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Old 13 February 2006, 00:28   #1
Playsatan
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Default Baffled sump??? Baffled me.

I'm coming near the end of an engine rebuild and getting to the stage where I doing things that I hadn't intended on but might as well while the engines on the bench. You know the thing, new oil pump, new hoses, new fuel rails, etc...and a baffled sump as it will defo be seeing some track action.

Anyway, I pulled off the old standard one and ordered a new baffled number and waited for my impressive piece of kit to arrive.

See if you can spot the difference....

Before

Click the image to open in full size.
Click the image to open in full size.
Click the image to open in full size.

After

Click the image to open in full size.
Click the image to open in full size.
Click the image to open in full size.

Is it just me or is it the exact bloody same exept with 2 plates welded on and a seam around the top plate. I've seen the fancy custom ones but was expecting a bit more. Opinions??
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Old 13 February 2006, 07:25   #2
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I would have expected more myself, but i'll bet that is it!

Where did you buy it, Colin?
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Old 13 February 2006, 12:16   #3
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YHPM Dave
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Old 13 February 2006, 13:37   #4
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Bargain! Lol

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Old 13 February 2006, 18:03   #5
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that cant be right.... can it...?

seriously looks like you got had mate...

Will
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Old 13 February 2006, 19:33   #6
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Got it Colin and to say i'm a bit stunned is an understatement!

I need to get me some 2ndhand sumps.
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Old 13 February 2006, 20:02   #7
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Yes thats it, block off the holes and weld the edges to stop the oil from moving out of the bottom of the sump. I had it done to my sump
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Old 13 February 2006, 21:28   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy97
Yes thats it, block off the holes and weld the edges to stop the oil from moving out of the bottom of the sump. I had it done to my sump
The RA had a 6000 rebuild by Autosportif about 1500 miles before I bought it. The "Group N Baffled sump modification" was 150 .
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Old 14 February 2006, 03:01   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy97
Yes thats it, block off the holes and weld the edges to stop the oil from moving out of the bottom of the sump. I had it done to my sump
So at least it'll work then? Fail to see where the "baffling" is though as I was expecting a gated/vained approach.

Feel a bit ripped off to be honest, seriously concidering sending it back and getting mine welded up locally for a quarter of the cash.
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Old 14 February 2006, 07:38   #10
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send it back!no gates needed just more weding required!
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Old 14 February 2006, 09:19   #11
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I dont get oil pressure warning when stomping on the brakes and heavy cornering. I had it done because I hope to hill climb this year and its for peace of mind

Andy
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Old 14 February 2006, 09:21   #12
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Do the "splash" test.

Fill sump with roughly 4lts of water. Then, hold sump in both hands, and shake vigorously.

Interpreting results:

If you are,

BONE DRY: You probably forgot to fill the sump.

MILDLY MOIST: Great, as you'd expect little splash from the oil pick up opening.

SOMEWHAT DAMP Working to some degree, but could do better.

Noticably DAMP Baffling, if any, not really doing a whole lot.

BL00DY WET Check, and make sure you're still holding the sump !!!


Joking aside, filling with water, and shaking vigorously is a good indication of how it works. I would recommend doing this out side !!!


Mark.
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Old 14 February 2006, 09:26   #13
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Is that another bit of expensive test equipment you've invested in Mark - a garden and hose
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Old 14 February 2006, 09:35   #14
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Does the new sump purely have the two plates welded on it?

Can you do the water test with both standard and the modded sump to see if there is a difference?

Quote:
Andy97I dont get oil pressure warning when stomping on the brakes and heavy cornering. I had it done because I hope to hill climb this year and its for peace of mind

Andy
You wouldn't have the luxury of seeing the low oil light come on.. it would just oil surge and the pick up lose oil and you would run a big end for example.. you would not get a warning or any inclining other than you were giving it lots of track before hand etc.. the low oil warning light is useless.. it is an engine dead light.. the pressure setting is so low to activate it.

Simon

PS: I had posted a picture of another baffled sump.. but the supplier asked me to remove it as it looked like they prompted me to post the picture etc.. which wasn't the case but removed anyway.

Last edited by Jolly Green Monster; 14 February 2006 at 11:12.
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Old 14 February 2006, 19:11   #15
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is there a market for baffled sumps?if so i might be able to supply some on an exchange basis,100 +pp aprox.
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Old 14 February 2006, 19:41   #16
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There is a market for better baffled sumps (afterall the standard one is baffled to a degree...) but it is a dark art to make a truely effective sump. The Group N Baffled sumps that TEG sells are very effective and quite expensive, Lateral Performance's baffled and winged sump (see P20SPD's thread in Projects) is a work of art

To make a good one you ideally need to junk the original innards and start afresh...most of the modified standard Subaru baffled sumps I've seen haven't ultimately prevented oil surge...
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Old 14 February 2006, 22:12   #17
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The Splash test is interesting but what it may not show is how good the baffle mod is at getting the oil to the pick up rather than just keeping it there. If you weld the holes up as well as the sides then you could possibly slow the oil to the pick up and be in danger or surge more perhaps???

