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Originally Posted by Hawkeye D
(Post 10984402)
The header tank and radiator levels are completely full.
I'm wondering though if I can see tiny tiny metal particles in the coolant. I may be wrong, but looking with a bright torch, I think maybe I can. I am concerned. The expanding fluid has only 1 place to vent Your overflow tank |
Originally Posted by Hawkeye D
(Post 10984472)
I so can't get my head around this :
... If it's an "air lock" where can it be trapped or "locked"? My understanding is this - the air lock can be trapped at any point where there is a bend in the system etc. The air can be forced along but will still resist any movement along or downwards as it will always try to move to the highest point it can. It would take a huge movement of coolant to push the air out. However, air will expand massively at temperature therefore pushing coolant out of the system. I would have expected it to be "sucked" back up when the system cooled down though. Is there any way you can get a pic of a sample of the coolant from the reservoir? |
the particles are most likely bits of hg
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Originally Posted by thenewgalaxy
(Post 10984505)
Please someone correct me if I'm wrong or elaborate if my version is short of detail.
My understanding is this - the air lock can be trapped at any point where there is a bend in the system etc. The air can be forced along but will still resist any movement along or downwards as it will always try to move to the highest point it can. It would take a huge movement of coolant to push the air out. However, air will expand massively at temperature therefore pushing coolant out of the system. I would have expected it to be "sucked" back up when the system cooled down though. Is there any way you can get a pic of a sample of the coolant from the reservoir? Yes, will try. That's also my theory, why isn't the water / coolant being sucked back into the system, bringing the level back to normal again? |
Any thing said on a forum with the limited info is just speculation mate. Take it to a garage and get a sniff test done.Any decent garage can do this and most will not charge. This test will confirm whether you have head gasket issues or not.
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Originally Posted by chopperman
(Post 10984540)
Any thing said on a forum with the limited info is just speculation mate. Take it to a garage and get a sniff test done.Any decent garage can do this and most will not charge. This test will confirm whether you have head gasket issues or not.
Sorry about all this guys!!! |
Originally Posted by Hawkeye D
(Post 10984580)
I've heard lots of times about the sniff test, but what do they do? How is the test carried out?
Sorry about all this guys!!! |
Here is a sample.
Doesn't look dark, but there is a very very (and I mean very) slight residue that floats on the top. It disperses when I put my finger on it, and the particles can just about be seen : [IMG]http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/w...ps22b124ab.jpg[/IMG] |
Looks ok to me. Little particles could just be crap from inside the block, rad ,hoses ect.
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Originally Posted by jazzyjembreaze
(Post 10984503)
The header tank should not be completely full )
The expanding fluid has only 1 place to vent Your overflow tank |
Originally Posted by chopperman
(Post 10984621)
Looks ok to me. Little particles could just be crap from inside the block, rad ,hoses ect.
I was thinking that too, almost just crap washing through the block etc. Would the sample be seriously minging if HG had blown? I took the sample from the overflow tank. It's weird because despite me bricking it right now, the car is running like it always has done....I think, but I am worried nevertheless. I kept an eye on the PSi3 today, and the temps go down to 85-86 after a short blast, then creep up again to around 88-92 degrees when put into 6th gear at 70 mph. I can't find anything in the handbook regarding the high level in the overflow tank. Can / does the system take coolant from there as well as push coolant into it? |
Originally Posted by chopperman
(Post 10984540)
Any thing said on a forum with the limited info is just speculation mate. Take it to a garage and get a sniff test done.Any decent garage can do this and most will not charge. This test will confirm whether you have head gasket issues or not.
Where abouts in the country do you live?
Originally Posted by thenewgalaxy
(Post 10984427)
I feel for the OP as those pics look to me as if there is something dark in the coolant -
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Originally Posted by DeweyAXD
(Post 10984648)
+1 for this. It's a horrible feeling 'not knowing' and as helpful as everyone will be in here the only way you will get peace of mind or confirmation is to take it in. Ideally to somewhere that knows Scoobs.
Where abouts in the country do you live? I'm wondering if I do have an air lock, if it's the bottom hose that may be leaking (residue there and on cambelt cover) but having said that, there is coolant on the top bracket of the cooling fan too. |
Originally Posted by Hawkeye D
(Post 10984627)
I was thinking that too, almost just crap washing through the block etc.
Would the sample be seriously minging if HG had blown? I took the sample from the overflow tank. It's weird because despite me bricking it right now, the car is running like it always has done....I think, but I am worried nevertheless. I kept an eye on the PSi3 today, and the temps go down to 85-86 after a short blast, then creep up again to around 88-92 degrees when put into 6th gear at 70 mph. I can't find anything in the handbook regarding the high level in the overflow tank. Can / does the system take coolant from there as well as push coolant into it? |
Black bits indicate the HG breaking down yes, it's a common observation on the Hawks :) Also the HG deterioration is gradual in most 2.5 cases due to the slight expansion/lifting when under load/boost but running fine under normal conditions. You might get away with running it this way for months but it will get worse and it will happen :)
What boost are you running ? VF43's like to crack too if you really want to scare yourself :) |
May be of little use but I found the video I took when i was diagnosing my car. If I recall this was from cold. You can see the water movement and bubbles in there. As it warms up and when i put the hot air vents on the bubbles got a lot more visible.
