap like most people in UK, he would pay a lot less tax
do You think he is able to save money for house building in eastern EU for minimum wage plus benefits?

 

Population up by 500,000 =Lots of bloody car washes .......

 

In the construction industry,i have seen first hand foreigners seriously undercutting British workers for contracts......

 

so the person who works for the goverment who takes ni and tax off me each month and the other 1 who gives the wife child benefit both are crap at math's are they ??? thats how much i pay and get
tax £78.80
ni £76.15
on £1297.58 per month thats £15550.96 per year
works out at £7.05 per hour just a tad over min wage
child benefir for 3 children is £192.40 every 4 weeks
now take into account the poles who work in a local factory to me get about the same so
£60 a week all in to live in a shared house (provided by employer)that leaves them with £192.40 plus about £700 every 4 weeks to send home, my maths still crap are they these people are customers of mine and have told me how much they send home and how long they intend to work in the uk

 

So they are sending home around €10,000 a year, when you consider the average wage PA in many of these countries is around half that, then one can certainly see the attraction.