Any advice appreciated
Hello all,
I am after some advice on engine mapping. My car was bought a few months ago, and when I bought it the head gasket had blown. The garage where I bought it paid for the repairs which were done at a Subaru dealership. It had head and block skimmed, new gasket, new clutch, new ACL big end bearing amongst other small details. The previous owner had it remapped (after fitting exhaust, headers, fuel pump etc) Now that it is all fixed, I’ve taken it to get put on the dyno to see how the car is running. Essentially I am happy with the car’s performance and I’m not really interested in up-rating it anymore. I just want to make certain it doesn’t try and blow a gasket again, in the near future. When it was on the dyno, the mapper I used said the map was 99% spot on, but he thought it was running lean by approx 4%. He said if he owned the car, he would have this put right asap. Unfortunately, he is not prepared to simply adjust this value in the map, even though it’s possible. Rather he would want to charge to have the whole thing re-mapped again. TBH I could do without that cost at the moment. The car is not suffering from early det (althought its close apparently). I want to know what people think of running lean by about 4% - is it something to be majorly worried about, or something that isn’t a massive issue. CAR is 2.5 2006 WRX STI Type Uk Running at 325BHP chocolate pistons replaced with Forged Cosworth pistons if that makes a difference to opinion on lean running. |
Originally Posted by blackhawksti
(Post 10875573)
Hello all,
I am after some advice on engine mapping. My car was bought a few months ago, and when I bought it the head gasket had blown. The garage where I bought it paid for the repairs which were done at a Subaru dealership. It had head and block skimmed, new gasket, new clutch, new ACL big end bearing amongst other small details. The previous owner had it remapped (after fitting exhaust, headers, fuel pump etc) Now that it is all fixed, I’ve taken it to get put on the dyno to see how the car is running. Essentially I am happy with the car’s performance and I’m not really interested in up-rating it anymore. I just want to make certain it doesn’t try and blow a gasket again, in the near future. When it was on the dyno, the mapper I used said the map was 99% spot on, but he thought it was running lean by approx 4%. He said if he owned the car, he would have this put right asap. Unfortunately, he is not prepared to simply adjust this value in the map, even though it’s possible. Rather he would want to charge to have the whole thing re-mapped again. TBH I could do without that cost at the moment. The car is not suffering from early det (althought its close apparently). I want to know what people think of running lean by about 4% - is it something to be majorly worried about, or something that isn’t a massive issue. CAR is 2.5 2006 WRX STI Type Uk Running at 325BHP chocolate pistons replaced with Forged Cosworth pistons if that makes a difference to opinion on lean running. If it was mapped previously it should have a license and you should only have a tweak done and that is cheaper. Open source mapping is different and should cost less. Hope this helps. |
if its alreday mapped then warrenty fubar already anyway. im surprised they didnt sort the map out when they rebuilt it.
I'd go back to the garage and speak to them about it, if its under warrenty and not running right they need to put it right. |
the car appears to be running absolutely fine. the only reason i had the dyno done was to check it wasnt over-boosting or running lean, or anything that would harm the longevity of the engine. Car is not under warranty as its 6 years old. The engine rebuilders were a subaru dealership, so they dont have a dyno machine. Essentially they did their job properly. I just want to see what people think of the current map. I.e will running a little lean cause me any major problems?
|
the trooper - thanks for the advice.
The originally mapper was based in the midlands and mapped it for a previous owner. I took it to a local dyno in the north-west. The original mappers are miles away the dyno guys nearest me wont tweak in on open source, only do a full re-map themselves..... |
mpas are car/engine specific, so if you change the engine it may well affect the map.
