Road mapping VS Dyno mapping
06 August 2008, 02:20 PM
#1
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: will be back in another scooby in time....
Posts: 2,554
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Road mapping VS Dyno mapping
i was speaking to a tuner last night and he told me that cars cant be mapped fully on the road in order to acheive the best results. he said that cars needs to be mapped on the road and then tuned further on a dyno. is that true???
06 August 2008, 03:43 PM
#6
Be careful of tuners that are just trying to "sell" you a remap. Andy.F maps on road and his map's are perfectly fine as with JGM and other mobile road mappers well know on this forum.
Zen/SC and others map very well using the Dyno and road, however some tuners not associated with this site will sometimes say that one way is correct and the other method is wrong. This is just a sales pitch, Road mapping has been tried and tested as has Dyno/Road mapping. Both methods have been proven at the highest level and will continue to do so. It comes down to personal preference, some people just like seeing he figures at the end of a map so they prefer a map on the Dyno, wheras other's are not phased by Dyno figures.
Personally I wouldn't use a Tuner who can say a car cannot be mapped on the Road fully, as tuners with mapping backgrounds can fully appreciate that the Dyno is a great tool to use for mapping but is not the be-all and end-all and a road mapped car is as competent if not more than a Dyno/Road mapped car
06 August 2008, 03:57 PM
#7
Personally I would say cars can be either fully mapped on the road, or do the initial mapping on a dyno and finish the map off on the road. You can never accurately recreate road conditions like airflow and resistance on a dyno, so the map will always be sub-optimal if mapped on dyno only.
How many people you know, drive their car on a dyno every day?
How many people you know, drive their car on a dyno every day?
Trending Topics
06 August 2008, 04:01 PM
#9
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: will be back in another scooby in time....
Posts: 2,554
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Personally I would say cars can be either fully mapped on the road, or do the initial mapping on a dyno and finish the map off on the road. You can never accurately recreate road conditions like airflow and resistance on a dyno, so the map will always be sub-optimal if mapped on dyno only.
How many people you know, drive their car on a dyno every day?
How many people you know, drive their car on a dyno every day?
06 August 2008, 04:51 PM
#10
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: will be back in another scooby in time....
Posts: 2,554
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
pre ROAD Check and adjustment - DYNO for Peak Power, n then maybe pull a little timing due to the dyno not being able to calculate true air flow rsistance- ROAD CHECK ;-)
this is exactley what the other tuner sent me SORRY FOR THE MISTAKE ON THE THREAD
this is exactley what the other tuner sent me SORRY FOR THE MISTAKE ON THE THREAD
06 August 2008, 05:04 PM
#12
Is that what the tuner in question said?
Because I know that the Subaru Tuners on this site do not use the Dyno mapping side of things just to give peak power fiugres.
06 August 2008, 05:09 PM
#13
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: will be back in another scooby in time....
Posts: 2,554
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
im curious to know as long as every one keeps it CLEAN AND CIVILSED WITH FACTS AND FIGURES im sure we can all gain some usefull info to pass on to some of the slightly less knowlegable members like my self i think thats what scooby net is for.
06 August 2008, 05:36 PM
#16
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: support open source mapping software
Posts: 384
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Final map should be done on the road and all parimeters moniterd , checked and tweaked under road conditions....
(may cause offensive) This sorts out the good mappers out from the poor ones
(may cause offensive) This sorts out the good mappers out from the poor ones
Last edited by SqeekyMclean; 06 August 2008 at 05:50 PM.
06 August 2008, 05:36 PM
#17
Some tech info from Andy.F site:
Engines tuned on bench dynos or rolling roads are generally mapped at fixed rpm intervals. Whilst this allows an approximate setting to be achieved, real life conditions are always occurring not at static rpm but at a rate of acceleration. A fixed speed derived map will be slower on the road than a map optimised to the cars actual acceleration rate (although the rolling road derived map may well produce bigger numbers on the rollers).
This is one reason why we tune our turbo cars on the road under real life temperature and conditions.
06 August 2008, 05:41 PM
#18
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: North East
Posts: 2,281
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Some tech info from Andy.F site:
Engines tuned on bench dynos or rolling roads are generally mapped at fixed rpm intervals. Whilst this allows an approximate setting to be achieved, real life conditions are always occurring not at static rpm but at a rate of acceleration. A fixed speed derived map will be slower on the road than a map optimised to the cars actual acceleration rate (although the rolling road derived map may well produce bigger numbers on the rollers).