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Old 15 February 2006, 21:34   #18
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I put big end failier on my last engine down to sump design / capacity , when the engine in doing 7000 rpm add a resonable G force eg in my case a roundabout , the oil simply does not fall into the bottom of the engine quick enough, the oil pump cavitates, your bearings are then running on bubbles instead of oil, I looked at lots of sumps including a similar version of the above , the Prodrive big wing , gated (with little rubber gates :-) work of art was around 3000,00 + vat the above from 120 ish , but in my opinion it is the increased capacity that is important, I finally ended up waiting 6 weeks for an ARC alloy big wing from japan , Holds about 6.5 l and is shaped internally to stop surge, a bit steep @ 550.00 ish , but the car has been through a lot worse than a roundabout now with no problems, I also altered the pickup to sump clearance from 15 mm standard (both standard sump & ARC ) to 6mm ( as used on wrc engines)
Have a good one
Tim
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Old 15 February 2006, 21:53   #19
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Tim, I too have an ARC sump...I tried the splash test and got very wet! The bolt in baffling is now in the bin...

Actually in reality it's waiting for me to modify it I intend to make a bolt in baffle similar to the centre of the Lateral Sump...or buy a Lateral sump if I get bored trying to make it work and still fit around the HKS headers, I was lucky and got an ARC for 360 quid new, here in the UK
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Old 16 February 2006, 11:01   #20
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Not that sure that baffling would make much difference anyway , I did read somewhere about the flow rate of the oil pump @ 7000 rpm , it was something very large , I just put it down to the fact , with approx 5l of oil pumping that fast with only gravity to get it back down to the pickup , it just isnt getting there sometimes, one tiny suck of air into the pump and number 3 bearing goes, apparently very much more prone to happen if your oil level isnt spot on the top mark, (as mine wasn`t when it went:-)
I have the good fortune to live 2 miles away from a motorsport company that deals mainly with WRC/Gp A Scoob/Ford and be very good friends with the owner (my Bro works there aswell so that helps :-) hench the pick-up modification, Which I would recomend any way, If anyone wants breif instructions on how to do it please say,
Have a good one
Tim
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Old 16 February 2006, 11:14   #21
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what difference will this make? is it worth having it done on my car? i am planning to do 1 track day this year and the nurburgring...

Any advice would be great.

Cheers
G.
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Old 16 February 2006, 12:16   #22
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Tim, instructions please!

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Old 16 February 2006, 13:05   #23
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And me!

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Old 16 February 2006, 17:46   #24
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I suspect that if the oil level gets anywhere near 15mm, let alone 6mm of the bottom of the sump, you have a major problem !

Mark.
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Old 16 February 2006, 23:20   #25
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How I modified my oil pick-up ; my engine was on a stand so nice and easy to work on, fit oil pickup as standard, raid you kids room for some plastcene (sp?) or blue tack, cover pick-up with cling film / plastic to stop plas/blu getting into it , make plas in to 15mm ish snake, then place round rim of pickup, fit sump, remove sump , measure plas to find original gap, I then cut pick-up pipe close to engine end, tacked a bit of tube in to lengthen, made a 10 mm aloy spacer for pick-up mount, refit and measure, make sure it is paralel with base of sump ( hence the tacks, took about 4 attempts :-) I then ground tacks back and brazed both ends of joint, grind baffle plates in sump to clear pipe , clean everything , easy peasy, only takes about 20 mins ,,,,,,,, well closer to 6 hours lol
have a good one
Tim
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Old 02 February 2008, 18:38   #26
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has this solved oil surge issue though ?
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Old 28 August 2009, 06:08   #27
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**Edited due to commercial content**

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Old 28 August 2009, 09:19   #28
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^^^

KB interesting read that..

Can you clarify what I'd need to change the oe sump on my 2.0 05 wrx to the later 06> version, sump/dipstick/drain tray..?

Cheers,
J
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Old 28 August 2009, 13:33   #29
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See my project thread. I changed to the later sump, dip stick etc.
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Old 28 August 2009, 15:23   #30
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**Edited due to commercial content**

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Old 28 August 2009, 15:23
 
 
 
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