Phil Harrison

We've run a couple of threads on this board regarding the low-speed rattle from the NSR STi(UK)Suspension: and it's asserted that this is a JDM STi7 problem also. It's very clear that there were (?still are?) many STiUK owners with the problem. I've had 4 different struts, the last having be 'hand selected' by S-UK under threat. It provided a 90% cure, so I reserved my position (in writing).

However, the rattle is making a comeback, and if this continues will soon be at the point where I have to go back yet again [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img][img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img][img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

It know of at least 2 other owners for whom repeated changes of strut have failed to provide a full answer. Sorry, but may I set the whole sorry train in motion again. If you've had, or have, the problem, will you post as to the outcome - e.g
Couldn't be bothered/cured with a new strut/cured some other way/never been cured despite repeated attention - or whatever.

TIA

Phil

mrdeli

I am happy to join in any action - perhaps if we can get no further we could appoint a solicitor on our behalf to cliam compensation - afterall come sale time, whats the chance of someone being happy on a test drive with the excuse 'they all do that mate'

Chip

Including the original Ive now had 3 struts fitted. After last strut was fitted about 3 weeks ago dealer tol me knock was still there. They phoned SUK who said there was nothing else they could do. dealer told them they wanted car checked by Tech guy from SUK. This was done this week. He said problem was caused by something loose under the seat.

Mrs picked up car and said seems Ok. Ive been away and not driven it yet but will do so next few days and post findings here.

Chip.

gareth60

I know that this maybe obvious, but i put standard WRX suspension on mine about 3 months ago and it hasn't made a single "clonk". I dunno what this means, but it may help.

One thing that has just occured to me, if it is the strut, then when I have the Sti Prodrive springs + standard struts put on in the new year, will the problem come back??

Gareth.

urban

iTrader: (1)

Hello Phil

I'm back too (Never really gone away I suppose).

4 struts changed so far with the last (obviously) being most sucessfull. However I cant honestly say if its getting worse or not, but thats not the point anyway.

Either way I still have a stupid knocking noise that I would prefer not to have, and it does this always when driving over sunken manholes!

Maybe I should use my little daughters Tweenies magic wand and make it all go away.


Shaun

JohnS

iTrader: (1)

My car has been fine for about 6 months now. Spoke to me dealer about it, and they ordered up a strut and top mount for me, and didn't need to go in to get it diagnosed. Took the car in, they swapped it all over in about 90 minutes (including washing the car for me).

It's been fine ever since.

You do get the odd noise from the suspension going over the occasional drain etc, but it's the same from any corner, and just the general shock being transmitted through the car, and I don't believe it's faulty suspension.

Dark

iTrader: (1)

Same situation as JohnS.

Same problem, same dealer, same fix, same result.

Mark

MTR

Phil,
I had my near side strut changed and the car continued to clunk.
I tried various remedies, all of which were unsuccessful. The clinking seems to have got less severe as time has gone on, but I did try one other 'fix'.
I tried to adjust th erear passenger door stricker plate, but couldn't undoe one of the screws, so moved it as much as possible, then wound insulation tape around the exposed metal part of the 'hoop' on the plate, to lessen any knocking, if it was coming from there.
If you click open both back doors to the first position, ie not closed but not fully open , and then try lifting them up and down. On my car the drivers side rear door had to be pulled a fair amount up and down to create a knock, but the passenger side didn't need much deflection to get a 'knock'.
Maybe worth a look.

Cheers MTR

Sideways

I think I've been lucky with mine no problems at all.
What sort of mileage does this occur at or has it been from new ?

Jas

jgd

I had passenger side rear suspension strut replaced by dealer for 3rd time last week after being informed that anew batch of struts had arrived from japan which had cured the problem on acouple of other cars . It has`nt cured mine but i`m gonna wait until first main sevice to let them have another go

Phil Harrison

From new, Sideways, in my case and, I think, most others. Took it in on about day 2 and said "can you check the exhaust brackets" 'cos that's exactly what it sounded like!

John S Thanks for that: I'm in no doubt whatsoever that this isn't road-noise, tyre slap or drain covers (and the widespread nature of the complaint and complainants reinforces that) The final confirmation was driving my Dealer's WRX while my car was in having PPP fitted: it was totally silent where mine would rattle.

Gareth60: YHM. Are you saying you took STi suspension off and replaced it with standard WRX?? What caused you to do that???

Cheers chaps.

