bros

A couple of points to stir the pot ….


1) Someone who was equally good on a bike or in a car would be quicker on my Blade than in a P1. Fact, I’m afraid, unless the road is bumpy, gravelly, or wet. Then my dearly beloved 3 year-old daughter on her tricycle would be quicker than the biker.

2) “If you crash, you die.” Codswallop. I’ve crashed a good number of times, and I’m sitting here typing away. I’m not promoting crashing as a fun pastime, but it’s only fair to point out the realities rather than let you believe Jza’s rather apocalyptic statement.

3) “Don’t attempt a duel … you’re potentially saving the guy’s life.” Awww, thanks for tucking us up in cotton wool, cos bikers, well, we’re all so incompetent y’see. We just fall off all the time. By the time you’ve got to riding a Blade/R1/ZX-9/996/RSV you’re usually pretty experienced, and SHOULD know what you’re capable of. I certainly do, which is why I’ve backed right off on the roads – trackdays are cheap and road riding (other than at the IoM) is inevitably dog-slow in comparison

4) “Bikers get a red mist when they see a Scooby” Pass me the needle and cotton, my sides have split with laughter. IT’S A CAR, FOR HEAVEN’S SAKE. That means we don’t even see it as opposition. Another bike … now that’s a different story.

5) “It’s easier to push a car” To the garage when another engine fails? Seriously though, it’s difficult to use more than, say 60% of a bike’s abilities on the road. That 60%, however, is still a different performance envelope entirely to that of a car, albeit quite a quick one.

Bros

MattOz

Simon,

I'd take the Ferrari, and do a couple of stones at a time! LOL. What you say is absolutely right. The car, given variations in road conditons and type of surface would indeed, dynamically at least, be better off.

The only time I've come up against a McLaren F1 was some years ago, when I had a ZXR750 ( 95bhp model), and Mclaren were undergoing gearbox and air-conditioning testing near me. I had it off the roundabout onto the slip road of the M'way, but when I looked in the mirror at circa 150 ( sorry occifer), the Macca driver was offering a sandwich to his passenger whilst doing the Times crossword. Catch my drift?!

They are extremely fast cars, and at Bruntingthorpe I would be toasted, as I've only managed 172mph throught the timing lights after a standing start at the far end of the runway.

I think that above all, it should be remembered that the biker will ALWAYS come off worse if there is an accident, and provided bikers respect car drivers and vice versa, we'll all get along just fine.

Matt

cryptwalk

It seems to me that the sight of a impreza is too much for some bikers they seem to have to prove something.
This is the little incident between me and a insane gsxr rider, minding my own business trotting along home from work doing about 60 on a duel carridgeway when i spotted a purple light comming up FAST behind so i indicated and pulled over for him to pass but to my horror this fellow had foolishly decided the better option was to overtake me on the inside resulting in him hitting me bouncing off the side but managing to stay on his bike ( how i will never know he must of had a guardian angel).He then gave me the finger and shot onto the motorway that fast i didnt even clock his plate. There was no point putting myself at risk to catch him i was gutted at having to replace the cracked rear light and scrubbing with t cut to remove the plastic marks his fairing had left. One thing though at least i dont have a dead biker on my mind.
This is why i stick to my impreza and dirt bike, road bike's seem to make some people insane speed freaks who think they are invincible.

MattOz

Bros,

I had a Blade at the same time as my STI5 TypeR V-ltd, and I have to say that I definitely was quicker point to point on the bike. Knee down in the rain? No problem. Slides? Of course, but nothing that 10 yrs experience can't handle.

Like you, I've had the odd Incident, and have so far, touch wood, walked away. A case of wearing the correct gear I imagine. You can leave the cotton wool at home!

Now I loved my STI , even though it's long gone, but I love Bikes a whole heap more, because of the way they deliver acceleration, braking, cornering etc. I don't claim to be outrageously good on a bike, but certainly no Scooby driver would get close!

Matt

SDB

bros

Again, you're talking about a P1 which is maybe somewhere in the middle of the potential of a performance car to a Blade which is the absolute pinnacle of a few years back.

