New UK Subaru Sti - Due April/May
01 April 2014, 08:31 AM
#481
11 Years
That is how long Subaru have known they had a bit of a pup with the 2.5 Boxer.
Until 2003, we only had the 2.0 and 2.2, which had been around for 10 years themselves in Turbocharged form.
The only major issues we saw, were in Europe, where people were importing these cars, but running them on lower grade fuel, as the concept of mapping was still developing. Even then, the average failure time was around 40K miles.
I blame Subaru America Inc, for the start of the woes, as they wanted an USDM STI that could handle their woeful fuel options.
The 2.5 was conceived as a quick fix, to increase the capacity (we know the yanks always think bigger is better) at a mass produced level.
I dont know how they managed to bollox up the engine, but it became very clear to anyone in the UK who imported a USDM bottom end, that they could almost have been a cheap chinese copy. The pistons in particular let go on many a home spun (and professionally mapped) converson, that tried to extort the expected larger engines potential.
Imagine what life would have been like, if Subaru America Inc, had just gone with the 2.2 block, and forged the nuts out of it, for the same cost.
Even Mitsubishi fixed the 'Crank Walk' end float problems on the Evolution engine within 3 years.
That is how long Subaru have known they had a bit of a pup with the 2.5 Boxer.
Until 2003, we only had the 2.0 and 2.2, which had been around for 10 years themselves in Turbocharged form.
The only major issues we saw, were in Europe, where people were importing these cars, but running them on lower grade fuel, as the concept of mapping was still developing. Even then, the average failure time was around 40K miles.
I blame Subaru America Inc, for the start of the woes, as they wanted an USDM STI that could handle their woeful fuel options.
The 2.5 was conceived as a quick fix, to increase the capacity (we know the yanks always think bigger is better) at a mass produced level.
I dont know how they managed to bollox up the engine, but it became very clear to anyone in the UK who imported a USDM bottom end, that they could almost have been a cheap chinese copy. The pistons in particular let go on many a home spun (and professionally mapped) converson, that tried to extort the expected larger engines potential.
Imagine what life would have been like, if Subaru America Inc, had just gone with the 2.2 block, and forged the nuts out of it, for the same cost.
Even Mitsubishi fixed the 'Crank Walk' end float problems on the Evolution engine within 3 years.
01 April 2014, 08:38 AM
#482
Question to the 10year plus veterans on here that know their stuff:
Mapping has been mentioned a number of times in some of the more emotional arguments on this thread.
Litchfields Mk1 T25 used the crate USDM block back in 2003, to which these fitted JDM Heads and Garret Turbo, but mapped it conversatively to what most would feel a low figure today.
I dont recall hearing of many T25 MK1 failures in the early days (up to 2006). Is that because Powerstation got the balance right, or were they just rectified quickly and quietly?
One of my next street neighbours owned one from new for about 4 years and never had any problems that I knew of.
Mapping has been mentioned a number of times in some of the more emotional arguments on this thread.
Litchfields Mk1 T25 used the crate USDM block back in 2003, to which these fitted JDM Heads and Garret Turbo, but mapped it conversatively to what most would feel a low figure today.
I dont recall hearing of many T25 MK1 failures in the early days (up to 2006). Is that because Powerstation got the balance right, or were they just rectified quickly and quietly?
One of my next street neighbours owned one from new for about 4 years and never had any problems that I knew of.
01 April 2014, 08:57 AM
#483
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11 Years
That is how long Subaru have known they had a bit of a pup with the 2.5 Boxer.
Until 2003, we only had the 2.0 and 2.2, which had been around for 10 years themselves in Turbocharged form.
The only major issues we saw, were in Europe, where people were importing these cars, but running them on lower grade fuel, as the concept of mapping was still developing. Even then, the average failure time was around 40K miles.
I blame Subaru America Inc, for the start of the woes, as they wanted an USDM STI that could handle their woeful fuel options.
The 2.5 was conceived as a quick fix, to increase the capacity (we know the yanks always think bigger is better) at a mass produced level.
I dont know how they managed to bollox up the engine, but it became very clear to anyone in the UK who imported a USDM bottom end, that they could almost have been a cheap chinese copy. The pistons in particular let go on many a home spun (and professionally mapped) converson, that tried to extort the expected larger engines potential.
Imagine what life would have been like, if Subaru America Inc, had just gone with the 2.2 block, and forged the nuts out of it, for the same cost.
