MrRtm

So, I've had my 02 bug wrx for 3 months now and ever since I've had it I've hated the brakes so my plan has been to run them into the ground and then upgrade and run them into the ground I have, I'm pretty sure my front right caliper has seized as it's starting to make a seriously annoying noise and there's practically nothing left of the pad which works out quite well with upgrade time a few weeks away :-D

I spoke to the guys at scoobyspares who will be doing the work (they built an old friends 470bhp UK turbo and it ran flawlessly the whole time he had it so I trust their work) and they advised as I'm currently running a bit less than 300bhp right now and only planning to take it to as close to 400bhp as I can with bolt on's in the immediate future (my future wife's Christmas present to me, although just as much for herself as she loves driving it as much as I do lol) and won't be going above that figure for quite a few years when I start looking at a built engine that sti brembos on the front with better discs and pads all round would be more than good enough and a significant improvement over the appalling standard setup I have right now. Replacing the rear calipers was not advised due to the negligible improvement over getting new discs and pads along with the front calipers versus the cost of having to fit the sti rear hubs to accommodate rear brembos and who am I to argue.

Long winded that I know but on that basis I'm looking at the following and would like some advice as to whether I should change anything or if there's alternatives that are as good as if not better for the price or cheaper. I can afford all of the below in a few weeks as planned, but if I can save a couple of hundred quid to put into other areas of the car or life in general I will.

Discs - God speed J hook discs all round (I understand upon purchase I'll have to select sti when buying the front discs as with pads) - £130 F £105 R

Pads - Ferodo ds2500 - £195 F £155 R

Calipers - Brembo front calipers - £450 (seems to be the average price on here which is where I would be buying them from if available)

Tyres - Vredestein Sessanta Ultrac 225/40/R18 92w - £90 per corner

Other Bits - Rear Defuser - £130 Front Splitter - £120


Total - £1550

​​​​​The godspeed discs I'm pretty much set on unless someone advises otherwise, all other parts are fully open to suggestion but the main areas I'm looking for advice on is the pads, tyres and defuser/splitter.
- The pads because of the price, I've heard colourstuff/pfz are just as good at up to half the cost but it depends if they are as good and last as long
- The tyres as I can no longer seem to find them in stock on anywhere other than ebay for £110 per corner :O so alternatives that are just as good or better and don't make me feel like I've just been taken advantage of would be welcomed.
- The rear defuser as from what I've read it will improve certain characteristics of the car for the better if however it doesn't and money can be better spent elsewhere it will be. However if I can still afford it even if it offers no benefits other than looks I will get it as I do like the look it gives and it'll draw attention away from the way the exhaust bends and hangs down under the car (I'll take a pic for clarification if anyone wants to see what I mean)
- The front splitter again apparently improves lift and therefore handling at speed but I looked into one purely for looks so even if it does offer improvements I'm still not decided if I'm even going to bother buying one it's just a potential possibility.


Before anyone asks no I can't stretch to x amount, 1550 is already over my ideal budget but if something like the rear defuser is pointless and I can use that money elsewhere I will as I've obviously got to pay for fitting and there's other areas of the car that are being worked on around the same time (bit of bodywork, alloy refurb, replacing whatever it is that squeals like a **** at the front right side at full lock, uprated alarm, better audio system to replace the abysmal factory fitted trash) and a full service is almost due so will likely get that done as well.

Thanks in advance people and I appreciate all your help and advice :-)

drakesnow

Good post and good choice in having Scott and the guys at Scoobyspares take care of things - they are cool guys. Tell them Chris says hi . I would go with the PFC pads as they are the better pad in my experience, and although I am not up to speed on tyre costs in your size, would suggest the Goodyear Eagle F1 3's.

MrRtm

Thanks pal, the pfz's are £118 for the front on godspeed which is good but they don't have the pfz's for the standard rear wrx calipers, after a little research it seems pf do make one labeled the 0461/d461 or some derivative of that but i can only find them in stock in the us. @Godspeed Brakes could you source these? I'd rather buy it all from one place and save a bit on delivery costs. If not can you or anyone suggest a rear pad set that would go well with pfz fronts?

Good shout on the Goodyears, found them for £80-85 a corner in my size (225/40r18) with good reviews, may well be my next tyre

TECHNOPUG

iTrader: (1)

If you are planning more than 350bhp, I'd bank the £1550 and put it towards buying an STi in the first place.