Phil

gareth60

Phil YHM,

WRX suspension, he he. Wondered when someone would notice. Basically my wife is 5 months pregnant and as you probably know, they get very sensitive. I needed a quick, temporally solution as the current ride was just to choppy. I investigated several paths, new springs, new shocks, complete kits, but no-one could guarantee that I could get a softer ride.

I then managed to source a new kit from Scoobysport and as I knew that the WRX ride was softer, I chose this. Next year, after the baby is born, I’ll be putting the sti suspension back on, with or without the Prodrive springs.

Pete Croney

Phil

When I first looked at an import that had this problem, there was excessive lateral play in the damper.

As so many people have the problem it is a manufacturing/design problem.

Mike Wood recently said, when talking about springs for the STi, that they were having to design something that resisted lateral loading on the dampers. I'm not sure how or why you would do so, as this isn't what the spring is there for. On a MacPherson strut set up, the damper is the structural link that keeps the hub in the correct vertical plane and any play between the damper tube and the damper casing will be noisy and will lead to very high wear rates of the guides/bearings. It will also lead to the camber changing with the lateral forces applied to it.

Good luck.

Phil Harrison

Pete,

Thanks for that...I wonder if you could open this up a bit more for me (us) please?? Bear in mind I've no expertise in motor mechanicals whatever.... I had to read your post from the standpoint of a chap with a couple of science degrees who can work out what you're saying in principle, but the visualisation isn't there.

Firstly: I presume the STi is a McPherson setup, as that's the example you've used??
Secondly: lateral play in the struts does, indeed, give every impression of being part of the problem. For example, my Dealer was supplied with a spare strut with 'obvious' lateral play in it, fitted it (as I guess he was bound to do)in the full expectation that it wouldn't cure it - and it didn't! My latest was (allegedly) pre-checked for play by S-UK and, indeed, gave a welcome reduction in noise to the point where I thought it'd be over-pernickety to pursue the matter further...
Thirdly: I note what you say about wear, and this has been concerning me, as it seems to be a potential point of future failure. At the moment, it's just B****Y annoying, but my view would change if I thought there was a longer term safety risk. Is the worsening of the (previously reduced) rattle possibly down to wear? Appreciating you'll have to be judicious in what you say, have you any further comment....?[I'm amenable to private E-Mail!]
Fourthly: For everyone who hasn't been cured (even after multiple replacements) there's someone who has been completely cured (see above in the thread) through exactly the same action - replacement strut and topmount. Best inference I can come to is that there are two or more variables e.g sub assembly and "mainframe" (my engineering ignorance lets me down here...), and sometimes it's sufficient to deal with just one of them - the sub assembly.
Fifthly: what do we make of the universality of the problem being NSR?? Best I can come up with is that there's a "mainframe" variable at the time of building the car.
Sixthly: in respect of variable camber. Andy Walsh drove the car at 1stLotus yesterday and said "the tracking's a fraction out". Might a variation in Camber feel similar to him??
Finally: apart from raising the matter again with S-UK, can you suggest a sensible further intervention??

Thanks for your attention!!!

Phil
Edit to add: AIUI Prodrive are developing some STiUK suspension Mods. Might they provide the cure? If so, any idea of when and how much£. Worth trying to claim back off S-UK??

[Edited by Phil Harrison - 12/17/2002 4:24:24 PM]

mutant_matt

Phil,

Just remember to bear in mind that from the factory, the Geometry can be within the set tollerances and still be miles out. This can translate to a very poorly trcking car, which may be what Andrew noticed. I noticed a vast improvement once I had my Geometry properly setup @ Powerstation on my 7 (as I did on my MY00).

Just a thought...

Matt

Phil Harrison

Thanks, Matt! Where's Powerstation?? As in my post "FAO John Felstead" (a surprise he hasn't answered, as he seems to be a very active member - you there John?) I'd like the best/shortest Journey to the most reputable SE Home Counties contractor. I rather imagine - and by and large I trust my Dealer - that every time they change the strut/topmount, they have to check the setup???

10K service comes up soon, so I'll get rechecks done then. Meanwhile, I've now written to S-UK!

Cheers

Phil

mutant_matt

Powerstation are in Cheltenham. Most dealers don't have any Geometry setup equipment and technically, they *should* reset it after taking any of the suspension apart but in realty, I don't think many do.....

Matt.

