The old ej257 debate
17 January 2012, 01:42 PM
#1
The old ej257 debate
Found this which made for some interesting reading... just thought id share it with a few of you on here
http://www.importtuner.com/tech/impp...h/viewall.html
http://www.importtuner.com/tech/impp...h/viewall.html
17 January 2012, 02:34 PM
#4
Q: .......What sort of bad advice have you heard from customers or read on the forums that made you cringe?
A: ........Another is about larger pressure/volume oil pumps are always better because the factory oiling system on the EJ motors are inadequate, when in fact, a high-pressure oil pump can cause oil cavitation while lowering the ability for any oiling system to work efficiently.
Read more: http://www.importtuner.com/tech/impp...#ixzz1jj44WMdz
A: ........Another is about larger pressure/volume oil pumps are always better because the factory oiling system on the EJ motors are inadequate, when in fact, a high-pressure oil pump can cause oil cavitation while lowering the ability for any oiling system to work efficiently.
Read more: http://www.importtuner.com/tech/impp...#ixzz1jj44WMdz
I wonder what RCM's take is on this??
I agree that alot of people do bin a perfectly good oil pump for no other reason than hearsay and paranoia, but then I don't have the hard cold facts at hand.
17 January 2012, 03:02 PM
#5
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That was a great read.Thanks for that.
Since coming on here I've read so many threads where people are told "get ready to spend on a rebuild" that I've spent the last 6 months worrying and listening for any noises.
I feel a little less paranoid now.
Danny.
Since coming on here I've read so many threads where people are told "get ready to spend on a rebuild" that I've spent the last 6 months worrying and listening for any noises.
I feel a little less paranoid now.
Danny.
17 January 2012, 03:41 PM
#6
But look at this:
And then, the TOP tuners in the world, the longest serving of which started business in 2003, are ALL IN THE USA.
So........how much of the rest of it can we believe?
This month, we get in-depth with three of the top Subaru tuners in the world, as they help dispel myths and speak their minds about the infamous EJ-series engine.
So........how much of the rest of it can we believe?
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17 January 2012, 06:46 PM
#9
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I stopped reading when I got to here as I was laughing so loudly 
So they are basically saying that a standard STI engine can run 600bhp on its standard internals 
damn it gets even better down the bottom on the page...
And yet its well proven over here that above 360-370bhp (fly and not wheel bhp) is that you have issues with the pistons, so what amazing things do the Yanks know that we dont?
I would suggest anyone taking "advice" off any of those tuners, dont, listen to the tried and tested guys over here with a good reputation for building engines, dont go pushing them well beyond what they are capable of, be sensible and you should be ok
Tony
Q: What are some of the drawbacks of the WRX and STi engine's internal design, and the limitations on how much horsepower they can handle?
A: The Subaru EJ-series engines are put together very well from the factory. Though not equipped with forged internals, the factory engine in its stock form can handle double its factory power output. A majority of engine failures are caused by uneducated tuners who don't understand how the vehicle and its engine work, along with not knowing the consequences of using low-quality parts to handle their horsepower expectations
Read more: http://www.importtuner.com/tech/impp...#ixzz1jk5Hy4DV
A: The Subaru EJ-series engines are put together very well from the factory. Though not equipped with forged internals, the factory engine in its stock form can handle double its factory power output. A majority of engine failures are caused by uneducated tuners who don't understand how the vehicle and its engine work, along with not knowing the consequences of using low-quality parts to handle their horsepower expectations
Read more: http://www.importtuner.com/tech/impp...#ixzz1jk5Hy4DV
damn it gets even better down the bottom on the page...
400 whp: There are no internal engine modifications needed at this power level. The car would need a larger turbo, intercooler, fuel injectors, fuel pump, AOS, and retune of the ECU
Read more: http://www.importtuner.com/tech/impp...#ixzz1jk5mLNAm
Read more: http://www.importtuner.com/tech/impp...#ixzz1jk5mLNAm
I would suggest anyone taking "advice" off any of those tuners, dont, listen to the tried and tested guys over here with a good reputation for building engines, dont go pushing them well beyond what they are capable of, be sensible and you should be ok
Tony
17 January 2012, 10:23 PM
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Thanks for that OP, thats why I had mine pro tuned last week and boy does the car feel better and I hope with regular servicing the car will hold 350/380 for a long while to come!
Enough go for me!
