Vtec-Abuser

Religious mate.. Usually use Vpower (assuming that is what you meant?), but will use Tesco Momentum if there's no Shell nearby.

Littleted

Yeah I have to sometimes use Esso hence why I use 5 Luke at RENNtech said to me that..

Don't you fancy his stage 2, that will be madness I think. I remember doing a Laucnh when I got the car very impressive and fun, I then did it with the MAP on man the car was spinning all 4 for ages :/ fun though

Vtec-Abuser

Stage 2 is a no go for me as warranty will be out the window for sure.. Does look impressive though.

Shaun

Does the RENNtech box remove the speed limiter?

Vtec-Abuser

To my knowledge none of the boxes do unfortunately. That requires a proper ECU flash (as seen on the MSL vid).
I have had mine sat on the speed limiter when at The Ring last year and it stopped dead at 163-4mph. What was impressive is that my Vbox showed 163.5 Vmax, so just goes to show how accurate the speedo is on this car. Something that's not taken into account when people watch these pointless speedo comparison vids on You tube.

Littleted

you could always Ping Luke at RENNtech Shaun and ask, but I think what Vtec says is correct.

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

40bhp and 50lbft advantage yet slower, who would have thought it, and indeed it passes the SNET massives un-contested.

And yes it does show as highlighted in bold it's about the whole package.

Nice car btw, good colour too, also liking the red one.

Just out of curiosity and I know it's very subjective, but do you feel as though it's money well spent?

Littleted

I don't think about mine Ditchy I pay 90 quid a month less for this one than I did for the 2011 saloon.
I will never pay the 17k balloon as I'll prob chip it in for another or a C450, I'd have the C63 but no 4wd and I struggled in a RWD E350 God knows what a C63 will be like look,nice though if specced right....

I think if you ignore the cost but the monthly is ok, get one.it only matters if your Rockefeller and can afford to buy one, then I'd think about it lol....

500

Lovely car Shaun

Ted, you won't have a problem with a C63 if it has winter tyres and a LSD.

Shaun

Ted,
I would probably consider the C63....... but it won't fit in my garage.

500,
Thanks mate.

Ditch,
Mmmmmm....... this conversation could go on for some time.

Just to clarify, are you referring to "value" or "justification" when say about "money well spent"?

In my opinion they relate to two different things...... happy to reply to both context.

thenewgalaxy

Performance comparisons between the Cosworth and A45 are inevitable, I was waiting for this!

I've long said quite openly that I think the map on the Cosworth limits the performance massively. I've never dumped the clutch in my car but it is not an easy car to get off the line compared to other Imprezas, though it is very impressive in the mid range.

I won't be able to avoid the temptation to modify my car when the warranty expires in a couple of months but I certainly won't be going nuts. What I will be doing though, is making the car a little more focussed than it actually is.

The A45 seems to have got most things right straight out of the box, something a lot of the other mega-hatches haven't quite achieved.

Shaun

TNG,
You'll probably find it's due to the size of the turbo, in respect of getting the launch "right". You really have to keep the revs constant, and get some clutch slip to get the turbo on song and get your tyres to break traction. As you say it's not easy, and you have to be somewhat brutal. Clutch and accelerator pedal timing is key. The A45 is a walk in the park (apparently) as the launch control provides a perfect and repeatable launch method. Personally, whilst I may actually try it once or twice, it's not something that really interests me..... although I wouldn't mind giving it a punt down Santa Pod. With the launch control and auto sports mode on the box, I can nod off on the line and be asleep by the 1/4m marker. That would be nice, instead of sweating like a mad man, like I used to when at the drag start line many years ago. lol

If I were you I'd leave it as it is, warranty in place or not. The car is surely plenty quick enough.

thenewgalaxy

Yeah, can't say I'm fond of murdering a gearbox to see how quickly I can get to to 60mph. I just quote the blurb from Subaru's website... not that I even come close to believing it.

The performance figures for both of these cars are impressive but it amazes me that something like an A45 can produce manufacturer's figures or better time after time, in the hands of relative amateurs (usually quoted times involve the stig et al).

I'll be mapping it regardless of performance objectives, I obviously have a desirable figure in my head for a torque increase across the range but I don't believe these cars should have been given a generic map for the engine that was put in.

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

It has to be value really as all us petrol junkies will invent many ways to justify our purchases.

Oh and as for telling NGW that you'd leave it standard, as a mate once said to me, " save the BS for the Mrs"

Shaun

PMSL at Ditch - I did actually think to myself when I typed "Yeah bull**** Shaun!!!!".