But even so...

When you say "of equal ability in car and bike"... what does that mean?

I ABSOLUTELY GUARANTEE that a really crap car driver will out perform a really crap bike rider. So at what point along the learning curve does the change happen? If at all.

I have no doubt that a skilled rider can out-perform an average road driver, and this is what we are comparing against mostly, because, as you say, most riders with that kind fo bike are pretty skilled and experienced...

You simply wouldn't stay alive very long otherwise.

The difference is.. anyone can jump into a scoob and drive it fair quickly.

Cheers

Simon

bros

cryptwalk (great name btw)

I'd imagine the average Micra driver could recount the great whoosh of speed as a Scoob bore down on them and whizzed pash with flames cracking out of the pipe.

Do you suppose they tell each other that Impreza drivers just get a red mist every time they see their fine Nissan stallions of the road .....

Bros

Jza

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by bros:
<B>A couple of points to stir the pot ….


2) “If you crash, you die.” Codswallop. I’ve crashed a good number of times, and I’m sitting here typing away. I’m not promoting crashing as a fun pastime, but it’s only fair to point out the realities rather than let you believe Jza’s rather apocalyptic statement.

Bros

[/quote]

Sorry mate, but you are definately living on borrowed time with those kind of sentiments.

Im glad you've survived the odd "incident" but i can guarentee that if you come off on a bend racing a scooby and live you are a lucky bugger.

Im sick of the old biker "ive got bigger ***** than you" bravado your preaching.

The facts are that if you wanna kill yourself do so by all means. But dont encourage others to "come on - give a bike a run for its money" on this BBS with comments like yours. Or anywhere for that matter. Next time someone sees a bike theyre gonna paint the biker with the same brush. We arent all nutter ars*holes who want to show a car a good lesson like you seem to imply. And you then make out crashing isnt too bad!!

Mmmm. Tell that to those two guys they scraped off the pavement.

The roads are a better place without bike baiters. Your really sad if you disagree with that. Why encourage it?? VERY VERY SAD!!!

To continue the debate, i think car drivers really need to get a bike licence to appreciate the differences between car driving and bike driving. Its not down to BHP etc. The skills needed are far more than just "throttle and brake". Road craft takes years to learn.

Jza

bros

Jza,

Now come on, no need to be tetchy. Calling me a nutter arsehole might be taken as a mite unfriendly by someone less tolerant than myself.

Your quote was "If you (as a biker) are stupid enough to race a Scooby or any car that matter then the fact is you ARE GOING TO DIE VERY SHORTLY." Well, it's not a fact, it's just a rather silly statement. To imply that bikers are all moronic speed freaks who don't know when to back off is suggestive to my mind that you should perhaps stick to four wheels. As you say, roadcraft takes years to learn - after 18 years on bikes I have in no way learned everything, but the first thing I realised was never to trust car drivers. In the main, they're tragically poor, and should be given a wide berth - hence my comment that I don't see Scoobs or any other car as "opposition". I ignore them as much as possible, that's all.

As for being sick of "the old biker "I've got bigger ***** than you" bravado you're preaching"? Look at the start of the thread - a driver boasting about how he'd kept a bike (almost certainly faster than him) at bay on country roads. Now who's claiming to have bigger *****?

Asking cars to come and have a go - dunno where you got this from. You'll notice that I've purposely NOT talked about how I humbled a Porsche etc (see different thread) as it might well be construed as a red rag to a bull.

Bros

Jza

Bros,

Sorry mate - didnt mean it to sound like i implioed you are an arsehole.

I disagree with you on the "your going to die" bit IMMENSLY. If you touch a scooby at 100mph and come off, your very lucky if you walk away. There are so many easy ways to die riding a bike on the road. It is very very easy. Go to the Cat and Fiddle pub and look at the map showing where all the bikers got seriously injured. And when you drive by the places they look really "innocent".