Even Mitsubishi fixed the 'Crank Walk' end float problems on the Evolution engine within 3 years.
That is how long Subaru have known they had a bit of a pup with the 2.5 Boxer.
Until 2003, we only had the 2.0 and 2.2, which had been around for 10 years themselves in Turbocharged form.
The only major issues we saw, were in Europe, where people were importing these cars, but running them on lower grade fuel, as the concept of mapping was still developing. Even then, the average failure time was around 40K miles.
I blame Subaru America Inc, for the start of the woes, as they wanted an USDM STI that could handle their woeful fuel options.
The 2.5 was conceived as a quick fix, to increase the capacity (we know the yanks always think bigger is better) at a mass produced level.
I dont know how they managed to bollox up the engine, but it became very clear to anyone in the UK who imported a USDM bottom end, that they could almost have been a cheap chinese copy. The pistons in particular let go on many a home spun (and professionally mapped) converson, that tried to extort the expected larger engines potential.
Imagine what life would have been like, if Subaru America Inc, had just gone with the 2.2 block, and forged the nuts out of it, for the same cost.
Even Mitsubishi fixed the 'Crank Walk' end float problems on the Evolution engine within 3 years.
01 April 2014, 09:31 AM
#484
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About 36mpg in the real world actually! Please stop thinking other marques can't make engines that can do more than 25mpg and still perform, it's only Subaru that are like that.... hell on a long run I get 26mpg out of my 5.5L supercharged V8!!!
01 April 2014, 09:34 AM
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Question to the 10year plus veterans on here that know their stuff:
Mapping has been mentioned a number of times in some of the more emotional arguments on this thread.
Litchfields Mk1 T25 used the crate USDM block back in 2003, to which these fitted JDM Heads and Garret Turbo, but mapped it conversatively to what most would feel a low figure today.
I dont recall hearing of many T25 MK1 failures in the early days (up to 2006). Is that because Powerstation got the balance right, or were they just rectified quickly and quietly?
One of my next street neighbours owned one from new for about 4 years and never had any problems that I knew of.
Mapping has been mentioned a number of times in some of the more emotional arguments on this thread.
Litchfields Mk1 T25 used the crate USDM block back in 2003, to which these fitted JDM Heads and Garret Turbo, but mapped it conversatively to what most would feel a low figure today.
I dont recall hearing of many T25 MK1 failures in the early days (up to 2006). Is that because Powerstation got the balance right, or were they just rectified quickly and quietly?
One of my next street neighbours owned one from new for about 4 years and never had any problems that I knew of.
01 April 2014, 09:38 AM
#486
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11 Years
That is how long Subaru have known they had a bit of a pup with the 2.5 Boxer.
Until 2003, we only had the 2.0 and 2.2, which had been around for 10 years themselves in Turbocharged form.
The only major issues we saw, were in Europe, where people were importing these cars, but running them on lower grade fuel, as the concept of mapping was still developing. Even then, the average failure time was around 40K miles.
I blame Subaru America Inc, for the start of the woes, as they wanted an USDM STI that could handle their woeful fuel options.
The 2.5 was conceived as a quick fix, to increase the capacity (we know the yanks always think bigger is better) at a mass produced level.
I dont know how they managed to bollox up the engine, but it became very clear to anyone in the UK who imported a USDM bottom end, that they could almost have been a cheap chinese copy. The pistons in particular let go on many a home spun (and professionally mapped) converson, that tried to extort the expected larger engines potential.
Imagine what life would have been like, if Subaru America Inc, had just gone with the 2.2 block, and forged the nuts out of it, for the same cost.
Even Mitsubishi fixed the 'Crank Walk' end float problems on the Evolution engine within 3 years.
That is how long Subaru have known they had a bit of a pup with the 2.5 Boxer.
Until 2003, we only had the 2.0 and 2.2, which had been around for 10 years themselves in Turbocharged form.
The only major issues we saw, were in Europe, where people were importing these cars, but running them on lower grade fuel, as the concept of mapping was still developing. Even then, the average failure time was around 40K miles.
I blame Subaru America Inc, for the start of the woes, as they wanted an USDM STI that could handle their woeful fuel options.
The 2.5 was conceived as a quick fix, to increase the capacity (we know the yanks always think bigger is better) at a mass produced level.
