....who the f**k gives these idiots this kind of technology?! [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

...oh - it was us. [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

some c**t on the tellie is worrying about job losses if we stop selling them arms :confused:

surely that's better than a nuclear f**kin' war?!?! [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

stoopid TW@TS!!!

If we dont then someone else WILL!!

At least if those same arms are used against us - we will then have the antidote!!

I know a little about weapons

Pete

"If we dont then someone else WILL!!" - true, don't make ir right though!! :(



"I know a little about weapons" - you're scaring me now mate!! ;):p

...not as much as a nuclear exchange though... :(

Its a slim possibility but I think the "little" he knows might scare you a great deal more :(

Sadly, once something has been invented you can't uninvent it.
Personally I'm surprised one's not been used in anger since 1945.

Once a country uses a nuke, then unless it's very existence was at threat then it'll be a pariah to the rest of the world, sanctions, explusion from the UN, trade embargo's etc. Thus the effects on the country that used it will be extensive.

What's more concerning is that a country that does'nt care about being expelled from the global community or a group of terrorists get hold one. I do doubt if Bin Laden had one he'd use it though, even he is not that daft(quite the opposite I fear)

Neil - unless it was America...

I doubt it America would unilaterally use a nuclear weapon. Sept 11th would have been the closest they would have got in recent times, but even then it was'nt really a serious option.

the 'arms' under discussion are Hawk training jets - the first of which are not scheduled to be deliver until 2004.

More worrying recently has been the supply of stinger missles to various 'freedom fighters' by the americans around the world - it is widely known that the IRA had some of these - as did the Mujahaddin (sp) - these are now in use by the taliban.

Similar story for land mines and some anti tank weapons. The nuclear technolgy they have is fairly limited I doubt very much they will use it - mutually assured destruction has been a deterrant for nearly 50 years - I think it is still relevant.

Sadly, I don't think we can rely on MAD to keep peace in the Middle East. Possibly in the India/Pakistan thing (after all, that's really a fight over territory) but with religious wars the participants think they're ascending to a higher place after death -- thus their own death (and those of their people) is irrelevant.

Basically, religious nutters + nuclear weapons = recipe for disaster.

hhmmmmm- i wonder? the "nutters" have been around a lot longer than us or the yanks.

how long did the US have H bombs before they used it? not as long as the "nutters" have had them? and they havent used them.

i think "they like to be dead so they will happily kill everyone" is a bit naive.

Tiggs

bush on sep12th was more scary than this lot (i hope! )

Don't think I actually said "they like to be dead" ;)
I would rather have the nuclear weapons in the hands of countries whose primary goal is looking after their people, or even conquering countries, than people whose primary goal is religious martyrdom. OTOH, I'm also not happy about complete numpties (Reagan, Bush) or people who are Bush's stool pigeon (Blair...) having them either.

carl, my mistake ;)


Tiggs

ps- dont think dying is their primary goal though !

it's true to say that these middle eastern people have been around a long time - but what's that got to do with anything. Ok, they've been around, but they've been slotting each other for years! I'm glad that we have a nuclear arsenal, I really beleive that it keeps us safe from harm.

okay, me is cynical - but I work for the no2 defence co in the world, and we build half of this crap!

the only real way of taking power away from these chaps is through technology - no, I'm not off my head - a technology that replaces the 'black gold' - OIL. as soon as we no longer need oil, that region will cease to exist...

"but they've been slotting each other for years!"

errr- so have we (the west)


i think the middle east existed before oil as well? my historys not bang up to date so i may be wrong ;)

Tiggs

The oil has been there for a very long time you know ;)

i don't really think the west have been so violent, for so long... with such an oppressive culture to back that up.

my point re Oil was that before it was needed, nobody gave a crap about that region, and that's really what we need to aim for - taking the significance away will hopefully mean leass violence toward everybody.

and yes, the west have been slotting each other for a while, but most often, it's a stand-up fight, that involves armies and navies... not people sat at the desk on a wednesday morning typing a fax as a multi-tonne aircraft lands in the next cubicle.

I just got some horrific "Dilbert" sketch playing in my head, then... :o

dont think the trade centre was attacked by "the east" anymore than british pubs were attacked by the "west" during the IRA problems?

T

I think you'll find that a large amount of these troubles are fundementally based on differences in culture and religion (the latter being a major cause). The oil issue simply exacerbates the problem - so they're oil-fired disputes (pun intended :D).

boom boom! (in a basil brush way! )

RE: India Vs. Pakistan

I think that you can trace the cause of this particular conflict back to the British pulling out of the sub continent and drawing up a load of borders that paid little attention to cultural and religious differences. The same can be said across Africa too.

Steve

I wondered how long it would take before the blame came back to colonial britain.

no offense mate but this is bulLsh*t.

We Democratically handed over India without a shot fired or a war in a very mature way. The then plebiscite and right to self determination formed the country of pakistan. since then things have a been a steady kind of unease

Kashmir has been a disputed terriotory for a long time.

Nothing to do with colonialism. Incidentally both then Indian army and Pakistan army have an officer class which is largely trained at sandhurst. Many of the field officers know each other from training. these people are unlikely to rush into a full blown war - the current situation is sabre rattling.

Guys

Well, if they do go nuclear :o remember that you will be safe & sound watching the fireworks on TV. Their current tech only allows their missiles to go 180miles approximately :)

All I can say is Thank god they haven't got there hands on Octane Booster otherwise those missiles might achieve more miles to the gallon. If the do, we will be in deep sh1t :(

incidentally, the fallout from their type of ordnance could theoretically travel the globe at high altitude on the known air currents...

just a thought...

innit, everyone said were all gonna die when iraq kicked off with their scuds but Israel was the extreme limit of the scud range and even then it only had a teaspoon of fuel left when it landed. thats why the scuds that failed to detonate also didnt explode cos they had nothing left to burn.
astraboy.

If it "kicks off" over there.You can be sure it will "go off" here on the streets........

It could be the end of the corner shop as we know it :) ;)



[Edited by Zagangaphile - 5/28/2002 6:16:08 PM]

If Pakistan and India start fistycuffs you can remove Bradford from the map - just get a lighter, find Bradford on your roadmap and hold the lit lighter under it ............. watch what happens!!

dsmith - I am so, so glad that you know more than me about weapons then!! ;)

Pete

pete, maybe you can educate me on something you posted earlier?

What antidote do we posses that can combat having your neutrons stripped from your body by a nuclear weapon or being splatered by the shock wave? That must be one hell of a jab. :D

Well as long as they are fighting one another, whether on the streets of New Delhi, Karachi, Oldham or Bradford they [fundamentalists] are not plotting against 'The civilised Western world'.

Any problems over here should result in deportation if found guilty. Not that it will in our namby-pamby nanny state.

TONY