Don't get me wrong I think ramming it up to around 380 bhp would be pushing it to the limit!
Enough go for me!
Don't get me wrong I think ramming it up to around 380 bhp would be pushing it to the limit!
Last edited by Tommy2396; 18 January 2012 at 07:21 AM.
17 January 2012, 11:06 PM
#14
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I wouldn't be at all surprised if the article (when corrected for UK vs US bhp figures - USA horses not as big as ours lol) holds water! Expertly tuned 2.5s sitting in the mid 300s seem to do very well in the reliability stakes. They key seems to be getting shot of the original map (their explaination of the map issue was interesting - i never did buy the whole "it's just that the fuel cut was too aggressive" although Im sure that wasn't a good thing!).
I wonder what the UK mappers think of this?
Ns04
Last edited by New_scooby_04; 17 January 2012 at 11:59 PM.
17 January 2012, 11:38 PM
#15
There is also a bit of a dangling carrot here. UK tuners do it too, maybe not so blatent though.
Carrot = Tuner "we'll get 350+bhp out of your scoob just from a few bolt-ons and a remap".
Donkey= Customer "great, do it!" < hands over a fist of ££££ >
Stick= Engine blows up 20,000 to 30,000 miles later (or sooner, or later depending on luck)
Carrot = Tuner "oh hard cheese old boy, but see this as a great opertunity to get forged internals so it can handle even more power!"
Donkey = Customer "great, do it!" < hands over a fist of ££££ >
Stick = Engine now forged, needs more bolt-ons and mapping to get more BHP
Carrot = Tuner "now your engine is forged we can fit this, and that and it'll make 450+bhp"
Donkey = Customer "great, do it!" < hands over a fist of ££££ >
Stick = Gearbox/clutch fails
Carrot = Tuner "oh hard cheese old boy, but see this as a great opertunity to get a stronger transmission/clutch"
Donkey = Customer "great, do it!" < hands over a fist of ££££ >
And it goes on and on until the customer either runs out of money or gets bored of the car breaking and sells it for something else
Carrot = Tuner "we'll get 350+bhp out of your scoob just from a few bolt-ons and a remap".
Donkey= Customer "great, do it!" < hands over a fist of ££££ >
Stick= Engine blows up 20,000 to 30,000 miles later (or sooner, or later depending on luck)
Carrot = Tuner "oh hard cheese old boy, but see this as a great opertunity to get forged internals so it can handle even more power!"
Donkey = Customer "great, do it!" < hands over a fist of ££££ >
Stick = Engine now forged, needs more bolt-ons and mapping to get more BHP
Carrot = Tuner "now your engine is forged we can fit this, and that and it'll make 450+bhp"
Donkey = Customer "great, do it!" < hands over a fist of ££££ >
Stick = Gearbox/clutch fails
Carrot = Tuner "oh hard cheese old boy, but see this as a great opertunity to get a stronger transmission/clutch"
Donkey = Customer "great, do it!" < hands over a fist of ££££ >
And it goes on and on until the customer either runs out of money or gets bored of the car breaking and sells it for something else
17 January 2012, 11:59 PM
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There is also a bit of a dangling carrot here. UK tuners do it too, maybe not so blatent though.
Carrot = Tuner "we'll get 350+bhp out of your scoob just from a few bolt-ons and a remap".
Donkey= Customer "great, do it!" < hands over a fist of ££££ >
Stick= Engine blows up 20,000 to 30,000 miles later (or sooner, or later depending on luck)
Carrot = Tuner "oh hard cheese old boy, but see this as a great opertunity to get forged internals so it can handle even more power!"
Donkey = Customer "great, do it!" < hands over a fist of ££££ >
Stick = Engine now forged, needs more bolt-ons and mapping to get more BHP
Carrot = Tuner "now your engine is forged we can fit this, and that and it'll make 450+bhp"
Donkey = Customer "great, do it!" < hands over a fist of ££££ >
Stick = Gearbox/clutch fails
Carrot = Tuner "oh hard cheese old boy, but see this as a great opertunity to get a stronger transmission/clutch"
Donkey = Customer "great, do it!" < hands over a fist of ££££ >
And it goes on and on until the customer either runs out of money or gets bored of the car breaking and sells it for something else
Carrot = Tuner "we'll get 350+bhp out of your scoob just from a few bolt-ons and a remap".
