Chance to buy a P1...too much?
13 July 2017, 11:18 AM
#1
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Chance to buy a P1...too much?
Hello guys... quick question.. I have been offered a p1 from a old friend. Who is a bit of a car collector. Think it has circa 60k and im sure will be very good condition and original, However he wants 20k for it. Is he being unrealistic. Honest opinions wanted please. As potentially I'm interested but want a good deal and dont want to pay over the odds. I know these have shot up.. but seems very high. The car isn't advertised at mo. But he always said he would give me first refusal, which has.
13 July 2017, 11:41 AM
#2
ive seen them from 18k right up to 30k. would need to be origional and good condition for that sort of money. origionality being the main point at that sort of money as some are advertised with a lot of mods ie 2.1 stroker, different brakes, roll cages etc and serious collectors want a standard car in good condition and is especially important if your looking at the purchase as a future investment. take someone with you who knows the cars !
13 July 2017, 12:38 PM
#6
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If the car is one owner and has the factory upgrades and has a service history i would be buying on the condition of the car and not the going rate for the cars.
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13 July 2017, 01:44 PM
#9
You want to buy as an investment but presumably your friend the collector also views his collection as a form of investment?... So you have to ask yourself why is he looking to sell at this moment in time?
Do a bit of wider reading about asset price bubbles... particular those fuelled by cheap credit and low interest rates (i.e. the one we're in right now)
I think you'll find most indications are that this particular bubble has all but run out of steam and monetary policy is going to get considerably tighter from here on in, meaning some ''investors'' in classic/exotic/performance cars are going to be left foolishly holding some rather expensive babies and could be waiting an awfully long time before they see any ROI.
Do a bit of wider reading about asset price bubbles... particular those fuelled by cheap credit and low interest rates (i.e. the one we're in right now)
I think you'll find most indications are that this particular bubble has all but run out of steam and monetary policy is going to get considerably tighter from here on in, meaning some ''investors'' in classic/exotic/performance cars are going to be left foolishly holding some rather expensive babies and could be waiting an awfully long time before they see any ROI.
13 July 2017, 02:34 PM
#11
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I looked at a couple before I bought my makinen ,both had engine rebuilds which seems the norm for the p1s ,commanding big money now appreciating classics just sold one big money.
13 July 2017, 02:37 PM
#12
There was a 1 owner P1 that sold in BCA auction about 4-5 months ago done 70k ish FSH by subaru all original however slight rust on rear archs could be seen in pics did about £15.5k.. Trader bought it and had it up at £25k then £22k.. Wjether he sold it on at what price i'm unsure of..
13 July 2017, 03:05 PM
#13
Sounds about right for the last 5 years of bubble price rises.
So you reckon it's going to increase by a further 60% in the next 5 years do you?... and the next 5 years after that, and the next 5 years after that and so on.
13 July 2017, 04:56 PM
#14
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I never said i think it will increase by a further 60 percent in 5 years and 5 years after that. I simply stated the price it stands him at. He is looking to sell to partially fund a Ford rs. Any car is worth what someone is willing to pay. I'm just trying to find out if 20k in current climate it's the going rate. Do i think the prices will further increase obviously I do as that's the main driver behind the purchase but by how much is anyone's guess.
13 July 2017, 05:06 PM
#15
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There was a 1 owner P1 that sold in BCA auction about 4-5 months ago done 70k ish FSH by subaru all original however slight rust on rear archs could be seen in pics did about £15.5k.. Trader bought it and had it up at £25k then £22k.. Wjether he sold it on at what price i'm unsure of..
13 July 2017, 07:14 PM
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If this P1 has all the WR Prodrive upgrades ie...
Prodrive Electric front seats.
Prodrive Front calipers with 330mm discs.
P1 Stamped Rear Box.
18" Upgraded Prodrive wheels.
Etc etc, then these items are quite rare now command a premium.
Seats alone have been known to sell for circ 2k. 18" wheels in mint condition with good tyres are circ 1k.
What is the full spec? It's no good us just guessing it's true value if we don't know the full details.
Has it got all of the above?
Has it had an engine rebuild?
Is it modified or standard?
Has it had any bodywork or paint?
I know quite a few members that have had a full underside refresh with all new suspension upgraded droplinks, bushes etc etc and that alone is worth circ 3k plus. Now these cars are 17 years old, most of them will be due some if not a lot of body work. If it's already been done, then that is a massive bonus.
What extras come with the car?
You are only telling us half the story as if you are wanting us to say that this P1 isn't worth the 20k asking price and that you could use these comments as a bargaining tool to show the owner that we all think the car is too expensive.