if the warrenty is void anyway then get it mapped. The mapper may well not be able to get access to the map thats on it so may require a full map. It should be about £350 ish cos it will already have a license on it. |
p.s. lean is very very bad on scoob's. not sure if thats enough to be to dangerous levels, but they like to run with plenty of fuel
|
Originally Posted by blackhawksti
(Post 10875573)
Hello all,
I am after some advice on engine mapping. My car was bought a few months ago, and when I bought it the head gasket had blown. The garage where I bought it paid for the repairs which were done at a Subaru dealership. It had head and block skimmed, new gasket, new clutch, new ACL big end bearing amongst other small details. The previous owner had it remapped (after fitting exhaust, headers, fuel pump etc) Now that it is all fixed, I’ve taken it to get put on the dyno to see how the car is running. Essentially I am happy with the car’s performance and I’m not really interested in up-rating it anymore. I just want to make certain it doesn’t try and blow a gasket again, in the near future. When it was on the dyno, the mapper I used said the map was 99% spot on, but he thought it was running lean by approx 4%. He said if he owned the car, he would have this put right asap. Unfortunately, he is not prepared to simply adjust this value in the map, even though it’s possible. Rather he would want to charge to have the whole thing re-mapped again. TBH I could do without that cost at the moment. The car is not suffering from early det (althought its close apparently). I want to know what people think of running lean by about 4% - is it something to be majorly worried about, or something that isn’t a massive issue. CAR is 2.5 2006 WRX STI Type Uk Running at 325BHP chocolate pistons replaced with Forged Cosworth pistons if that makes a difference to opinion on lean running. |
yeh thats no problem. I'm away with work so cant do them until the weekend as they're at home. At the moment i only have the power/torque graphs. What graph is it called that shows how lean it is running (i.e fuel v air?) I will request these from the dyno man. He has all the info saved there.
Cheers, |
Yes afr.
Seems strange to specify its 4 % lean rather than in actual fueling Simon |
Originally Posted by Jolly Green Monster
(Post 10876036)
Yes afr.
Seems strange to specify its 4 % lean rather than in actual fueling Simon You don't think he's looked at l/v do you ? Because to come up with a % figure does seem odd ( too me anyway ) |
4% wouldn't need a remap anyway, the ecu will compensate
|
Originally Posted by dan-lincs
(Post 10876370)
4% wouldn't need a remap anyway, the ecu will compensate
it might remove a bit of timing if it dets but that wont stop it melting something, just encourage it. |
Originally Posted by dan-lincs
(Post 10876370)
4% wouldn't need a remap anyway, the ecu will compensate
But if he has only looked at the l/v snapshot it's not the whole picture , his dyno run will show , when he posts them |
Originally Posted by Jolly Green Monster
(Post 10876405)
not on boost it wont..
it might remove a bit of timing if it dets but that wont stop it melting something, just encourage it. Where else other than l/v would you get a % reading |
Originally Posted by toneh
(Post 10876410)
You're right mate it would , but some folk like to see a nice round 0
But if he has only looked at the l/v snapshot it's not the whole picture , his dyno run will show , when he posts them |
Originally Posted by toneh
(Post 10876427)
is not possible he could be running 4% at the lower end but going into o/l running richer , I know it's then deviating from the progression that may be expected , but is this possible
Where else other than l/v would you get a % reading of course if its rich in closed loop and removes fuel it will then be lean on boost... but thats kind of irrelavant as he isnt tuning it himself :) The fact remains its lean on boost. Simon |
Originally Posted by Jolly Green Monster
(Post 10876438)
it makes no odds if it is lean out the exhaust then the appearance afr is that it is lean.
of course if its rich in closed loop and removes fuel it will then be lean on boost... but thats kind of irrelavant as he isnt tuning it himself :) The fact remains its lean on boost. Simon |
Originally Posted by toneh
(Post 10876453)
How do we know it's lean on boost ?