This is one reason why we tune our turbo cars on the road under real life temperature and conditions.
Engines tuned on bench dynos or rolling roads are generally mapped at fixed rpm intervals. Whilst this allows an approximate setting to be achieved, real life conditions are always occurring not at static rpm but at a rate of acceleration. A fixed speed derived map will be slower on the road than a map optimised to the cars actual acceleration rate (although the rolling road derived map may well produce bigger numbers on the rollers).
This is one reason why we tune our turbo cars on the road under real life temperature and conditions.
06 August 2008, 09:51 PM
#21
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: North East
Posts: 2,281
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It should speak for itself for what it costs, but unfortunately it doesn't and I don't take your point? Are you saying because they are expensive then they must be more effective?
06 August 2008, 10:06 PM
#22
Former Sponsor
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Wellingborough, Northamptonshire
Posts: 2,859
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The correct method is...
Whichever will get the best from the car in the most straightforward manner.
At Zen, some cars will be mapped only on the dyno, or only on the road, or a combination of the two. But this week alone I've mapped 2 competition cars on the dyno for which the road is not an option.
The experience and skill of the mapper is the primary factor.
Whichever will get the best from the car in the most straightforward manner.
At Zen, some cars will be mapped only on the dyno, or only on the road, or a combination of the two. But this week alone I've mapped 2 competition cars on the dyno for which the road is not an option.
The experience and skill of the mapper is the primary factor.
06 August 2008, 10:16 PM
#23
Scooby Senior
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Slowly rebuilding the kit of bits into a car...
Posts: 14,333
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Surely a dyno is better for a more "extreme" up-grade, whereas a road mapping is fine for a "tweaked" car.... mine was mapped on the road but I hate to think quite how fast the thing was going !
IMHO
DunxC
P.S. the artifical loading on a dyno seems to make cars appear to be running weaker than they actually are on the road ?
IMHO
DunxC
P.S. the artifical loading on a dyno seems to make cars appear to be running weaker than they actually are on the road ?
06 August 2008, 10:41 PM
#25
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: chelmsford essex
Posts: 691
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No impreza is mean't really for a constant 150mph! I don't see the benefit of what your saying. Surely low revs in high gears is the area you want to improve things.
06 August 2008, 11:10 PM
#26
The correct method is...
Whichever will get the best from the car in the most straightforward manner.
At Zen, some cars will be mapped only on the dyno, or only on the road, or a combination of the two. But this week alone I've mapped 2 competition cars on the dyno for which the road is not an option.
The experience and skill of the mapper is the primary factor.
Whichever will get the best from the car in the most straightforward manner.
At Zen, some cars will be mapped only on the dyno, or only on the road, or a combination of the two. But this week alone I've mapped 2 competition cars on the dyno for which the road is not an option.
The experience and skill of the mapper is the primary factor.
My whp shows as 274 and my BHP at the flywheel is 311 which is a transmission loss of only 13% .... is that a correct figure (I know its only an estimation but anyhow seems very low...just wondered if this is your rollers and you keep it low as you know how it compares to other rollers? if you know what I mean)
06 August 2008, 11:18 PM
#27
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: chelmsford essex
Posts: 691
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
While you're here Paul .. .. quick question on my dyno printout you gave me
My whp shows as 274 and my BHP at the flywheel is 311 which is a transmission loss of only 13% .... is that a correct figure (I know its only an estimation but anyhow seems very low...just wondered if this is your rollers and you keep it low as you know how it compares to other rollers? if you know what I mean)
My whp shows as 274 and my BHP at the flywheel is 311 which is a transmission loss of only 13% .... is that a correct figure (I know its only an estimation but anyhow seems very low...just wondered if this is your rollers and you keep it low as you know how it compares to other rollers? if you know what I mean)
06 August 2008, 11:22 PM
#28
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: dundee
Posts: 667
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i will ask the mapper personally when i get the funds together
07 August 2008, 08:07 AM
#29
Scooby Regular
My preferred method is to map on the dyno , test on the road and modify if reqd ...
On occassion we will also need to map purely on the dyno as you cant test some of the cars we map on public roads....
On occassion we will also need to map purely on the dyno as you cant test some of the cars we map on public roads....
07 August 2008, 08:25 AM
#30
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Stroke it baby!
Posts: 33,828
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Still waiting for my mapper to get back to me, he says he cannot map the car on the road! needs to be done on a dyno.
Due to "scalling" (sp) issues.
Due to "scalling" (sp) issues.