Give us more details and you will get a more realistic valuation.
I wouldn't be surprised if it is worth 20k having owned 3 P1's myself.
Any stone chips on the front end?
Common on P1's.
Rear arches rust. What condition are they in?
Rear suspension turrets are known to rust. Not a cheap repair.
If it is a well looked after collectors car, then 20k is a good price and I would seriously consider it. I have seen some as described as mint. As we know, everyone's idea of mint is different. If you can get the build number we might know the car and then give you some history on the car.
There aren't many good examples around that don't require work. If you find one that has already been done, then let me know, because I might be interested in buying another.
Good luck.
Prodrive Electric front seats.
Prodrive Front calipers with 330mm discs.
P1 Stamped Rear Box.
18" Upgraded Prodrive wheels.
Etc etc, then these items are quite rare now command a premium.
Seats alone have been known to sell for circ 2k. 18" wheels in mint condition with good tyres are circ 1k.
What is the full spec? It's no good us just guessing it's true value if we don't know the full details.
Has it got all of the above?
Has it had an engine rebuild?
Is it modified or standard?
Has it had any bodywork or paint?
I know quite a few members that have had a full underside refresh with all new suspension upgraded droplinks, bushes etc etc and that alone is worth circ 3k plus. Now these cars are 17 years old, most of them will be due some if not a lot of body work. If it's already been done, then that is a massive bonus.
What extras come with the car?
You are only telling us half the story as if you are wanting us to say that this P1 isn't worth the 20k asking price and that you could use these comments as a bargaining tool to show the owner that we all think the car is too expensive.
Give us more details and you will get a more realistic valuation.
I wouldn't be surprised if it is worth 20k having owned 3 P1's myself.
Any stone chips on the front end?
Common on P1's.
Rear arches rust. What condition are they in?
Rear suspension turrets are known to rust. Not a cheap repair.
If it is a well looked after collectors car, then 20k is a good price and I would seriously consider it. I have seen some as described as mint. As we know, everyone's idea of mint is different. If you can get the build number we might know the car and then give you some history on the car.
There aren't many good examples around that don't require work. If you find one that has already been done, then let me know, because I might be interested in buying another.
Good luck.
Last edited by ADY 555; 13 July 2017 at 07:17 PM.
13 July 2017, 09:51 PM
#17
It's my turn to return the favour and back Mike up.
It's the wrong time to be buying classic cars as an investment, this credit fuelled bubble is about to burst and some people are going to be left waiting a good few years before they see a return on their "investment" which is probably why your mate is trying to off load his P1 while it's riding high.
TBH If it were my money going on a "collectors" car I'd like to be seeing a fair few less miles than 60k especially on a P1 as historically that's about the milage they let go at,
so you may well find yourself saddled with a £4/5k bill as well as "other" parts that will want changing to bring it back to life, every bit of rubber on the car is going to be wanting to be replaced as well as Clutch, fuel pump, bla, bla, bla.
All this and more would need to have been done to get me to part with anything like £20k on a 60k mile P1.
But hey, as I always say... it's not my money.
It's the wrong time to be buying classic cars as an investment, this credit fuelled bubble is about to burst and some people are going to be left waiting a good few years before they see a return on their "investment" which is probably why your mate is trying to off load his P1 while it's riding high.
TBH If it were my money going on a "collectors" car I'd like to be seeing a fair few less miles than 60k especially on a P1 as historically that's about the milage they let go at,
so you may well find yourself saddled with a £4/5k bill as well as "other" parts that will want changing to bring it back to life, every bit of rubber on the car is going to be wanting to be replaced as well as Clutch, fuel pump, bla, bla, bla.All this and more would need to have been done to get me to part with anything like £20k on a 60k mile P1.
But hey, as I always say... it's not my money.
14 July 2017, 06:49 AM
#18
I think we're two lone voices Ditchy!
Most people have a very limited knowledge base and have no concept of WHY prices of just about all forms of 'assets' have shot up in recent years, they think it's just 'normal' and 'supply and demand' etc etc
Some pretty startling figures in the latest BoE report on secured/unsecured debt...
http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/publi.../2017/17q2.pdf
Most people have a very limited knowledge base and have no concept of WHY prices of just about all forms of 'assets' have shot up in recent years, they think it's just 'normal' and 'supply and demand' etc etc
Some pretty startling figures in the latest BoE report on secured/unsecured debt...
http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/publi.../2017/17q2.pdf
14 July 2017, 07:50 AM
#19
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The question is how much are P1's actually selling for? It's all well and good seeing them for between 15 & 30k and presuming that's the value but it's worth nothing if none are selling.