Could try it at light throttle. Heres you graph for 95hp sir. Simon |
Originally Posted by Jolly Green Monster
(Post 10876467)
Generally speaking when you power run a car, you do it at full throttle :)
Could try it at light throttle. Heres you graph for 95hp sir. Simon Where has the guys mapper got the 4% figure I thought it would be from l/v not a calculated figure from a wot run Thus why I was saying is 4% may not be relevant at the higher end of the scale or o/l , or like you say A wot run I was under the understanding l/v is a good indicator to fueling progression but the fueling may not follow on with perfect accuracy |
lol
|
Originally Posted by KAS35RSTI
(Post 10876496)
lol
|
Originally Posted by toneh
(Post 10876502)
Glad you find it funny , it's giving me a headache lol
|
[QUOTE=addi monster;10876509]Thats why we pay our monies tony so we get power not a headache :thumb:[/QUOTE
Yeah that's fine addi , are you intent on bringing that into every mapping thread I post in ,has it crossed youre mind i maybe trying to learn or find somthing out I can soon retort with why do you pay you're mapper to tell you a perfectly useable rom is no good ? So I suggest we leave it there shall we ? |
[quote=toneh;10876522]
Originally Posted by addi monster
(Post 10876509)
Thats why we pay our monies tony so we get power not a headache :thumb:[/QUOTE
Yeah that's fine addi , are you intent on bringing that into every mapping thread I post in ,has it crossed youre mind i maybe trying to learn or find somthing out I can soon retort with why do you pay you're mapper to tell you a perfectly useable rom is no good ? So I suggest we leave it there shall we ? You bang on about whatever you want mate :thumb: My quote was mearly a truthfull one and not a dig, I also like reading and learning ;) |
[QUOTE=addi monster;10876538]
Originally Posted by toneh
(Post 10876522)
I nearly spat my beer all over my lap top then :lol1:
You bang on about whatever you want mate :thumb: My quote was mearly a truthfull one and not a dig, I also like reading and learning ;) Dig or not it had no relevance on this thread |
Originally Posted by toneh
(Post 10876492)
I'm lost now tbh Simon ,
Where has the guys mapper got the 4% figure I thought it would be from l/v not a calculated figure from a wot run Thus why I was saying is 4% may not be relevant at the higher end of the scale or o/l , or like you say A wot run I was under the understanding l/v is a good indicator to fueling progression but the fueling may not follow on with perfect accuracy I doubt the dyno operator would have gone into the ecu learn functions and quoted that as its kind of irrelevant as the important fuelling is the measurement out the exhaust.. you can get 99.99999% of the relevant info from a dyno run with detcans on and wideband.. ie. is it detting, is it running correct boost (amount, spool, level), is it producing correct power and torque, is the fueling safe. You can then go digging further with a laptop of course but unlikely tbh on a car that has come in for a power run and you can see that if there is something amiss it will be shown with a power run with det cans on. Simon |
[quote=toneh;10876551]
Originally Posted by addi monster
(Post 10876538)
If you're into telling the truth mate , why don't you get that thread back up you had deleted ? Dig or not it had no relevance on this thread Now back on track and sorry to the op :thumb: |
Originally Posted by Jolly Green Monster
(Post 10876566)
4% lean is a strange way to present it but also OP is new to this so it could have been told slightly differently.. its 0.4AFR, or it is 0.04lambda leaner.. very easy when being told something that means nothing to you and then come home and post on here slightly wrong wording.. no offense meant to op.
I doubt the dyno operator would have gone into the ecu learn functions and quoted that as its kind of irrelevant as the important fuelling is the measurement out the exhaust.. you can get 99.99999% of the relevant info from a dyno run with detcans on and wideband.. ie. is it detting, is it running correct boost (amount, spool, level), is it producing correct power and torque, is the fueling safe. You can then go digging further with a laptop of course but unlikely tbh on a car that has come in for a power run and you can see that if there is something amiss it will be shown with a power run with det cans on. Simon Same as you say why would you go into learning on a run I suppose all will become clear if the op posts his sheets Btw just missed you the other week , when you where at Jason's , gonna start using his rollers , hes only 1min from me and his w/b lol So there's gonna be no more slagging my dodgy methods lol |
[QUOTE=addi monster;10876574]
Originally Posted by toneh
(Post 10876551)
Threads get deleted for abuse ect, also if your refering to your little monkey he got exactly what he was asking for (the truth);)
Now back on track and sorry to the op :thumb: |
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