Matteeboy

Blimey - it's all gone a bit Hollywood movie.
Fingers crossed for a quick end.

Devildog

I hear what you are saying Chris, however no one is asking all Muslims to condemn these acts, just those in positions of influence and authority, simply because said acts are carried out "in the name of Islam"

As those in similar positions on both sides on the Irish position should have done the same. Two wrongs don't make a right.

On top of that, there's a real opportunity here to influence the anti Muslim stance that exists in the media and elsewhere, and yet it isn't taken.

JTaylor

They are condemning the acts though.

Devildog

Really?

Top google search result for "condemnation of paris shootings"

http://www.rferl.org/content/muslim-.../26783014.html

JTaylor

Your point?

dpb

I imagine it's 'low key' on account this kind of thing happens every single day in the middle east

Tidgy

The reaction is interesting but predictable. First off it was never gonna be that big a news, 12 people dead is pretty small fish compared to what happens in the middle east on a frequent occurrence.

Second those papers that support extremism were always gonna blame others for the attacks, those that don't were going to condemn it.

Hardly ground breaking or unexpected

Devildog

My point being that your assertion that the shootings had been condemned was hardly accurate, to the point of sections of the muslim media apportioning blame to everyone and anyone but the shooters.

Its not rocket science James.

Its worse than the Catholic church's cover up of priests ******** little boys in the "shoot yourself in the foot" department.

JTaylor

The top search I get when I google "condemnation of Paris shootings" is:

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News...g-attack-.html

Carnut

I think the majority of Muslims (including the uk) think it should be illegal to create such images but not sure that means that they agree with shooting people. (Maybe they do)

JTaylor

Well what do you expect? There'll be literally millions of practicing Salafist Muslims who'll be pleased that Charlie Hebdo has been attacked. That doesn't account for the remaining billion plus nominal Muslims who'll now be set upon by the feckless and tribal Britain First types, you know, those poor Muslims who just want to do their shopping and raise their kids and mod' Subarus. They're simply not interested in martyrdom and avenging the prophet and the sword verse. Although they might get interested if they're alienated. Nominal Muslims are as much victims of the jihadis as the rest of us.

JTaylor

All practising Sunni Muslims (rather than nominal, cultural Muslims) are opposed to the depiction of Mohammad - there's a Hadith that forbids it. What's debatable is the measures that should be taken to stamp it out, ranging from debate and special pleading to murder.

Maz

iTrader: (34)

Good post, not just because I agree with you but it does portray the larger picture.

scoobyskool

iTrader: (1)

Whatever a hadith is im guessing its not a law in france that applies to the native people

When in rome and all that

Luan Pra bang

So the list of Muslim scholars condemning the attacks, the multi faith prayers said outside a mosque in France, french muslim religious leaders supporting the Republic and Charlie hebdo all passed you by ? If you care to look I don't think I have ever seen such overt condemnation of a terrorist attack by Muslims athe anytime in the past.

Maz

iTrader: (34)

Interesting point and as you saw on QT last night Vince Cable touched on this. Freedom of speech is only freedom within the context of the law. By that token is it true freedom? The law forbids speech, depiction and literature intended to incite hatred, violence and terrorism. Therefore the whole notion of freedom of speech is within set limits and responsibilities.

c_maguire

Then perhaps the 'Nominal Muslims' should join ranks and universally condemn acts like this.
The chairman of the Muslim Council of Great Britain was less than convincing when he was interviewed on the radio. Although nearly all Muslims (here at least) no doubt believe that what has happened in France is a massive over-reaction to the 'offence' committed by Charlie Hebdo, I don't doubt the majority sympathise with the sentiments of the perpetrators.
The last poll here (quoted on Radio 4 or 5) showed that 68% of Muslims surveyed felt that blasphemy against Islam should be a criminal offense.

Petem95

Comment from the Guardian sums things up nicely;

JTaylor

Depends if you're a modernist Muslim or a Salafist (Islamist) Muslim or a nominal cultural Muslim. Modernists would cite something similar to 'render unto Caesar' whereas the Salafist would consider taking direct action to uphold the Hadith, irrespective of the country they were in. The nominal cultural Muslim might raise their eyes at both and continue eating their dinner.

hodgy0_2

it would be interesting to see what the poll results would be for committed Christians around the Blasphemy laws

i doubt as high - but i suspect a few would still like to re-instate it

Maz

iTrader: (34)

I'm sure you'll recall the controversy surrounding Jerry Springer the Opera.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry...ger:_The_Opera

JTaylor

Well, of course. They're Muslims! If they didn't accept sharia interpretation of blasphemy they would be Muslims by birth only. I know lots of people who were baptised (Christened) and who celebrate Christmas but they're not Christians, they couldn't give a monkeys about the Kingdom of God. As I alluded to earlier, I suspect there are literally a billion plus so-called Muslims who don't give two hoots about sharia.

Why are people surprised and incredulous that the central principles of Islam are incompatible with freedom of expression? Forgive me for boasting, but I worked that out in second year religious studies!

JTaylor

I don't know any Christians that would see blasphemy laws passed. It does hurt me and others when the Lord's name is taken in vain, but that's a spiritual issue, not one to be dealt with by secular 'laws'.

Devildog

I don't recall anyone in the production team being firebombed and later shot to death over it tho Maz?

JTaylor

In my old stomping ground:

Devildog

Here's an intereting point. I know many ex pats living in Muslim countries that have no issue whatsover respecting and obeying the laws of those countries.

They may not agree with them, but they respect and abide by them.

Look at the reverse and you'll see a very different picture.

c_maguire

The 68% result amongst Muslims living in an inherently liberal country as regards freedom of speech and expression is somewhat at odds with your suggestion that most don't give a hoot. That 68% would no doubt be massively higher in Pakistan.

Outside of Islam, other religions do seem to be somewhat more accepting of the fact that others hold different beliefs to their own.
Or maybe the others are just thicker skinned or have a sense of humour.

scoobyskool

iTrader: (1)

Doesnt depend on anything to me apart from where i live in england - no hocus pocus words made up by religions concern or interest me

JTaylor

Could you provide me with a link to this poll, please? I would be interested in seeing where it was conducted and by whom. There's also the question of cultural pressure. I'm sure if said poll was conducted in a mosque there would be more positive responses than if it was conducted anonymously over the web. I'd also like to know the educational background of the respondents etc. etc. In other words, just how reliable is the statistic you're citing?

neil-h

Bloody hell they've even got to the Guardian, the last bastion of the leftest tree hugger. Is nowhere safe?!