TNG,
Well it makes a change for achieved figures to actually be less than manufacturers. lol

Shaun

****.... that's the boring one to answer.


I can only make comment on the deal I had.


I paid £37,350 with no financial/interest charges attached, so we're talking the price of the vehicle only in respect to value.


Now.... £37k is in my opinion, an obscene amount of cash for a hatchback, regardless of what it is, what it does or who it's made by.


In total isolation being about this car..... I would say, to me, it's not value for me.


If you took this one step further and talked about the true cost of this specification of car, which had it been new (only 4 months younger, with zero miles instead of the 2.5k mine had), you're talking over £44k value. That just makes it's VFM even more offensive.


It's a good job VFM wasn't at the top of my list for consideration. lol

thenewgalaxy

What did you do with your Hawk, Shaun?

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

Good question, I was going to ask that.

I'd also ask how does it compare and do you find the AMG a little tame and clinical / automated, the reason I ask is I kind of like my cars a little raw and basic, electronics irritate me.

Shaun

Technically still own it mate, but it will be the property of it's new owner next week.

thenewgalaxy

Lucky person!

Shaun

Ditch,
It's one of the reasons why the Hawk went....... I didn't like the agricultural nature of it anymore. Once I drove the A45, the nail was in the Hawks coffin.

In many ways there is no comparison with the A45, as they are so different in a number of ways, but are similar in others.

The A45 is new, modern/current and a more premium vehicle. It is deceptively quick, and is a great point and shoot vehicle. The stats don't do it justice, in respect of how quick it is on the road and how easy it is to drive. Yet it is extremely agile and focussed...... just not as raw as the Scoob.

If I'm being honest...... I think I had out grown the Scoob in a number of ways. Fantastic cars, but it was time to move on.

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

Yeah I get that from your point of view since you have been there and done everything as far as scoobs are concerned, I can totally relate to wanting something fresh out of the box and a little luxury thrown into the bargain.

I do get these new breed of luxury hot hatch catering to the more mature petrol head with a few spare quid.

I tried the weekend warrior/track car and running a daily driver route but it just didn't work out for me due to time and family, also like yourself I came from a biking background, both off and on road bikes but that game is just too dangerous when you have a kid and Mrs.

It all taught me a great deal about myself and cars though, which is how I ended up in a WRX wagon with PPP, how the mighty have fallen to relate to Matts beaters thread, there's a lot to be said for driving a car you don't care too much about that has a bit of poke and is not so well sorted as that's all part of the fun.

Carnut

Ditch, two things, the A45 AMG has been known to have more bhp than reported (so Ted says) so not such a big gap, and secondly, the figures for the CS400 posted in Shauns post would seem to be a bit off. The 0-60 time of the CS400 is 3.7 although you may find different results.
The 22b in the vid (earlier page) got a much much better start than the CS400 but despite that the CS400 came passed the 22b with some conviction. (22b is reported as doing 0-60 in 4.6, same as A45 AMG)

Do feel silly saying this though, different cars really, with different gearboxs etc.

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

I find it interesting regardless of the stats and considering some of the arguments that happen on here about cars that have more power and would seem on paper to "have it in the bag" so to speak yet the reality is something totally different.

It says the guy in the Cosworth had 7 attempts and couldn't get past until 120/130mph, translate that to a B road with a decent driver and it could quite easily equal a serious *** whooping, obviously not going to be the case with a rolling start as the ground the Cosworth was able to make up once moving was very impressive to say the least. It can also be very tricky to get the best out of a car like that when you've not lived with it for a while, something I really learned owning the Type R.

Most people think that a decent chunk of power and AWD means your going to wipe the floor with most things out there but it's really not the case in the real world, which is why I highlighted the sentence about the "whole package" It's also why I think these type of modern hatches have come into being with all the fancy electronics as your average joe would probably bin it without them.

One of the A45 tests I've been watching shows a guy switching all the driver aids off and giving it beans on track, he very quickly gets it wrong goes into a tank slapper for a nano second and touches the brakes at which point the electronics take over again and sort it for him, something which greatly amuses me.

It is however quite amazing what they can do these days with the modern technology in these cars which make heros of ham-fisted average Joes, I'm not sure it's such a good thing making a weapon that is capable of hurtling down the road at silly speeds and putting it in the hands of the masses, at least with something like my Type R you had to learn to respect it and how to drive it, with all this technology it's just not the case anymore, I'd probably really struggle to stay anywhere near one of these on a B road with a Type R running 350bhp, I'd be on the ragged edge and the A45 wouldn't know it was in a race.