I dont know how they managed to bollox up the engine, but it became very clear to anyone in the UK who imported a USDM bottom end, that they could almost have been a cheap chinese copy. The pistons in particular let go on many a home spun (and professionally mapped) converson, that tried to extort the expected larger engines potential.
Imagine what life would have been like, if Subaru America Inc, had just gone with the 2.2 block, and forged the nuts out of it, for the same cost.
Even Mitsubishi fixed the 'Crank Walk' end float problems on the Evolution engine within 3 years.
01 April 2014, 09:45 AM
#487
Nope, thats the Mk2 T25's produced from 2005, which were in response to the USDM's known shortcomings after two years.
The 2003-2004 MK1's bottom ends were USDM crate engines.
It was good news for anyone who had bolloxed their 2.0 classics engine though. Powerstation had a supply of shiny new 2003 spec mega strong STI bottom ends to shift.
01 April 2014, 09:55 AM
#488
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The BRZ looked like it could have been a move in the right direction but with the new Sti it kinda feels like Subaru have been left behind in that market segment these days.
01 April 2014, 09:56 AM
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Nope, thats the Mk2 T25's produced from 2005, which were in response to the USDM's known shortcomings after two years.
The 2003-2004 MK1's bottom ends were USDM crate engines.
It was good news for anyone who had bolloxed their 2.0 classics engine though. Powerstation had a supply of shiny new 2003 spec mega strong STI bottom ends to shift.
The 2003-2004 MK1's bottom ends were USDM crate engines.
It was good news for anyone who had bolloxed their 2.0 classics engine though. Powerstation had a supply of shiny new 2003 spec mega strong STI bottom ends to shift.
Mind you if they only made a handful and people modded them further it may all have got lost in the ether so as to speak.I do remember being in the US in 2002 and there were lots of Impreza GTs around all of which were 2,5s but not of course turbocharged. Maybe that was a different engine block to the 2.5 that appeared in 2006
01 April 2014, 10:40 AM
#490
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That being said I only really VT the Scooby because id had enough of the TAX, and I couldn't gamble with the engine outside of warranty, I use it for business so needed something else.
Im with Lordy on the new STI, if only they had thought about it then id be also seriously considering one, served me well.
Itll be nice to see who drops a 350+ hatch out in the next 12months that's under 40K. Audis would be a nice option but that's gonna be near 45k im hearing
Black edition A45 will be massive mega bucks
Not aware of any stock 350+ incoming, other than maybe the Golf R evo thing
Last edited by Littleted; 01 April 2014 at 10:42 AM.
01 April 2014, 11:37 AM
#491
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Supercharged V8 hahahahaha - you do make me laugh, really think your a baller dont you?
01 April 2014, 12:02 PM
#492
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If that makes you want to call me all the names under the sun then crack on, but you are just making yourself look like even more of a sad **** with every post frankly!
01 April 2014, 01:49 PM
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I wish i had the ***** to order one. Looks very nice; interior looks sorted and its a tried and tested saloon with big spoiler, however, Subaru/IM have made a right mess of the sales side.
The 2 prospective new owners on here have got cold feet, one cancelling and the other trying to get rid before it arrives.
I don't get the comparison to the A45 AMG? Modern tech engine, low tax 12+k more expensive. Besides which, ts a damned cheek that merc have dared to put an AMG badge on a 2 litre blown car in my opinion!
More comaprible to a poverty specc'd M135.
The 2 prospective new owners on here have got cold feet, one cancelling and the other trying to get rid before it arrives.
I don't get the comparison to the A45 AMG? Modern tech engine, low tax 12+k more expensive. Besides which, ts a damned cheek that merc have dared to put an AMG badge on a 2 litre blown car in my opinion!
More comaprible to a poverty specc'd M135.
01 April 2014, 02:05 PM
#498
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Sad in a way that the prospective buyers have got twitchy...but in the long run given the info we have, it is likely to prove a wise move.
Subaru / I.M you really don't deserve any more than you are now getting. Your business slogan should be "riches to rags"
Subaru / I.M you really don't deserve any more than you are now getting. Your business slogan should be "riches to rags"
01 April 2014, 02:10 PM
#499
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At the end of the day the new AMG engine is a beautiful peice of engineering and each one is still handbuilt so the AMG badge is rightfully on these cars!