Racing cars is very bad news and no biker should promote it. Nor should we encourage other road users to dual motorcyclists with a "our bikes are fast and your sh1te" attitude which im afraid your threads implies.

We can both (bikes and cars) co-exist without any need for unneccessary risks.

Im not a preacher. Just want people to realise that fast bikes = fast danger for the biker. And hopefully on the way home tonight if they see a bike theyll listen to me and not you!!

Jza

bros

Simon,

Agreed, a crap driver versus a crap rider - the car will win every time.

The reason I mentioned a P1 is 'cos this is an Impreza site. I could equally well have mentioned a 911, Ferrari .... really, just about anything. The fact is that the average rider has access to any bike desired for around the £10k park, and there's probably no faster point-to-point car at vaguely affordable money than a P1. Perhaps an Evo VII, or an M3?

My point is that if an average rider uses say 60% of the acceleration, braking, cornering of a superbike, they'll still be travelling more quickly on your average road than a similarly driver using 80% of the potential of their more accessible performance. The car will be quicker on some sections, but in almost all circumstances slower overall.

This was proven to me some years back when I was on a favourite bit of road and overtook an Alpine A610 (remember them?). Mr Alpine didn't really like that, caught up, and decided to overtake at a point where I'd already backed off for an oncoming bend. I knew the road, knew there would be cow**** on the surface, and decided not to take the risk. The Alpine had an almighty slide, but didn't crash - I would have had I tried to keep up with him. On that section of road the car was clearly faster. Had I decided to go for it, I would certainly have been able to leave the guy well behind (faster on some sections, slower on others, but quicker overall). Discretion being the better part of valour, I let him go.

Bros (with ***** of steel)

Jza

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by bros:
<B>Simon,

I'd already backed off for an oncoming bend. I knew the road, knew there would be cow**** on the surface, and decided not to take the risk. The Alpine had an almighty slide, but didn't crash [/quote]

Your kinda making a point in your own point.

If you had have gone for it on the corner - not knowing there was cowsh1t on the road, you would have crashed.

Then you would have been asking the lord to be lenient as you scampered off into the ditch/into oncoming traffic.

You faster bike is no good in cowsh1t. Bikes cant get away with slides like cars can.

So the bikes only really good on well known roads and even then you have to respect the road more than on a car. So to say a bike is point to point quicker is a mistruth. Its all relative and different. And bikers face lots more danger going quickly.

I find that on a road i dont know, the scooby is less effort to go faster (but not as much fun!!). And the 60% limit your talking about doesnt beat a P1 in my opinion.

He's throwing it around the poor visability corners like a rally driver, whilst you (if you have any respect for your life) have to back off a bit incase some tractor/slow car/cowsh1t/obsticle is lurking around the corner waiting to get you. Remember - bikes dont like breaking on corners. In a car you can get away with it.

Only on the straights can you make up the ground.

With good visibility on the road, you dont have to worry as much, so the bike can use the power etc and leaves the car behind.

And then in the wet.... take the bus!!!


Jza

Grant.revan

Take a look at this it should end some of the arguements.

cryptwalk

Bros,
The name is off a dance that snoop and dre do i thorght it was cool cheers.
As for micra driver's i do ocasionally see red mist but only on open road's when the occupant's seem to be over 70 driving at 25 mph as i'm sure all impreza driver's do.
The problem with having a scoob is that they always seem to want to go faster it's like there saying come on put your foot down i'll rip ya arm's off if you let me.

Gary Foster

Cryptographer

I just have to ask, what in the world is snoop and dre ?!!?

Anyhow, I think you missed the subtlety of Bros post, he was equating your comments towards the biker with a nissan micra drivers sentiments after being overtaken by a scooby - ie Why in the world would a Scooby / Bike driver be interested in showing off to a Micra / Scooby driver

Cappiche ?

Gary

cryptwalk

Gary,
Snoop and dre are rap artist's.
My comment's on the bike rider was that he was a lunatic, i see your point though as a 70yr old micra driver would probably think i had a death wish when overtaking them at speed the mear sound of my car would give that impresion.