sourob

Just got my first scoob today.(Still grin)ning.)My96 with ppp, what do you all reckon about air induction. I really havent got a clue.Advice appreciated. Cheers.

MatthewR

Sourob,

Your main options are probably Blitz or Pipercross, as I don't believe K&N make an induction kit for MY96. You might want to do a search as plenty has been said about both (investigate flow rates, filtration rates etc). Certainly it's best to hear them both in action before deciding which (if any) to go for.


GaryC,

Glad to hear you're happy with the Pipercross setup...I've been considering one myself (currently have K&N panel filter). Do you happen to have (or can you obtain) a dyno plot of this extra 10-15bhp the Pipercross induction kit gives? (and what car/setup this was tested on). Surely if it flows that much better that you'd get twice the increase of other kits, you're trading-off some of the filtration you'd get in others? Did the Gp N preparer look into filtration levels of the Pipercross at all?


Regards,
Matthew

GaryC

Went through same issue 2 months ago. Was going to go for K&N induction kit, but then got introduced to a firm that prepare Gp N imprezas for rallying. They advised me against K&N as 'you pay for the name'. They used to use K&N, but now use Pipercross. More audible / , but substantially more efficient than K&N/Blitz etc. They found K&N gave 5-6bhp increase, PX 10-15bhp. So I followed their advice, and have been extremely happy - and faster!

[This message has been edited by GaryC (edited 23-04-2000).]

Marcos

hiya soula,

Do a search on Blitz induction - there's lots of info out there.

The manager at the lex garage in warwick had a PX fitted but he preferred the sound and look of the blitz - PLUS I KNOW HE HAD PROBLEMS fitting the PX and not the blitz kit on my scoob.

I don't know if there really is any power difference between the two - maybe on the larger sti turbos but possibly not on UK and WRX's?

I noticed the throttle response was far better replacing my normal air filter however I know you've got a RAMAIR which is still good?

Happy driving :-)

cheers

marcus

GaryC

Mine is on a small turbo (MY99) - and I had it fitted, so couldn't comment on ease of fitting!

Don't have dyno of power gains, but next time I am down at TAS I will ask them if they have. They fitted them to Group N imprezas, mostly STis, but have 'N'd UK models and still find 2 to 3 times the benefit.

Gave a friend a ride yesterday, who has an idnetical car to mine (MY00 with PPP) but he has a blitz fitted. He deduced my car was spinning up quicker, increasing mid-range punch, and appeared to pull through higher revs quicker, and 'longer'(?). He is getting a PX fitted!

Re-filtration - I would think the PX will offer less filtration. The blitz and K&N are paper based - the PX is just 'loose' foam - hence higher airflow, but I would think that lessens filtration. I wouldn't have thought a Gp N preparer was overly interested in filtration when there are power gains to be had - but they havn't had any side-effects from switching from K&N to PX. - apart from more 'wins'?

Mr Leigh

I have tried a Ram Air panal, PX Induction and PX Vector Induction which is currently fitted. Each time I have noticed a small improvement in sound. I had no problems fitting any of them (Its very easy) I would say that the normal PX caused me some occasional problems due to the extra air entering the system being more turbulent (I think) Well worth doing.

Justin

GaryC,

The Blitz is a metal filter, not paper. Check out

GaryC

My apologies Justin!

PX can be run with or without oil.

If run without, foam will need cleaning every 15,000 miles.

Stef

Gary.
Wher do you get your info from. 'Substanstially more efficient then K&N'. How's that then?
The K&N is cotton gauze, not paper.
Where did this firm get their figures from?
Funny how when K&N did tests on their bench dyno, all the foam and paper filter gave less of an increase than theirs. These figures are undisputed by their competitors!
Depends on who you believe I guess.
There's an interesting diagram on K&N boxes that explains why it's better.
To give you some idea of how good the K&N is, my car got exactly the same figures on Superchips' dyno with the K&N as it did with no filter at all. How free flowing's that? And the filtering performance is certainly better too.
Still, they'll all offer an increase over paper.

Stef. ( K&N fan! )

[This message has been edited by Stef (edited 27-04-2000).]

GaryC

All info from firm called TAS in Leyland. They prepare Group N Imprezas for rallying (amongst other things). They do their own testing.

With flow rates/performance gain - they found a PX panel filter to be more effective/effecient than the K&N induction kits they used to use. The PX induction kit offers still further gains.

TAS supply both PX and K&N filters/kits. They sell more K&N than PX because of the brand name, but fit PX to the cars they prepare, and eveyone who has gone back to them to change their K&N to a PX has noticed gains, both in road and 'rally' cars.