Like I say it may be of little value but anything to help out having been there! |
Originally Posted by 53
(Post 10984658)
Black bits indicate the HG breaking down yes, it's a common observation on the Hawks :) Also the HG deterioration is gradual in most 2.5 cases due to the slight expansion/lifting when under load/boost but running fine under normal conditions. You might get away with running it this way for months but it will get worse and it will happen :)
What boost are you running ? VF43's like to crack too if you really want to scare yourself :) Spec D's are prone to HG failing as they used the earlier type gasket, but many have covered high mileage without issue. |
Originally Posted by 53
(Post 10984658)
Black bits indicate the HG breaking down yes, it's a common observation on the Hawks :) Also the HG deterioration is gradual in most 2.5 cases due to the slight expansion/lifting when under load/boost but running fine under normal conditions. You might get away with running it this way for months but it will get worse and it will happen :)
What boost are you running ? VF43's like to crack too if you really want to scare yourself :) Tiny metallic looking particles, but no black bits? |
The coolant looks fine to me, I have to say I didn't inspect it too closely when I first noticed it going up but it was disgusting when mine actually went pop. Black grungy frothy stuff.
Of course you may have very early symptoms of HG failure but there could be another reason for this. A sniffer test would be a good thing ASAP! Regardless of outcome here it might be a good call to forge if you intend to keep the car... |
generally you wont get the white foamy sludge that can occur on other cars (this only happens if the HG fails into an oil way and hence the gloop, but generally Subaru's fail cylinder to Water Jacket)
IMO get yourself 2x new rad caps as first (and cheap) potential fix and monitor closely the water levels after this alyn |
Doesn't sound like a classic head gasket failure to me. I doubt its an airlock either they usually cause the heater to blow cold cos that's where the circulation isn't - if you see what I mean.
Do as Merlin suggests Set the level correct and make sure it remains so over a few days Then give a good hard blast for says 10-15 miles and see what happens if the temp goes up get out of it and cool everything down. If nothing happens, stop worrying and looking for things that aren't there. The head gaskets are triple layer laminate steel and even though they 'blow ' they rarely disintegrate, so any metal particles in the water are probably not head gasket particles. Call me to talk it all through if you wish. David APi 01926 614333 |
Tonight I syphoned out from the overflow tank down to just below the max mark. This was whilst virtually cold, and the levels under the header tank cap and radiator cap were up to the necks.
Took her out for good beating, temps seemed to behave. Cooled it down, got home, and the coolant temp slowly rose to from 90-91 degrees to 96 degrees where the cooling fan cut in, taking it down to 86 degrees. Then switched off the engine. I checked the level in the overflow tank and the level has risen a good inch or so. Will check levels again tomorrow when stone cold. Last nights sample, and what I took out tonight is (so far!) 750 ml. |
When I wasn't sure, putting an extension hose from the overflow to the windscreen confirmed it when on boost.
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^
Yep , that's a good diagnosis of heads lifting under boost |
Checked the level in the overflow tank this morning when stone cold.
It had dropped the inch or so that it had risen last night. |
Ever thought since you havent ever put any in, its just how much was put in there? Why dont you syphone it out to the line and see how you get on then?
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Originally Posted by Hawkeye D
(Post 10986399)
Checked the level in the overflow tank this morning when stone cold.
It had dropped the inch or so that it had risen last night. Keep in touch, David |
Originally Posted by thenewgalaxy
(Post 10983060)
When my Spec D blew up (HG, ring land was also found to have gone) I noticed the following:
Several months beforehand the coolant level kept rising a long way after switching the engine off and letting it sit for a few hours. If I looked when the engine was warm the level would go down a lot. The oil consumption was always high but it got ridiculous - over a litre every 1000 miles. Phoned a dealer in Warwickshire who had previously serviced the car under warranty who told me not to worry. Then one day a few weeks later I noticed the heating didn't work, coolant bottle was nearly empty. The car was nearly due a service so I took it in and it was serviced by a specialist close to me in the North West. Two weeks later, On the way home that day I was driving along the motorway and I remember hearing a thump from under the bonnet. After coming off the motorway I noticed the temperature guage rising so limped a couple of miles home. Looked in the coolant tank. The level had come up and forced the coolant tank open. There was oil in there and foamy coolant. On inspecting the exhaust there was a thick layer of white residue all over the exhaust. I took it in and was told that it had a head gasket failure and on stripping the engine number four piston looked like it had never had ringlands on it! I had the engine forged and made the decision to sell the car about six months later as it never felt right after the rebuild. Budget for £2k - I would get the work down now just in case you suffer any head damage when it goes. |
Should have also mentioned that Slowboy had three Spec D failures including mine in a single week!
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the 2.5 really is a quality bit of subaru engineering :lol1:
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