01 April 2014, 03:55 PM
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What is your problem? I own a 9 year old AMG and it has a 5.5L V8.... it isn't worth much and there are much better cars available these days, but I like it.... that's all!!!
If that makes you want to call me all the names under the sun then crack on, but you are just making yourself look like even more of a sad **** with every post frankly!
If that makes you want to call me all the names under the sun then crack on, but you are just making yourself look like even more of a sad **** with every post frankly!
you are on a site that is labelled as "the definitive subaru enthusiast source", you are a retired member who looks down upon everyone else left in the fold, just let it go and leave this site, you are a worthless addition to this site
01 April 2014, 04:05 PM
#501
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My problem is you and the things you are saying, if anyone wants the new Subaru then it shouldn't be you who is stuck up his own *** because he has a "AMG" on his drive saying how bad they are etc - they aint even out yet!!!!
you are on a site that is labelled as "the definitive subaru enthusiast source", you are a retired member who looks down upon everyone else left in the fold, just let it go and leave this site, you are a worthless addition to this site
you are on a site that is labelled as "the definitive subaru enthusiast source", you are a retired member who looks down upon everyone else left in the fold, just let it go and leave this site, you are a worthless addition to this site
I don't look down on people because they own a Scoob or because I own an AMG, I still think most Scoobs are great cars and always will.
That said I would (and do) seriously warn anyone off spunking nearly £30K on a car which appears to be going to have the same engine that has given a lot of owners a lot of issues regardless of you trying to say it hasn't.
I think it would do you a lot of good to take your head our of your **** and see the real picture here... oh and while you're about it why not take the chip off your shoulder about me (or anyone else) owning an AMG as you seem to have a problem with it and for no good reason as they are just another car from another marque! We are allowed to buy other marques you know
Finally and as I've said before (although it has obviously not sunk in yet) I owned five Subarus over 17 years and may well own another soon so if I want to stay on a site that I have been a part of since 1999 then I will and you like so many others before will be long gone before I will be. If I had a poiund for all the posters who had said that sort of crap to me in the last 15 years before disappearing never to be seen again I'd be a rich man!
01 April 2014, 05:19 PM
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I have a my11 saloon with the apparently bad engine, I been reading this fred from the beginning when the hulk started it, can anyone answer me at what age was the last engine has blown, because if unless you guys work at subaru how do you know that they have not changed the mapping to make the engines more reliable. I'm sure I read somewhere they done this to the cars.
01 April 2014, 05:25 PM
#503
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Take a look in the sticky in general mate, its all documented there. IM/Subaru remained pretty quiet on it all, so I don't think that their were any genuine documented changes to mapping.
People seem bitter about the whole 2.5 issue as many people were left high and dry.
People seem bitter about the whole 2.5 issue as many people were left high and dry.
01 April 2014, 06:10 PM
#504
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I have a my11 saloon with the apparently bad engine, I been reading this fred from the beginning when the hulk started it, can anyone answer me at what age was the last engine has blown, because if unless you guys work at subaru how do you know that they have not changed the mapping to make the engines more reliable. I'm sure I read somewhere they done this to the cars.
The older 2008 model was more prone to it, as its originally had a bad Map, this was supposedly rectified, but some of the guys on here still had issues.
As for your MY11 when I had mine I was happy that I hadn't heard of any, as I came towards end of 2012 2013 I started to see that somebody on here had the issue, The USA forums are littered with them, but that's down to Bad fuel, but still they blow. Subaru didn't sell that many saloons couple of 100 maybe they sold more hatchs I think.
And some did mod them so there own fault but some did not.
In the engine blown thread you will see that Subaru changed the Map to do something with the fuel and delivery, IE stop it near 6k revs cant remember exactly, that and detonation were the killers.
Mine was fine for 3 years, but knowing what I know and have read I just couldn't gamble with a 3 to 4K rebuild bill after the warranty went.
Also around Leeds we don't really have any dealers, KT Greens but other than that your stuffed, Appleyards in Huddersfield sell Subaru, but I get the feeling its an after thought, as with Most Subaru dealers seem to be going to the trash.
if you buy a new one VT it on finance before 3 years I don't see an issue really, but if you plan to keep it long after warrenty, wait for a new block or buy the imported 2.0L version.... Think Juggers was selling his not so long back.
Ted
and don't forget some were asked by IM group to keep quiet for a free repair or something I don't know who, but somebody does
Last edited by Littleted; 01 April 2014 at 06:13 PM.