Alternatively, invest in some tools, stands and a trolley jack and fit the parts yourself. Imprezas require regular preventative maintenance in order to keep them running right. They are however very easy to work on. You'll save yourself a fortune on garage bills in the long run.

Brake and tyre choices look find. You may want to consider getting the stock calipers rebuilt for half the cost of the Brembos, as they can be made to work adequately when in good condition. I'd also look to fit 17" wheels - cheaper tyres and the ride will be improved.

Splitter and diffuser would be way, way done my list of mods.

MrRtm

I likely will in the future but the cost of getting one now based on insurance alone wasn't viable as the insurance was more than triple that of the wrx, not to mention the car itself would of cost me at least 4k more hence the wrx for a few years until I've built up no claims and time driving :-)

I'd be more than comfortable fitting new discs and pads but the calipers I'd rather not with car being used daily to get the kids to and from school and from experience, I serviced and replaced the lines and connections on the hydraulic disc brakes on my mountain bike and they've never been the same since lol, so much so that I haven't rode it since as I haven't bothered stripping it back down so I'll leave that part to someone capable tbh :-)

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FarfocelI

used front ap 355mm from mattyb 1.1k (will keep great resale value)
do not put ferodo ds2500 anywhere, no cold bite, even ebc blue are better and cheaper
pads and disc for rear -use standard cheap option -around 100 max, 2pots keep car in balance only
tyres assym 3 best choice 80x4 320 and thats all

scoobypaul_temp

iTrader: (2)

Welcome back Fawor

AS Performance

iTrader: (4)

the rear Subaru 2pot PFC 0461 is NOT and never has been available in the Z-rated compound but is available in a couple of Race flavours that we carry in our (large) stock as std (being an official factory distributor)
we also offer it in various other manufacturers as required

can generally help with pricing no issue also

Godspeed Brakes

iTrader: (259)

To throw another option in for the fronts , although roughly £200 more than your budget would be our Brembo 330mm kit , we offer this kit for £999 , but comes with brand new Brembo one piece 4 pot calipers , and uses the same pad as the STi , save you the trouble of buying used calipers , and then have issue's which you would have to fix , seals , threads damaged ect.
So could quite easily end up costing more than buying new.

We can supply you Z rated pads for the rear 2 pots

Cheers Ian

MrRtm

Just for reference: https://pfc.parts/product/0461/
I'll check out your site now though to check offers and prices

Ahhh don't do that to me, i'd almost managed to talk myself out of that option, doesn't help that the Mrs is next to me saying "don't expect me to talk you out of it" lol. Is that with pfz's for the front also? And hm for the rear pfz's Pm me if you don't want to say here

Godspeed Brakes

iTrader: (259)

Hi
Yes front kit will be with PF Z rated pads , the rear pads , we do like a challenge here , and like a lot of stuff we do , we do like to think outside the box , we use an STi pad and machine it to the same shape as the WRX pad , simple enough
Costs a little more than STi pads for the extra time to do them , but rear WRX 2 pot PF Z rated pads are £105 a set

Cheers Ian

Linksfahrer

I know how you feel WRX std brakes are a farce, have the T shirt.


Also saved some pennies for my next >300 bhp tune / use BC Coil overs suspension parts Nangkang Semi slick tyres that retain the 17 inch wheels and other things in life like the girlfriend.


What worked sufficiently well for me was to rework the Std WRX calliper's
but I added Godspeeds conversion 335mm ( still fits 17 inch wheel ) two piece floating disc conversion = no more warp. Pads I actually started on EBC blue but found them ineffective. Contrary to another comment above Ferrodo 2500 do bit very well for me and perfectly adequate from cold.
I'm on my 2nd set of these pads now ( First did 25k km ) still happy with them, used them also for the Ring. I'd stay off full carbons, others I know gain a couple of seconds but loose hours cleaning wheels every day.


For the rears I use Std discs from TRW and find Carbon Lorrain pads RC5 are also sintered work very well, do cause some one time squeak at rear but are low dust and balance the car nice if I trail brake in corners. The steel quality of the discs is important TRW WRX ones are very good.


I also use a DOT 4 Race brake fluid. If you change to it from DOT5 do
a full flush first. If you don't track use fresh Standard DOT 4 or 5.
Its important to change it regularly ,essential if you did experience fade.


( Ian at Godspeed can do the calliper rework for you and can supply the twin hat disks with most pad types )


Obviously you can throw more parts at this for better brakes , but I can get round the ring "consistently" under 9 min with this setup. On the WRX discs less than half a lap your down to a glowing red embarrassment crawl to pit.