Donkey= Customer "great, do it!" < hands over a fist of ££££ >
Stick= Engine blows up 20,000 to 30,000 miles later (or sooner, or later depending on luck)
Carrot = Tuner "oh hard cheese old boy, but see this as a great opertunity to get forged internals so it can handle even more power!"
Donkey = Customer "great, do it!" < hands over a fist of ££££ >
Stick = Engine now forged, needs more bolt-ons and mapping to get more BHP
Carrot = Tuner "now your engine is forged we can fit this, and that and it'll make 450+bhp"
Donkey = Customer "great, do it!" < hands over a fist of ££££ >
Stick = Gearbox/clutch fails
Carrot = Tuner "oh hard cheese old boy, but see this as a great opertunity to get a stronger transmission/clutch"
Donkey = Customer "great, do it!" < hands over a fist of ££££ >
And it goes on and on until the customer either runs out of money or gets bored of the car breaking and sells it for something else
Oooooooooo You old cynic you!
18 January 2012, 12:53 AM
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There is also a bit of a dangling carrot here. UK tuners do it too, maybe not so blatent though.
Carrot = Tuner "we'll get 350+bhp out of your scoob just from a few bolt-ons and a remap".
Donkey= Customer "great, do it!" < hands over a fist of ££££ >
Stick= Engine blows up 20,000 to 30,000 miles later (or sooner, or later depending on luck)
Carrot = Tuner "oh hard cheese old boy, but see this as a great opertunity to get forged internals so it can handle even more power!"
Donkey = Customer "great, do it!" < hands over a fist of ££££ >
Stick = Engine now forged, needs more bolt-ons and mapping to get more BHP
Carrot = Tuner "now your engine is forged we can fit this, and that and it'll make 450+bhp"
Donkey = Customer "great, do it!" < hands over a fist of ££££ >
Stick = Gearbox/clutch fails
Carrot = Tuner "oh hard cheese old boy, but see this as a great opertunity to get a stronger transmission/clutch"
Donkey = Customer "great, do it!" < hands over a fist of ££££ >
And it goes on and on until the customer either runs out of money or gets bored of the car breaking and sells it for something else
Carrot = Tuner "we'll get 350+bhp out of your scoob just from a few bolt-ons and a remap".
Donkey= Customer "great, do it!" < hands over a fist of ££££ >
Stick= Engine blows up 20,000 to 30,000 miles later (or sooner, or later depending on luck)
Carrot = Tuner "oh hard cheese old boy, but see this as a great opertunity to get forged internals so it can handle even more power!"
Donkey = Customer "great, do it!" < hands over a fist of ££££ >
Stick = Engine now forged, needs more bolt-ons and mapping to get more BHP
Carrot = Tuner "now your engine is forged we can fit this, and that and it'll make 450+bhp"
Donkey = Customer "great, do it!" < hands over a fist of ££££ >
Stick = Gearbox/clutch fails
Carrot = Tuner "oh hard cheese old boy, but see this as a great opertunity to get a stronger transmission/clutch"
Donkey = Customer "great, do it!" < hands over a fist of ££££ >
And it goes on and on until the customer either runs out of money or gets bored of the car breaking and sells it for something else
Sad but true of some tunners
18 January 2012, 07:15 PM
#22
Copied this from a USA site:
( RON Octane Rating x 0.95 = AKI Octane Rating )
98 RON Octane x 0.95 = 93.1 AKI Octane (US measure)
100 RON Octane x 0.95 = 95 AKI Octane (US measure)
So, as you can see the 93 or 94 octane fuel we are all paying an arm and a leg for is actually quite comparable to the higher octane fuels found in Europe and Japan. The people whom have to worry about low octane rating are our friends out west in places like California that are subjected to substandard 91 octane.
91 AKI Octane (US measure) = 95.5 RON Octane
( RON Octane Rating x 0.95 = AKI Octane Rating )
98 RON Octane x 0.95 = 93.1 AKI Octane (US measure)
100 RON Octane x 0.95 = 95 AKI Octane (US measure)
So, as you can see the 93 or 94 octane fuel we are all paying an arm and a leg for is actually quite comparable to the higher octane fuels found in Europe and Japan. The people whom have to worry about low octane rating are our friends out west in places like California that are subjected to substandard 91 octane.
91 AKI Octane (US measure) = 95.5 RON Octane
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