The PX box has a similar graph, showing why IT is the best in the world (and some!!). I don't beleive manufacturers own tests of their products, including the PX - but do beleive the findings of an independant company, especially when they weren't getting my business at the time. I had ordered and paid for a K&N kit at the time, they advised me to contact the seller (Demon Tweeks) and change order to PX kit instead. I did.

I have no axe to grind against K&N or any other, nor am I a 'PX Fan', just want the best performance for my car, and sharing my findings!

ric

Sorry guys ......

BUT Power gains of about 10-15bhp from changing a filter are illusions (add a
downpipe +15bhp; add a back box +10bhp and there you are with 260bhp...as all
Imprezas are much stronger than 211 or 218bhp!).
Either our swiss cars are not as strong as the UK-ones or the power gains you say
are exaggerated.
My friends MY99 was on the rolling road:
MY99
- downpipe
- aftermarket back box
=> 223PS
- then, the same day, he added a K&N 57i induction kit
=> 226PS
- after that the ECU was remapped to run 1.25bar (18.5psi)
=> 255PS
You can see, there are +3PS and the torque stays the same!
What I want to say: If you like the sound of an induction kit, buy it, but if you buy it
because you are hoping to have 10-15bhp+ don't buy it!
Buy a panel filter element and you will have the same power figures!
greetings
ric

PS Why do unmodified Imprezas at Power Engineering put out 230-250bhp. We
have never seen an unmodified car that had more than the 211 (MY98) / 218
(MY99) PS!
- downpipe and back box +7PS
- K&N filter (element or induction kit) +3PS
thats the truth on the DYNO! sorry K&N.......

PS My car is equipped with a K&N 57i kit! (thanks Stef for the advice! )

Mark Green

One thing to bear in mind is that your air filter is just that - a filter. In my experience (working in R&D for a supplier to the major car companies) the aftermarket performance kits do not have anywhere near the filtration efficiency of the standard paper filters. Buyer beware!

Also with oiled filters the ammount of oil applied (when new and after cleaning) is critical to the performance.

Mark

Stef

Gary.
Fair do's, but I'd be interested to see how they measured the gains.

Ric.
Glad you like the K&N, but I would dispute the minimal gains of an induction kit. Don't forget, on most dynos, the kit never gets achance to operate at it's full potential as it depends on what fans are being used.
My car has been measured at 267bhp on PE's dyno, where standard cars of the same year are getting 230ish. There is no way my exhaust is providing all of this increase by itself, I don't care what anyone says!
The recent run at Superchips was inconclusive, as they didn't see confident at setting up the rollers.
I hope the Scooby day at Powerstation shows some more conclusive comparisons.

Stef.

KevinW

Stef,

Due to the age of my car (1994, 260PS WRX) I couldn't get a K&N induction kit, although many people have told me a `97 onwards kit will fit. Therefore I now have a Pipercross fitted (easily done with the instructions provided).

Today Mark from Tyres Northampton is fitting my Scorpion cat back system (I believe you have one fitted). Your gains seem quite promising as you appear to be putting out more power than my car as standard. Do you think I can expect similar gains in power? And what (most importantly) do you think the result on the road will be (ie. throttle response, driveability etc.)?

The Pipercross is very audible (almost dump valve'ish), not sure how much I like the sound. Hopefully, when mated to the new exhaust the combined audible sound will be more pleasant. I'll let you know how I get on, should be an interesting drive back from Northampton

Anyway, must dash, gotta be on the road in half an hour.

Kev

GavinP

I have a Pipercross induction kit but I'm sure I read somewhere that it adds 4 bhp to a standard car.

I had a standard filter before and the PX is much noisier but does seem to reduce the lag of the turbo (to a small degree).

I would think that the design of the Induction kit (straighter air flow) would be responsible for the increase, rather than "better" filtration - but what do I know

Thanks

Gavin

Stef

Kevin.
I actually have a full Scorpion system (turbo-back), but my power before adding the d/p was still 261bhp at PE. There's no reason why you shouldn't see similar gains.
Throttle response will definitely improve, but the best thing about the Scorpion is the noise!! I believe the new system has a smaller tail-pipe than mine, so I don't know if it will sound the same.
My friend's just bought a PX Vector kit, and I really think it sounds just like a dump valve, I didn't like it at all.
Personal choice I guess.

Gavin.
The filtration is basically to protect the turbo/sensors from damage, so you're right, it's the design that's responsible for the power increase.
More clean air = more power!

Stef.

KevinW

Stef,

Agreed on the filter, does sound like a dump valve. Guess I'll live with it, especially if it flows as much air as sounds like it does. Exhaust note is sweet though. Hope to get it on the rollers soon. Mid range pick appears to be improved (noticeable in 4th). Car goes extremely well. Next track outing, you'll have to drive it and see.

Later,

Kev