Sensible Spec For Perfect Road Car?
 

Looking at modding my 05 Widetrack STI into a really driveable well rounded car without too much focus on outright speed, low rideheight, or figures etc.

So far on my list is......

Whiteline ALK, (is the roll centre correction kit the same thing?),
Uprated rear ARB (what size?),
Front to match?
Ive got coilovers to go on,
Im running uprated Godspeed discs and pads,
Bridgestone RE070 tyres (Or whatever the standard tyres are, like them so far)
Aftermarket Steering wheel with spacer to bring it closer (personal taste, I love it)
Gearshift extension (again, personal taste)
AS Performance shifter bushes to fit,
Probably a 6spd shortshifter in the next 6 months or so.
A new air freshener

Engine wise, I'm standard aside from the PPP, so Im looking to get the perfect setup without a rebuild. Again, id rather have driveability than lag, and a higher peak BHP figure.

Im thinking...
Full decat,
Ported headers & up-pipe,
I want to stay TMIC but will go to FMIC if I have too.
Will the PPP fuel pump cope?
Injectors?
What turbo? I have a friend of a friend who can get hold of turbos for me, but possibly only certain brands, so if I cant get an SC36 or whatever, is there an alternative by another brand?

I know this has probably been covered elsewhere but it might be a good idea to have all the answers in one place?

Are there any must have mods Ive missed?

Cheers!

Jim

put a 2.5 in it ;)

I used to have an 05 STI - with PPP

It was remapped by Andy F to approx 340bhp and similar torque.
Everything else on the engine/fuel system was standard.
Forget full decat, you'll only gain 10-15 bhp, and will have MOT issues because of that, therefore was of time/money in my view.

It drove great at that level too

The OP said perfect road car..... not one that will bash it brains out, drink oil and need a rebuild to ensure it approaches 2ltr reliablility. ;)

I said I didn't want to rebuild didn't I? Lol

Thanks mate that's good to know - would the extra 15bhp not have been worth it? Would it not change the drivability?

2.0 will never be as good as a 2.5, ok built right. but if you relay want a cracking road car then think about rebuild, i went from 2.0 to 2.5 and the power delivery is very very different, you cant beat the low down grunt the 2.5 has ;)

I'd love buckets I torque but I can't justify the massive increase in costs rebuilding as a 2.5

I would put Nitron coilovers on and some nice AP 6 pots then a turbo that can handle 450bhp so you can safely map the car to 420'ish job done:)

Harvey Ported headers and up pipe (wrapped) fuel pump for peace of mind, then speak to Braveheart STI off here about turbo choice for the characteristics your after, ported billet td 05 should make a decent road car.

I'm headed in a similar direction, just struggling with turbo choice i'm thinking billet td04 only good for 320/330 bhp but should make it pretty rapid up to 100 mph and stay on song in 3rd 50 to 90 mph which is where my quick driving takes place around these mountain roads, I generally never go over a ton or rag it in 1st or 2nd so don't see the point of a huge turbo for me it's all about mid range and what it does from 2.3k rpm up to 5.5 /6k rpm max.

Sell up and buy an Evo.... Job done.

Sell the evo & buy a R8 - job done ( again) :)

Evo lacks personality.... Just like most of the owners ;)

+1

Couldn't agree more! I went from a 2.0 Blob STI to a 2.5 full forged WR1 and wow I just love the 490ft lb! Down low it almost feels like a n/a car! Very minimal lag.

I've got a 2005 STI too, I decided on a Harvey Smith TD05 20G which is currently away for a billet compressor wheel conversion.

Matching the turbo will be a Harvey Smith 3bolt Up-pipe, RCM headers, and an FPR.

I'm unsure whether or not to do the following:

Change up to 3" exhaust (currently 2.5" full decat)
Go FMIC
Go for bigger injectors

Bad coilover choice is the #1 way to make your car a terrible road car, so do that carefully. I'm awaiting arrival of some KW Variant 3 which I read/hear are the best option for keeping ride quality and excellent handling.

Also, I fitted solid linkage bushings and the increase in NVH in the cabin was (imo) unbearable. Cannot complain with how awesome the gear shifting felt, but I had to return to OEM rubber eventually as the noise made my gearbox sound like a bag of spanners, quite embarrassing when carrying passengers!

Nobody else seems to have had that issue though, so I'm very likely to be a one-off!

Serious discussion here:

Do you think the potential reliability problems, oil usage, worse mpg, additional cost (which is going to be in the region of £4k just for the bottom end rebuild) equates to "never be as good"?

Whilst I am probably one of the few on here that did the 2ltr, then 2.5 and now back to a 2ltr. For very very good reasons and I strongly suspect I'll never go back to a 2.5 again.

You can't polish a turd..... but of course you can get it rebuilt and roll it in glitter. ;)

I have a ****load of torque for a road car and if I think it's too laggy, I use something called a gearbox. :lol1:

It's obviously horses for courses, but to suggest that a 2ltr will never be as good as a 2.5ltr is highly subjective to say the least.

A standard 2ltr can take some serious abuse, be utterly reliable and cost very little (in comparison) to achieve the same kind of power levels. Are these key elements really worth a lazier driving style and slightly more torque of a 2.5?