How much are you willing to pay? And if it's what you want, std example etc.
I personally wouldn't pay that, if I was specifically wanting a car for an investment I'd look elsewhere.
How much are you willing to pay? And if it's what you want, std example etc.
I personally wouldn't pay that, if I was specifically wanting a car for an investment I'd look elsewhere.
14 July 2017, 09:15 AM
#20
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All you can base it on is other cars and from previous years.
They will increase that's a fact, how much they increase and over what period is questionable.
The rarity value in my opinion will accelerate the increase more than most cars.
People will always have money, people will always want classic cars, supply and demand
14 July 2017, 09:58 AM
#22
Who can say yes or no for sure?
All you can base it on is other cars and from previous years.
They will increase that's a fact, how much they increase and over what period is questionable.
The rarity value in my opinion will accelerate the increase more than most cars.
People will always have money, people will always want classic cars, supply and demand
All you can base it on is other cars and from previous years.
They will increase that's a fact, how much they increase and over what period is questionable.
The rarity value in my opinion will accelerate the increase more than most cars.
People will always have money, people will always want classic cars, supply and demand
People buy classic cars when they have disposable income or as in this case can afford credit... usually based on house price increases and re-mortgaging... some are even going to get stung in that market too... but that's a topic for a different thread.
You don't have to look back too far to see where all this is going.
Back on topic.
Seems to me like the guy who's selling this P1 is quite savvy... he's had the P1 for a long time... enjoyed it for quite a while... gone through the highs and lows of price rises, stuck a fair few miles on it and is now looking for the next car to replace it before it costs him a small fortune... Focus RS is the perfect candidate to do it all over again... stick a few K miles on it a year, wait 15/20yrs and he'll get most of his money back.
Player.
Last edited by ditchmyster; 14 July 2017 at 10:00 AM.
14 July 2017, 10:02 AM
#23
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The only thing that's going to continue to rise in value due to supply and demand is houses and rent, classic cars are not a necessity... a roof over your head is.
People buy classic cars when they have disposable income or as in this case can afford credit... usually based on house price increases and re-mortgaging... some are even going to get stung in that market too... but that's a topic for a different thread.
You don't have to look back too far to see where all this is going.
Back on topic.
Seems to me like the guy who's selling this P1 is quite savvy... he's had the P1 for a long time... enjoyed it while... gone through the highs and lows of price rises, stuck a fair few miles on it and is now looking for the next car to replace it... Focus RS is the perfect candidate to do it all over again... stick a few K miles on it a year, wait 15/20yrs and he'll get most of his money back.
Player.
People buy classic cars when they have disposable income or as in this case can afford credit... usually based on house price increases and re-mortgaging... some are even going to get stung in that market too... but that's a topic for a different thread.
You don't have to look back too far to see where all this is going.
Back on topic.
Seems to me like the guy who's selling this P1 is quite savvy... he's had the P1 for a long time... enjoyed it while... gone through the highs and lows of price rises, stuck a fair few miles on it and is now looking for the next car to replace it... Focus RS is the perfect candidate to do it all over again... stick a few K miles on it a year, wait 15/20yrs and he'll get most of his money back.
Player.
14 July 2017, 10:13 AM
#26
I have to say i've been reading a lot of how this 'car' bubble will burst. When and how is anyones guess. If you get the P1 at £15k ish or thereabouts and its a good level car I reckon your money is safe. IMO..
Just think of hte people buying 22Bs at £60-£100k...! They dont seem to be concerned about no bubble !
Just think of hte people buying 22Bs at £60-£100k...! They dont seem to be concerned about no bubble !
14 July 2017, 10:35 AM
#27
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I was talking to a fella on Sunday there who had a ridiculously clean WR1, he's had it 9yrs and when he was shopping he had the choice of the WR1 and 22b, both 19k at the time. The 22b needed some tlc but all within his capabilities....he's kicking himself now.
And they're selling at ridiculous prices.
And they're selling at ridiculous prices.
14 July 2017, 11:25 AM
#28
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14 July 2017, 12:31 PM
#29
lol not into watches ! I was assuming you had a collection of modern classic cars hence the request to see pics..
Turbo Civic sounds interesting.. Is it an EP3 Type-R supercharged? or an EK9 jobby.. Always wanted an Elise but I would struggle to get in / out of it.
Turbo Civic sounds interesting.. Is it an EP3 Type-R supercharged? or an EK9 jobby.. Always wanted an Elise but I would struggle to get in / out of it.