mickywrx

iTrader: (29)

I have all that crap turned off.

ossett2k2

iTrader: (9)

Ahh nice one,didn't know you could turn all that crap off
Might head over to options and switch some filters on.

BrownPantsRacing

iTrader: (6)

No point whatsoever. It will not give you any benefit for the power levels you're chasing.

BrownPantsRacing

iTrader: (6)

Don't bother. Because the increased pipe length for the FMIC you will just get more lag and make the car less nice to drive in general. At the power levels you're looking at just stick with STI TMIC.

Tidgy

Stop hacking that lag crap, poor setup generates lag, not front mount. I gained spool when i went front mount.

Although i do agree about prob not worth it. Standard engine is so poor, untill you do the internals not realy worth it. Although you will see an improvement even at the level being talked about.

BrownPantsRacing

iTrader: (6)

Were you at 320bhp though Tidgy?


There has been loads of work done on comparing TMICs to FMICs. While I agree that the TMIC location is limited, they do have benefits like shorter pipe runs which will help reduce lag.


If the OP is only chasing 350bhp what is the point in going FMIC with all the expense that goes with it and limited or negligible gains at his intended power level. It's counter productive. Pointless IMO and others.

Tidgy

It was back to back test years ago and the laws of physics havn't change. 300 became 320 when mapped for it.

Only exception would be a TD04 which is so asthmatic it struggles to blow out a candle anyway haha

BrownPantsRacing

iTrader: (6)

I agree there are benefits, by fitting a FMIC you're just recovering lost horsepower due to heat in the intake temps, as well as a more consistent power.


Intake air will be much cooler, so with all things equal you car should run like it does on cool nights more often. Tough to say what the actual number of the increase will be since it's dependant on the FMIC, install, and how much air flow it's getting.


You may get more BHP but you will notice a slight change in the way it builds boost.


Realistically it's not worth the spend for that power level.

Tidgy

It's more than just heat recovery, or loss in this case. It allows the timing to be played with.

While technically (if you work it out mathematically) there is additional time to build the boost, the reality is its not enough to notice when you drive it. So the idea of it adding noticeable lag is rubbish.

Like all tuning it varies from car to car, even same model, age mileage etc can give two different results.

as far as value, i'd rather not worry about heat issues even at that level.

BrownPantsRacing

iTrader: (6)

I suspect there are other things the op should be spending his money on first though to be honest. 3 port? Brake (Brembo) upgrade when you get to this power level is a must.

I do agree that the benefits of a front mount will eek out a little extra power if mapped correctly as you can possibly add a little extra timing to benefit the slightly improved cooler charge temps.

If you overlay the 2 dyno graphs of front mount and TMIC I'll bet my house the boost map looks nicer on the TMIC and full boost comes in a little earlier due to the pipe run. Will probably be marginal though, but still improved. Same reason people stick with a smaller turbo like the TD04 because spool is improved and lag reduced over larger turbos. The overall effect is a nicer car to drive IMO.

Always a good discussion the FMIC one. I certainly wouldn't say no if money were not an issue and if I were fitting a much bigger turbo than the VF48 then it's certainly a yes from me.

I'm toying with intercooler ideas for my FSTI at the moment. If I go big power I wouldn't be happy with a TMIC, even an uprated one. But nobody makes a goof FMIC kit for them.

Tidgy

the test was done years ago and i can't find it now, think it was in jap performance mag. Very few things havn't actualy been tested, just people havnt been around long enough to remember haha

CharlesTuna

iTrader: (2)

How much power are you after ?

There are some decent uprated TMIC out there, I'm running a Grimmspeed with an SC46 on a 2.1 @ 442hp/390ftlb. Process West offer a few choices too along with Mishimoto. As long as you monitor ACT and get it mapped to compensate for high ACT you're all good let your ecu do the worrying so you don't have to

Getting a good seal between the scoop splitter and face of the TMIC is key to forcing air through the core instead of it flowing over the top and down the sides, a bigger scoop obviously helps with more airflow but not everyone wants a huge scoop. I still have standard STi v5/6 scoop at the moment, I do have a Bug STi scoop that's 1cm taller that I need to paint and fit.

FMIC do have benefits over a TMIC for the right applications, but for a UK road car with standard location turbo and less than 500hp I'd go TMIC all the time.

captainlip

well this is ****, not heard back from andy and no dyno results to show you.

JDM_Stig

iTrader: (3)

That's Andrew Carr, but people still rave about him,
Still waiting for him to return after the **** remap he did on mine. . . .

captainlip

Got my results, peoples thoughts on these? first is boost second is torque....

ossett2k2

iTrader: (9)

Hitting peak boost and torque nice and early,just drops off to **** not long after,definatly something not right imo.

Edit: did Andy investigate why it wasn't holding boost?
Looks like a pipe could be collapsing under full load?
Do you have an aftermarket intake pipe on?

captainlip

Standard wrx TMIC and air box at the moment, he says its not getting enough air and believes is the pipe coming off the TMIC collapsing. going to STI TMIC and induction and remap again.

As you say boost nice as soon as you hit 5k its like hitting a wall.

Tidgy

Did you get a boost/arf graph?

ossett2k2

iTrader: (9)

Don't take this the wrong way as I'm not having a go at the mapper.
How long was spent on the remap?
What price do you get charged for the remap when you put an updated tmic&pipework on? Full remap or tweak?
I would have thought the standard hard plastic tmic pipe would take a bit more boost and not collapse,I'm certainly no expert tho so could be wrong
The wrx tmic itself is not the problem there tho so maybe just the pipe?

captainlip

this is the only other graph I got....

captainlip

spent about hour and half on it once he had it on the dyno. was charged £300 and the tweak will be £150. yeah problem I believe is the pipe but while im at it wont hurt it to put bigger STI TMIC on and induction kit of some sort. let the car breath more.

ossett2k2

iTrader: (9)

Also notice the run was done in 3rd gear,I know this wouldn't make a difference to your problem but most seem to do the dyno run in 4th.
Can anyone answer if 3rd gear is better,worse or no different when taking a pull on the dyno?

bustaMOVEs

iTrader: (31)

3rd is common for 5 speed and 4th for 6 speed

ossett2k2

iTrader: (9)

Tidgy

as above, 3rd on 5 speed, 4th on 6 speed.

ian.e

iTrader: (1)

I had a dyno graph looked exactly like that with a vf43 on a 2.1. Power levelled off about 4500 rpm. Made 325/380.Was told it wouldn't hold boost. Was running an STI top mount and a 3 port. Was a bit miffed, but when I drove it the torque made up for it, so left it as it was. Waste gate housing was a bit cracked. Swapped that but made no difference when tweaked.

captainlip

That doesnt sound promising, my wastegate has no cracks. dont get me wrong it shifts. ill try the TMIC and induction and see if we make any grounds towards 350

ian.e

iTrader: (1)

I wouldn't worry too much about the headline number, yours is making over 320 at 4500. Just shift early and drive it on the torque.

captainlip

true but if you do want to get abit giddy over 5k its got nothing there. plus ill be shifting gears left right and center if im changing before 5000rpm be nice to be able to hold the boost abit longer.

bustaMOVEs

iTrader: (31)

Don't get stuck up on numbers, your running about 1.35bar then drops to under 1 bar so I'd say it's very good for that boost, Andy generally maps to about 1.5 bar so obviously something wrong hence the rapid drop.
You gain massive torque though but just don't last for long and drops but the hp is holding to end just about it's just the torque that drops
If that was at 1.5 bar then I'd say your into 350 territory,