Shaun

Ditch,
The thing is, is when I first got in to Scoobs it was similar in some respect to how people see other hot hatches like the A45 now. The people buying Scoobs back in 2000 were IT geeks (I was one of them lol), who had I would suggest a disposable income that allowed them to get the newest breed of performance car. They were in to modifying and playing with these cars, and at the time Scoobs were seen as being quite soulless and RS wannabe like. It was a slightly different breed of owner from the, at the time, "true" petrolheads that were the RS boys - this was a scene that I came from.

I think this will continue to happen through time. New cars come out and new communities start. The GTR is probably the most recent marque that has seen a ground swell in this area.

My personal circumstances are that I don't have kids, so in many ways provides me an opportunity to do what I do. If I had kids, I would probably be in a totally different situation with my cars.

My other half can't even drive, which makes our situation a bit more "wild" (I have two cars lol). She "loves" cars though, and enjoys the time she has in the performance cars we have owned. This certainly adds to the ownership thing for me.

I'm a petrol head. Always have been, and hopefully always will be.

Ultimately for me, it's about circumstance.

We both work hard and have a decent net income. For context purposes, our biggest single monthly outlay is our mortgage, which is less than 1/7th of our net income. That's not because we earn millions, but by comparison, I suspect our mortgage is fairly low compared to the average.

I certainly don't judge anyone by their circumstance, and I know what I may have done is not for everyone, but that's the position I'm in. To be honest I was getting sick of working like a nutter, just to keep building up our funds month after month. Money is there (in some way) to get some form of enjoyment from imo (although I appreciate that is not everyone's point of view). Now I have another purpose to work. I can't wait until the weekend to pull the car out again.

Carnut,
In some way the figures being reported from dynos, imo, has been down to the type of dynos that have been used.... perhaps over inflating the figures. I'm hoping to get mine on a dyno type that is more relevant here with us Scoob owners. The results will give a truer indication imo.

In respect of the CS400, you are right. The figures I quoted are what has been achieved in the real world. The 3.7s is the manufacturers claimed figures. I have not seen anywhere, where anyone has been able to get close to the claimed figures. I'll let you draw your own conclusion on that one.

That video you're quoting was an organised event that included Subaru/IM, yet no performance information was ever published. Call me a cynic, but there has to be reason why that never happened. IMO it can only be because they could not get anywhere near their claimed figures.

In many ways a claimed figure means diddly squat, if you need the driving skills of the stig and certain conditions to achieve it. This is where the clever electronics and usable power of cars like the A45 come in to their own. Go after go, you can repeatedly lay down good performance times........ but I suspect that's progress to some people.

Shaun

That is one of the biggest differences between the A45 and my Scoob. You tend to lose the sense of speed with the A45, to the point it can become quite disconcerting. I was giving it some over the weekend and whilst I knew I was travelling (and I was engaged), when I looked down at the speedo I though "Oh ****". If anything you have to be more aware in the A45..... either that or you'll end up losing your license at the very least.

The "on road" pace of these newer breed of hot hatches is quite extraordinary.

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

Ah yes the good old days when I had a low mortgage very decent combined income and no kids

5 motorbikes, a boat and drove top of the range company cars, travelled the world totally care free whilst sampling a little of the high life, where did it all go wrong.

I think I'm around 15yrs older than you so be warned and enjoy it while you can.


Yes I suppose time does move on and it's a very valid comparison between the old Ford scene and the Subaru new kid on the block. 4WD and ABS was probably seen as the work of the Devil.

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

That's the bit that scares me a little as it really does come across in the clips I've been watching on youtube, they just seem to eat up the road with very little effort.

I suppose it's relative though and depends what your used to, I had a couple of mates in my Wagon recently going down the coast road, it had been raining and I was taking it easy but made a couple of overtakes, as you do dropped a cog and gave it a little, the lads were visibly shaken but one of them drives a 1.4 Seat Cordoba and the other a 1.2 206 so it was something of a revelation for them, go figure.

Carnut

I don't want to make 0-60 times a sticking point but if the vid of the CS400 vs 22b is to believed to be a fair representation of the CS400 that would make it a 5sec 0-60 car. The 300bhp hatch can do about 5secs 0-60 so a extra 100bhp(ish) should give it about 4sec 0-60 if not the 3.7secs. (A45 AMG 4.6ish)
One of the things that has been touched on is the tech of new cars, so although not a car related to this thread I think it shows what challenges a manual CS400 is up against.

VW Golf R - DSG versus manual by autocar.co.uk:
I will add that his technique of holding the handbrake IMO is crap, you need to be agressive with 4wd, not a smooth and progressive launch. I would be able to get 5.7 0-60 in that manual golf.

Matteeboy

Surprised how slow that R is; owners are banging on about sub 5s 0-60 times.