01 April 2014, 08:35 PM
#505
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I'm not talking about what you can get out the car, I'm talking about every day real world figures. Anyway, what idiot buys a 40k hatch to see what the best mpg they can get is? The test posted earlier in this thread said it all. Read that.
01 April 2014, 08:42 PM
#506
At the end of the day when you spend 25/30k on a car you whether it was a 2.5 or dieasel you don't expect the engine to be rebuilt at under 4 years 44k miles
People weren't buying 6k 1ltr Suzuki alto engines and revving the nuts if them you were buying a premium quality car which should of lasted many years and gave you Hugh mileages
When you study the sticky many engines were going pop at 13k miles and some In the first year as well
People have Had 4-5 k bills some had 10k bills under warrenty
If anyone posts on here thinking they are going to buy a 2008 + scooby everyone Chips in with "when not if " and have you got 3-5k spare for when it happens
Shame as subaru built a fantastic car in the early classic /bug /blob days
8 years ago conversations about engines going pop just never happened
Hence why there is such interest and big threads in old subarus and renovations now Not
I'm getting a new Subaru next
People weren't buying 6k 1ltr Suzuki alto engines and revving the nuts if them you were buying a premium quality car which should of lasted many years and gave you Hugh mileages
When you study the sticky many engines were going pop at 13k miles and some In the first year as well
People have Had 4-5 k bills some had 10k bills under warrenty
If anyone posts on here thinking they are going to buy a 2008 + scooby everyone Chips in with "when not if " and have you got 3-5k spare for when it happens
Shame as subaru built a fantastic car in the early classic /bug /blob days
8 years ago conversations about engines going pop just never happened
Hence why there is such interest and big threads in old subarus and renovations now Not
I'm getting a new Subaru next
01 April 2014, 09:26 PM
#507
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If you honestly think one of these A45s do 36 in the real world you're having a laugh. My wife has a diesel A class - it does 40 on a good day. Look at owners posting on A45 forums - 24mpg, 26mpg average and they're happy with that. Some have tried to get high 30s by sitting at 70 on the motorway. Thats not the real world.
I'm not talking about what you can get out the car, I'm talking about every day real world figures. Anyway, what idiot buys a 40k hatch to see what the best mpg they can get is? The test posted earlier in this thread said it all. Read that.
I'm not talking about what you can get out the car, I'm talking about every day real world figures. Anyway, what idiot buys a 40k hatch to see what the best mpg they can get is? The test posted earlier in this thread said it all. Read that.
01 April 2014, 09:27 PM
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Hence why there is such interest and big threads in old subarus and renovations now Not
I'm getting a new Subaru next
Think this forum should change its name to classic scooby only. Because all I read is slagging off newbie scoobys. Maybe people should read the very first message on this Fred by hulk and read how happy he was to join this forum and become a scooby owner. But seem like everyone just give him a big kick in the nuts and now he canceled his new car.
I'm getting a new Subaru next
Think this forum should change its name to classic scooby only. Because all I read is slagging off newbie scoobys. Maybe people should read the very first message on this Fred by hulk and read how happy he was to join this forum and become a scooby owner. But seem like everyone just give him a big kick in the nuts and now he canceled his new car.
01 April 2014, 09:48 PM
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Think this forum should change its name to classic scooby only. Because all I read is slagging off newbie scoobys. Maybe people should read the very first message on this Fred by hulk and read how happy he was to join this forum and become a scooby owner. But seem like everyone just give him a big kick in the nuts and now he canceled his new car.
Some people seem to have nothing better to do than perpetually say the same thing. Quite why, once they've had their say, they feel the need to repeat it over and over is beyond me.
01 April 2014, 10:59 PM
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Hence why there is such interest and big threads in old subarus and renovations now Not
I'm getting a new Subaru next
Think this forum should change its name to classic scooby only. Because all I read is slagging off newbie scoobys. Maybe people should read the very first message on this Fred by hulk and read how happy he was to join this forum and become a scooby owner. But seem like everyone just give him a big kick in the nuts and now he canceled his new car.
I'm getting a new Subaru next
Think this forum should change its name to classic scooby only. Because all I read is slagging off newbie scoobys. Maybe people should read the very first message on this Fred by hulk and read how happy he was to join this forum and become a scooby owner. But seem like everyone just give him a big kick in the nuts and now he canceled his new car.