Important without changing anything in my setup for the way home on autobahn , I turn off from a 120+ mph run, pull sharp up at the lights and no warp the discs. That's my day on a budget and still a happy GF. Each to his own.

Fishbowlhead

iTrader: (1)

I've been running Ferodo pads on my fronts since Jan an no problem at all from cold.

Linksfahrer

I hope you were meaning to say "from" Cold

siluro

I have fitted the Godspeed Brembo kit with 2 piece disks with PF pads and I can tell you they are a big improvement on OEM setup. Standard brakes are just plan unsafe for a WRX.

I wrote a review here

https://uk.subaruownersclub.com/forums/topic/23338-godspeeds-brembo-big-brake-kit/

Hope that helps

Fishbowlhead

iTrader: (1)

Edited. Cheers.

Linksfahrer

Siluro A well written review.

Especially I have to agree with the comment on the amount of the pad covered by the std WRX callipers. These are DB9 pattern on the 335mm conversion andneeded to be filed out slightly in the mount holes to get them centred on the Discs. However the wheel clearance of the Std calliper on the Godspeed mount adapter is "just" sufficient so that my wheel magnets did not need to be moved on the MY05 WRX 17 wheels.
I have had no issues on uneven wear or pads sticking in the calliper.

That said the Brembo conversion callipers do look by far the better engineered fitting. And for optics alone are worth a bit of the 400 price difference. In fact I'd go as far to say anyone buying a WRX using 17 inch wheels should get this mod done first, otherwise as you add the normal go faster mods your brake fade is a road hazard and a potential killer. This is exasperated on poor quality after market disc /pad materials.
I personally experienced that on the Autobahn a week after buying new one's to stop for a queue ( a single 120-0) warping the"new" discs so badly that all subsequent braking became unbearable due to vibration.

My own concern here in Germany is that I would have to have these new Brembo callipers individually tested and certified recorded for the TÜV, as the performance of the ABS will be adjusted ( Probably better though and a no brainer really as similar are on the Sti ) however for me its a nonstarter on cost, I actually swap out my two piece disks every 2 years and then go to the TÜV on standard parts, which I should legally do if I drive to a track.

Aword to pad choice, I notice you use PF material , I have not tried these yet but as Ian swears by them, then they are probably fair value.

I tried others from various manufactures and found that I still needed more bite on the rear to suit my driving style, getting the back end round abit which helps the WRX corner considerable better without steer scrubbing over the front wheels, So I tested some to see what effect it made, I ended up with Carbon Lorrain RC5 if you prefer you can do it with a brake bias lever /adjuster fine , but as I drive it daily I don't want my kids playing with the *****. The sole UK distributor is Paul Chance 01527 332194 you might want to ask about the Sintered RC6/E or RC5 the latest + version of this possibly eliminates the slight first tipsqueal, which I actually like as it wakes dopey "oblivious to all around" pedestrians that carry speak-into telephones.

MrRtm

So, I finally bought Godspeed's BBK and rear g hook discs last week, months later than I planned due to a bad few months but never mind, fitted them last Monday.
Took me about 4 hours to fit, half of that time was spent trying to get seized discs off, had to leave them to soak for quite a while before they'd budge as well as putting the handbrake retainer springs with those stupid little plates back on one side as they flew out when removing a rear disc.
After fitting and bleeding I took her for a drive and the improvement is instantly noticeable, I had a rattle from my front right and discovered the upper bolt into the bracket had worked its way loose, no idea why but I stuck some loctite on it and left it overnight and it's been fine since.

I've done about 250 miles on them so far and done the bedding in procedure as per pf's instructions and braking is world's better over the originals, I can say I actually have confidence in my braking ability now as before it felt plain dangerous. The bite is miles better and stomping on the pedal has much more of an effect than before, gently pressing the brake is nice and progressive, I'd like a little more but I didn't expect miracles and I'm sure braided lines and better fluid would help there but all in all I'm more than happy with the performance.