If my engine was to blow it's load it would be a 2.1 going in..... all the benefits of the 2ltr reliability and strength, together with increased torque and spool. Best of both worlds imo.

Im not gonna deny that out the box the 2.5 is an unreliable dog, however, built right those problems get sorted. To say its a turd is pretty harsh, up to 450bhp they are fine, how many cars can take 2 or 3 times their design power? Even the 2.0 has suffered failures when pushed.

Bearing in mind i have a 2.5, What reliability issue? (touch wood, pats head, i havn't just jinxed it lol) what oil consumption problem? and my 2.5 gets better mpg than my classic did :lol1:, so sounds like you may need a new engine builder ;).

and as for not taking abuse, heres one of the early built 2.5's that was built way before they were available in the uk models.


and it was 4 years old at that point and had some serious abuse over its life span, i'm sure you know the car ;)

2.1 will never have as good low down grunt as a 2.5, no replacement for displacement ;) if your gonna go to the n'th degree then 2.35 beats the 2.1 hands down, however were not talking about getting mega power here, were talking road use, where low down get up and go is where you want it, not the 'nothing' while you drop it a cog and wait for the 2.0 to spool up the turbo.

I do agree its very subjective and a toss up between costs, use and what your aiming for and also what your opinion is (short ratio box's is a good example, some folks like them, some prefer the long ratios), but for a fast road car a 2.5 pushing between 400 and 450 is the ideal i would say.

Personally I would stop about there

Haha!

Thanks guys, some properly good comments. I think sadly the con (ie cost) outweighs the relative gains (torque) but to say that I had my sights set on high "sub-400bhp" I think perhaps a well sorted turbo setup could get sufficient torque?
Exciting stuff! Can I stay topmount? I don't like the DIY aspect of the FMIC.

Also, cheers SteveBT I'd forgot about brakes!

Tidgy,
The 2.5ltr design is fundamentally flawed. Shoehorning 2.5ltrs into a 2ltr block by reducing cylinder wall thickness and integrity is fatal. No engine builder can overcome that one, albeit the use of pegging or close deck inserts certainly helps.

Don't get me wrong, the ultimate torque and driveability of a 2.5 can be immense. Remember my old SPEC "road car" with the 2.5 in blitzed all others at the final of ScoobySprint, including some sorted full bore race cars... but you don't get anything for nothing. I abused that engine, like no other engine I have had and it took it all without grenading itself. Although it was hardly a fit and forget set-up..... but that is talking apples and oranges within the context of this thread.

However, talking about low down grunt..... have you seen John Felsteads 2.1 with a hybrid twinscroll? Sorry mate, but it leaves your torque graph for dust.

Mine is no slouch either for meagre standard 2ltr and compared with your bigger capacity and smaller turbo, mines hardly laggy.

https://i694.photobucket.com/albums/...ps2615c942.jpg

https://i1227.photobucket.com/albums...oject/bob8.jpg

I'm not presenting this to say who's is better, but to provide some form of comparison.

Like any set-up..... if done right with good performing ancillaries, 2 and 2.1's are hardly crippled.

To me the reliability and minimal costs makes absolute common sense..... if there ever is common sense in the world of tuning. But for someone who has been there and done it.... it makes perfect sense to me.

Biggest mistake I ever made!!! Had a 400bhp Evo 8 that struggled to keep up with a mates standard STi type RA!! Found the Evo boring to drive, probably why every Evo I have owned have only ever lasted a few months at a time!!


How do you rate the Evo against your old Focus RS??? Thought the mk2 Focus RS was a great car, would have one over any Evo!!!:)

yeah that graphs flawed as an actualy figure though matey, or my car lost 500rpm spool in 6 months lol, back to back it shows the gains, but the gearing is wrong on both of the runs, wasn't found till after when i compared it back to some previous runs. looks like the lower laggier result is comparable with the old version of the turbo so its roughly about 500 rpm sooner than the graph shows. Im still runnign standard headers as well so would bea nice gain there if i switched it, i know JF's is runnign a very mod heavy setup, assumign that graph is from that time of course.

the graph below was from before it got mapped on the dyno, it got pulled back on the road test due to detting hence the lopwer result, top mount was struggling to cope :( despite some folks saying its fine at 400 ;)

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...ps03bf97d6.jpg

I realy need to get it back on the dyno again and see what it actualy does lol

If your aiming for low power try looking at different gear ratios, I had my old classic with RA gearing and it was mental with both tdo4 and tdo5 as spool was just :D:D

:thumb:

I found coilover choice to be more important than anything else aswell, tried BC br's, took them off and put the standard suspension back on.

for fast road i would sugest coilovers are not worth bothering with, kyb agx and a decent set of lowering springs are a much better option imo

this is a good road car


Attachment 15709

2.5, forged & pegged, Grimmspeed TMIC, MD321T billet, W/M injection

Trev

What's on your list sounds good.
I wouldn't bother on the "thinking" list.
Where did you get your extended gear lever from? I am also interested in one.

Meant to say high "sub 400" lol as in 380ish. Corrected it now - I'm already at 300!