Fitz

Phil,

Had my strut replaced approx 1 month ago and 100% cured (touch wood). It's interesting tho that they had to go thru a list of procedures to check various things before they should order a new strut including the ones we know about like bars behind and under seat etc....

Not sure if that helps.

Chris

Pete Croney

Phil

Here's a very simplistic drawing that should show what I was trying to say.

Any play in the damper tube guides will let the tube rattle left and right as the loads change.

gareth60

Why is it only the rear left one and not the right ??

Phil Harrison

Thanks, Pete, 'preciate that: explains why the Dealer was able to predict a failed repair before even fitting!! Intuitively, the assembly also looks more likely to knock audibly at low speed/load. Are you (or John Felstead, who's gone strangely quiet)prepared to have a go at some of my other follow-ups?

Are dampers right/left 'handed'?? Looks like not, in which case the universality of the problem being NSR is a puzzler!! In your experience, is the damper likely to be the ONLY problem (in which case I can keep on at S-UK until they provide one that works - but they've had 4 goes already!). If not, then I need to go to an independant specialist, preferably nearer to Kent than Cheltenham - SS do that sort of thing??

TIA

Phil

Phil Harrison

Didn't knock on that Corner, tho'

Chris - you don't happen to know what was on that list do you.....?

Phil
Smiley edited

[Edited by Phil Harrison - 12/19/2002 5:29:11 PM]

Fitz

Phil,

I didn't see it. Dealer just explained he wanted the car for 2 days, (was in for PPP) and oil change at same time, as they had to test on day 1 and if all proved inconclusive had could order the part to get there the next. I asked what they'd be checking and was told it was jack, rear seat upright struts, parcel shelf and rear torsion bar and flex in chassis underneath. (excuse the terms used, but I think they are clear enought altho maybe not 100% correct).

They said there was slight flexing in the floor pan under cornering but not enough to hit the torsion bar.

I believe all the above has been covered on the various threads so nothing new. He did say they had this in writing from IM, so I'd guess if you know your dealer quite well (sounds like a yes by now!!! :-) ) to ask him if you could see such letter/note.

Chris

johnfelstead

sorry for having a life phil.

Phil Harrison

No Probs, John.

SN IS Life innit

Happy Christmas

phil

kevvwil

Hey lads, a few of us have been having the dreaded low-speed clonking over on this side of the pond, and I have figured it out, at least as regards my particular situation (and that of others).

What seems to be happening is that the strut assembly is sticking at the strut top. I noticed that when I pulled my (passenger side rear for me) off the car and removed the top nut, the assembly didn't release as did the other side.

I swapped on the stock strut top (for the STi strut top) and everything released just fine. The hangup seemed to involve the STi strut top. So, I made up a 1/4" shim with washers, that I put over the strut rod, under the strut top. Problem solved.

What's odd is that everyone has only one corner that clonks.

At any rate, it might be worth a shot for some of you.

Kevin

Phil Harrison

Thanks for taking the trouble to post Kevin. We've had topmounts replaced over here, with mixed success, so perhaps the problem you mention ought to have come out in the wash at that stage??

"NSR" is "passenger side" for us also - i.e. Rear left side as you face forward: so your "passenger side" is OSR to us i.e. rear right. So the commonality becomes "the usually-less loaded side at the back" If I've understood you right?? Hmmmm..... Is the US problem confined to low-speed also??

Happy Christmas?

Phil
PS - You a Bears Supporter?? Shame to see a great club in relative decline

kevvwil

Oh, don't mention the Bears, Phil...I have been a fan since I was seven (now 41), and except for two glorious years, it has been misery. Ugh. A human pylon with arms is the team's best quarterback, and don't get me started on Chris "Concussion" Chandler.

Did anyone try the shim? Mine was low-speed clunking, indeed. Once you get above 40 mph, no worries. Your understanding is correct, the less-loaded side. We aren't having as many incidents over here, because we a) don't have the STi yet and b) people are just figuring out how good the Subaru-spec suspension upgrade is (which is based on the STi V7 struts).

Kevin

Deep Singh

I'm sure I mentioned this before but my very bad rear noise went when I had Ledas fitted.Then returned a few months later.Just to confuse the issue....

Phil Harrison

Thanks, Deep!! NOT! I'd been considering trying to mod my way out of trouble and send Subaru-UK the bill. If Ledas have different dampers to the OEM Item (remember, I'm not a techie), then that suggests a design/manufacturing problem in the car itself, rather than (or as well as) its subassembly?????

Aaaaaagh!

Phil