One thing to note is, ABS is HORRIBLE since I changed to this setup, braking at lower speeds say 15 and under seems to put ABS into overdrive and it really is horrible to the point of I initially thought something was wrong, it causes what can only be described as a scraping sound along with considerable feedback through the brake pedal. It's definitely the ABS as since fitting these if I'm a bit heavy on the brakes it's guaranteed the ABS light will come on and when it does, no scraping, no feedback and amazing brakes I actually prefer it when it's off. I don't know if it can be adjusted or if there's something I can do to improve it but I'll look into that shortly.
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I am glad Godspeed swayed me towards this option, I highly recommend this setup over the standard fronts and I don't regret my purchase one bit, I'll definitely be going back to godspeed for any future upgrades etc. Thanks again Ian, much appreciated

siluro

Hi MrRtm

I do not have the ABS issue you describe. It only kicks in at slow speed if I go over a pothole (which is every 10 feet in Northampton) or wet road. Only other time ABS has kicked in is when you would expect it to.
Faulty sensor????

MrRtm

Possibly, I'm gonna get the wheels off and try and clean up the sensors when it dries up a bit and maybe reset the abs see if that helps, if it doesn't it'll be a garage job or an abs delete, one of the two
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On another note I can't post in the for sale section, so if anyone wants my old 4pots feel free to pm me, I imagine I will have them a while as I doubt many people want them but someone might. One of the pistons sticks, I thought it was completely seized, it isn't, it's moveable

siluro

My old calipers and disks sold on eBay. They can be an upgrade for a classic scooby. Someone will buy them.

TECHNOPUG

iTrader: (1)

I put AP 4-pots onto my 02 WRX and didn't encounter the same ABS problems as you. Don't get me wrong, the ABS is very basic but it sounds like you have more fundamental issues.

Threadlock should be applied to all caliper to hub bolts

Regarding the rear discs; did you wind in the drum shoes via the slot on the inside of the hub? If not then you are going to have to brake something (shoe retaining springs) to remove them. The shoes should be wound back out the same way to adjust the handbrake correctly.

siluro

MrRtm,

could you have got air in the ABS system. Did the master cylinder expansion tank run dry?

Linksfahrer

I'm sure you are still enjoying the Ah ha , effect following the Big brake conversion , however...

Regarding the bolts and thread lock you should use a thread lock that is right for the size of bolt you are using, but do feel free use anything to hold them till you get what you need.

Typically if its a M8 or bigger thread you can use Loctite 272 which is a temperature resistant version to 200°C. Remember to clean the bolt and bore with a fast evaporate spray brake cleaner before you apply and re-torque.

Personally I have found the bolts to work loose, if used hard things get very hot, so after a track day in particular I check them when I swap my road tires back on before the drive home. But then again I'm not using the 272 as I have to swap my big brake conversion on off every two years for the TÜV for speed I only use a medium strength Loctite blue 242 .

Tip , Do get your braided lines and Race dot 4 in as soon as you can , if you have any air locks, corrosion deposits or old brake fluid in your lines it will screw up how the ABS works , You cannot see copper corrosion from brake lines but trust that it is there, so before suspecting the sensors or doing ABS delete do this servicing first.

When flushing Dot 5 (silicon base) use a DOT 5.1 glycol fluid first as they are compatible with DOT 3 and 4. This is important as if you had Dot 5 in place before and then added Dot 4 it will cause the fluid to coagulate , Chemically long strings of silicon can separated in the Dot 4 mix and screw up the flow of fluid and can potentially block or partial block your fluid valves, if this happens you may end up flushing lines with Aceton. Once you are sure you have Dot 4 or Dot 5.1 inside just buy some cheap Dot 4 to flush the system, take the pads out to allow the pots forward somewhat then press the pots as far in as possible to flush the mixed fluid from them and once you have a litre or so through all the lines then you can add your precious Dot 4 RBF. I use Motul 600 and change it at start of season and drive till Oct. Others I know use Castrol SRF to good effect.
I lose count of the cars , with more talented drivers that I pass on the track who are initially and should continue to be faster than me , if they did a proper service on the brakes.

MrRtm

Yeah I threadlocked all bolts when I did the one that worked itself loose and yes I adjusted the handbrake accordingly and tested it, all is good in that aspect
Possibly but no the master cylinder didn't get below the min mark at any point as I checked it after bleeding each caliper each time

I used normfest schrauben-sicherung hochfest which is the equivalent of loctite 272 according to the shop I bought it from last year, albeit with a slightly lower temperature threshold but no issues so far

I'm currently running dot 5.1 but will be changing to 4 as soon as this weather clears up a bit and I can get it done without getting drenched, as I'll have all the wheels off to do so I'll check the sensors as well, funds permitting I'll swap to braided cables at the same time but at the very least it'll be a clean and flush

The issue defiantly relates to abs, I've been running around the past couple of days with the fuse for abs out and no scraping type sound, no feedback through the brake pedal at sll